82210 réponses à ce sujet

[PMC65]

jtav wrote...

I thought the sex worked. It's a power play. I'm curious where things go from here.

Just read it and I thought that you stayed true to both characters ... even at end.

Looking forward to the next chapter.  



EDIT: Top of page ... pic added

Modifié par PMC65, 14 juillet 2011 - 06:18 .

[DoubleRussia]

I like Miranda alot, but to be honest the only thing keeping me romacning her is because all the other male LIs are too dull. Read Tali's Advance here at this link

http://www.fanfictio...1/Talis_Advance

[Jebel Krong]

cr: FairlyOddSez

[Ieldra]

whywhywhywhy wrote...
I was gonna say I support this thread until I read this:

*No objectifying ass shots. We like that Miranda is sexually experienced, but she is not a sex object.

*But we do want to see the femme fatale aspects described in the art book. Let her use her sex appeal as a weapon.

That's very contradicting.

It is not:

The ass shots in the LM briefing and in the first elevator are aimed at the player. There is no intention on Miranda's side to appear seductive. That's the "objectifying ass shots".

Compare with the elevator scene before you enter the O4 relay: Miranda walks away from you, then turns around and gives you the wink. Watch her movements. That's seductive. It's intentional on Miranda's part, and it's aimed at Shepard, and at the player only through identification with Shepard.

We object to the former and appreciate the latter.

As for the "femme fatale" aspect, we don't have that in the game at all. That would've been the case if Miranda's had aimed her charms at someone in order to accomplish a mission or personal objective or help with accomplishing a mission. For instance by using that seductive walk we see at the elevator while walking by a pair of guards in order to distract them and let Shepard and the second team member slip by undetected. Or if she had engaged someone in a conversation, charming with subtle movements and innuendo, only to steal a keycard from his pocket while his whole attention was on her (I would've loved to see that).

BTW, I have my suspicions about why Miranda doesn't show that aspect in the game: can you imagine the nerdrage among fans of a certain type had Miranda aimed her charms at someone else but Shepard, no matter that it would've qualified as hostile action? Even more had it happened before any hint of a romance between them? People get incredibly stupid when it comes to sex.

[Jebel Krong]

really like this one (Miranda's in the red):

cr: BlackLion310

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:40 .

[Ieldra]

DoubleRussia wrote...
I like Miranda alot, but to be honest the only thing keeping me romacning her is because all the other male LIs are too dull.

You notice that this is equivalent to "Miranda's is the most interesting romance for a maleShep".

I do not recommend the fanfic you linked.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

BTW, I have my suspicions about why Miranda doesn't show that aspect in the game: can you imagine the nerdrage among fans of a certain type had Miranda aimed her charms at someone else but Shepard, no matter that it would've qualified as hostile action? Even more had it happened before any hint of a romance between them? People get incredibly stupid when it comes to sex.

not only that, but anything like that is usually played on the part of the player, not npcs - like Samara's loyalty mission - for example (which comes closest).

didn't like the ass-shots myself, never did, but not sure of the merits of showcasing a "femme fatale" aspect in that way, either.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
I don't have hard evidence no, but I don't see why it should be automatically dismissed out of hand, because I find it hard to believe that Mr. Lawson would agree to have his 'success' (and by what measurable standard) further 'endangered' some 7 years after her birth.

Mr. Lawson probrably considered that an heir without biotic abilities was not an heir worth keeping. And it's less dangerous to place Miranda's fate in the hands of a skilled surgeon than to expose a one year old baby to element zero and fingers crossed, let's hope she grows eezo nodules and not tumors.

My point is that she was the pioneer of in-utero exposure. It was after the success of this that made the 1 year afterwards public announcement possible. Ie., 'Cerberus' did something highly unethical but it paid off, then eventually the Systems Alliance does and finally humanity.

You're miscalculating. The first publicly known exposure happened in 2151, but the telekinetic abilities were discovered in 2156. They were also very minor at that point, since bioamps and implants weren't known until after First Contact.
For a scenario where Miranda is intentionally exposed, not only would you need to move the "secret discovery" of telekinetic abilities back to 2149 at the least and the discovery of eezo back to 2142, but you'd need to posit that bioamps and implants, too, were secretly discovered before then. Without that, tere would've been no incentive for an intentional exposure.

That's going too far with the conspiracy. It all makes no sense.

I think it's easier for a male at least to take a rather abstract notion of a child prior to its birth because we don't start the bonding experience until after we hold a child in the first place. It's because of this 'abstract' that I can totally believe that her father would be more cavalier about experimenting on her.

After 7 years though; I find it hard to believe that he'd just authorize a risky (and largely unknown) procedure on his daughter, especially when she's already a 'part of his dynasty.'

As I said, as long as there no contradictions, there is always an infinite number of scenarios that fits any given set of evidence. Who said that Miranda was the only daughter living to an age of 8? Miranda said she was the only one kept - when exactly were the other daughters disposed of? For both your and my scenario, there is no conclusive evidence showing that exactly that is how Miranda got her biotics. However, you need to mangle the timeline beyond recognition, discounting widely recognized historical facts, and I need not. I think that's enough grounds for counting your scenario falsified unless further evidence manifests.

And btw, saying "it could've happened that way" is akin to that volus on the Citadel saying "she could've stolen it". Indeed, Lia'Vael could've stolen the chit and placed it in Marab's shop. But who in their right mind would believe that? In both cases, the evidence suggests otherwise. To make your scenario even remotely plausible, you don't just need to say "the official timeline could be a lie", but you need to show evidence suggesting that the official timeline does indeed lie with regard to the discovery of eezo and its effects. That's the difference conspiracy theorists usually fail to get.

Until further evidence manifests, I will count "Miranda got her biotics by surgery, using a procedure adapted from the krogan" as the only plausible and canon-compatible hypothesis anyone has come up with by now.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:30 .

[jtav]

I'm in the process of compiling a list of Miranda-centric fanfiction to add to the OP. My list so far:

Degrees of Inheritance by Elyvern Shepard/Miranda
Operation Forseti by Cpt.ShaneSchofield no pairing
Friendly Rivals by Dinah Lance no pairing - Miranda/Liara friendship
Recruitment by Dinah Lance Kaidan/Miranda
Veteran of the Psychic Wars by xahra99 Miranda/Jacob

Suggestions? Objections? I'n not including my own works or obviously abandoned stories

[anIrishman]

jtav wrote...

I'm in the process of compiling a list of Miranda-centric fanfiction to add to the OP. My list so far:

Degrees of Inheritance by Elyvern Shepard/Miranda
Operation Forseti by Cpt.ShaneSchofield no pairing
Friendly Rivals by Dinah Lance no pairing - Miranda/Liara friendship
Recruitment by Dinah Lance Kaidan/Miranda
Veteran of the Psychic Wars by xahra99 Miranda/Jacob

Suggestions? Objections? I'n not including my own works or obviously abandoned stories

Shane Schofield? Ice Station and the such?  

Loving the fanfic bro.

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...
You're miscalculating. The first publicly known exposure happened in 2151, but the telekinetic abilities were discovered in 2156. They were also very minor at that point, since bioamps and implants weren't known until after First Contact.
For a scenario where Miranda is intentionally exposed, not only would you need to move the "secret discovery" of telekinetic abilities back to 2149 at the least and the discovery of eezo back to 2142, but you'd need to posit that bioamps and implants, too, were secretly discovered before then. Without that, tere would've been no incentive for an intentional exposure.

That's going too far with the conspiracy. It all makes no sense.

While there isn't much point in continuing this conversation, the point is that the Prothean beacon jumped human technology forward 200 years. It's also known that the Prothean ruins on Mars was expressly set up to monitor and study humans. Considering the fact that the Prothean ruins was humanity's crash-course introduction into the study of Mass Effect technologies it therefore makes at least some sense that the Protheans had studied human reaction to eezo, why? For any number of reasons, from labour sources to any other reason. Your guess as to what the Protheans wanted to get from us (if any) is as good as mine.

Of course there was incentive for intentional exposure; the whole idea was to eventually develop more biotics, which fed into even more experiments to add capability to humanity's burgeoning biotic potential. It's why there was deliberate bombings over heavily crowded cityscapes, and that had to have been started somewhere. All I said was perhaps the truth of the matter (ie., understanding and developing of biotic capability )is that it started sooner than expected. Furthermore; bioamps aren't necessary to create the existence of biotics, it's to:
a) Make them manifest at degree's that are 'useful'
To 'automate' certain biotic abilities via muscular mnemoics (in other words; muscle memory). This is to help prevent fatigue mainly but also to speed the exercise up.  

And there is no need to 'at least' move the timeline back to 2149, Miranda was obviously eventually born (and experimented with), but understanding of human biotic potential could have started much sooner (depending of course, when the Mars Bermuda Triangle was penetrated, but remember that there were robotic explorers on the planet from at least 2088, and human explorers from at least 2103), especially since the relative short time it took to crack the 'language' of the Prothean's. Note; it took until the discovery of the Rosetta Stones to unlock Egyptian hieroglyphics, the successful cracking of an entirely alien language would surely have taken longer (Egyptian hieroglyphics was cracked by virtue of finding out what 'water' was if memory serves, but that's a terrestrial language, it would therefore be much harder in the Prothean case). 

Ieldra wrote...
 To make your scenario even remotely plausible, you don't just need to say "the official timeline could be a lie", but you need to show evidence suggesting that the official timeline does indeed lie with regard to the discovery of eezo and its effects. That's the difference conspiracy theorists usually fail to get.

What you have failed to get though Ieldra is that you don't have any 'evidence,' as you like to call it, you have the in-game codex. We also know however that the in-game Codex is written from an in-game perspective, and therefore at times it's incorrect. Case in point? The Codex entry for Sovereign and how it states it's a Geth ship. 

I call lie because of factors that I can not believe happening in a short period of time irl, let alone the ME universe which is supposed to mirror real life (ie., the quick formation of the Systems Alliance, the incredible speed of deciphering the Prothean language etc). I disbelieve your scenario because Mr. X is at foremost a business man, so I find it unlikely that he would be so willing to risk an uncertain medical procedure adapted from a Krogan medical practice (and need I remind you about the impressive regenerative capabilities of a Krogan, which the differences between a human and a Krogan should be obvious) upon a piece of his property whose been apparently acceptable already for the past 7 years.

And stop asking me to prove a negative

I feel the need to once again point out the obvious though; I love the idea of conspiracies within the ME universe, it just fills the universe with more tension imo, and honestly I like that tension to be in ME universe.

[Geeblerful]

I actully really hate miranda but that's just me.

[Golden Owl]

Geeblerful wrote...

I actully really hate miranda but that's just me.

That rather trollish and unnecessary Geeblerful.

[Ieldra]

@Arijharn:
The Codex is like real-world history: we have our recorded history which is the result of research and an unknown element of tampering for political reasons. Many events in recorded history could be wrong or the result of conspiracies, but we don't usually call them lies arbitrarily. If you make arguments about recorded history, you can't just *claim* some events are lies without a good reason, and as long as there is a significant consensus that the events are correct, they are used as reference points for other events, i.e. as evidence.
Even more so, the weight of the "established" history becomes stronger if several events combine to give you the same picture, particularly if they're far removed in time from each other.
I'm not asking you to prove a negative: I'm asking you for a convincing reason to distrust the dating of several events in the timeline as told by the Codex.

I agree that the timeline is ridiculously compressed in many places, but that's a global phenomenon, it affects all events from 2148 onwards. It's complete nonsense to think that humanity could go from a system-bound species to a galactic power within one generation. Not in economic output, not in population, not in military strength. If you can explain that in terms of a conspiracy theory, then I might follow you in the other thing as well. The prothean cache might give you a boost in technology of 200 years. But the other species have had thousands, and population and workforce doesn't just pop out of nothing. Unless humanity has used cloning on a gigantic scale, we must assume that the total human population isn't much higher than back in 2150.

As for Miranda and the surgery: Miranda has superior healing abilities and was therefore much more likely to survive the procedure than a regular human. As for her acceptability: of course she'd been acceptable without biotics before, because nobody knew of the telekinetic abilities triggered by eezo exposure before Miranda was 7 years old.

I get that you love conspiracies - and yes, there is something to the idea that human scientists have discovered the effects of eezo a few decades earlier and kept the knowledge secret. I even agree it would make for an interesting story to uncover such a plot, even though I don't think it fits the ME universe. Just don't ask me to believe that it's more plausible than the Surgery hypothesis. Because plainly it isn't.

[MisterJB]

Arijharn wrote...
I disbelieve your scenario because Mr. X is at foremost a business man,

Willing to spend millions of credits creating the perfect human being. Clearly, he's not all there.
As a business man, I mean.
 

so I find it unlikely that he would be so willing to risk an uncertain medical procedure

It's less uncertain than trifling around with eezo exposure. In the case of the medical procedure, Mr. Lawson would have detailed records about the effects and risks of said procedure and would leave Miranda's fate in the hands of skilled surgeons who most likely had experience with that type of operation.
Exposure is all about luck. Even by the time Miranda meets Shepard, humanity is still incapable of controling the effects of eezo exposure.
If Miranda is anything like her father, then we can be sure that Mr. Lawson wouldn't keave anything to luck.
 

and need I remind you about the impressive regenerative capabilities of a Krogan,

According to Miranda, she heals faster than a normal human. That is probrably why she survived the operation.
 

  upon a piece of his property whose been apparently acceptable already for the past 7 years.

Which would have become an incomplete creation as soon as it became known that human biotics were a possibility. Miranda is supposed to be perfect. When posed against people capable of lifting trucks with their minds...
It's hardly different from people who buy a new car even tough the old one works just fine.

jtav wrote...
Operation Forseti by Cpt.ShaneSchofield no pairing

Damn good fic. Maybe a problem or two with Miranda's characterization, some lines I don't see her saying but apart from that, good read.

Modifié par MisterJB, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:45 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It is not:

The ass shots in the LM briefing and in the first elevator are aimed at the player. There is no intention on Miranda's side to appear seductive. That's the "objectifying ass shots".

  I just think of it IRL if a woman had a outfit on similiar to miranda's with her type of body, guys would look, some might even stare.  So I don't have a problem with the shots, well their is one shot in the ship that bothered me but other then that I didn't care.  I spend more time trying to figure out why she walks like she does.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Compare with the elevator scene before you enter the O4 relay: Miranda walks away from you, then turns around and gives you the wink. Watch her movements. That's seductive. It's intentional on Miranda's part, and it's aimed at Shepard, and at the player only through identification with Shepard.

We object to the former and appreciate the latter.

I didn't feel that was seductive just basic flirting/teasing.  Seduction is more physical for me, subtle yet simple.

Ieldra2 wrote...
As for the "femme fatale" aspect, we don't have that in the game at all. That would've been the case if Miranda's had aimed her charms at someone in order to accomplish a mission or personal objective or help with accomplishing a mission. For instance by using that seductive walk we see at the elevator while walking by a pair of guards in order to distract them and let Shepard and the second team member slip by undetected. Or if she had engaged someone in a conversation, charming with subtle movements and innuendo, only to steal a keycard from his pocket while his whole attention was on her (I would've loved to see that).

I would have too.

Ieldra2 wrote...
BTW, I have my suspicions about why Miranda doesn't show that aspect in the game: can you imagine the nerdrage among fans of a certain type had Miranda aimed her charms at someone else but Shepard, no matter that it would've qualified as hostile action? Even more had it happened before any hint of a romance between them? People get incredibly stupid when it comes to sex.

I agree, and the image I got of fans outraged over it made me laugh pretty hard.

[Vertigo_1]

MisterJB wrote...

jtav wrote...
Operation Forseti by Cpt.ShaneSchofield no pairing

Damn good fic. Maybe a problem or two with Miranda's characterization, some lines I don't see her saying but apart from that, good read.

Agreed!  For once a non romance fanfic that involves her actions prior to ME2 (that is to say what the author thought those actions where...)
It also motivated me to start modding her the sniper rifle into the game

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

jtav wrote...
Operation Forseti by Cpt.ShaneSchofield no pairing

Damn good fic. Maybe a problem or two with Miranda's characterization, some lines I don't see her saying but apart from that, good read.

Agreed!  For once a non romance fanfic that involves her actions prior to ME2 (that is to say what the author thought those actions where...)
It also motivated me to start modding her the sniper rifle into the game

Yes, that's an excellent story. Probably my favorite Miranda story after Degrees of Inheritance. And me, too, it brought to realize how much better a Sniper Rifle fits her than an SMG.

@jtav:
I think you should include your stories "Persistence of Memory" and "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" in the lists.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 juillet 2011 - 03:49 .

[Geeblerful]

Golden Owl wrote...

Geeblerful wrote...

I actully really hate miranda but that's just me.

That rather trollish and unnecessary Geeblerful.

Apologies

[jtav]

@Ieldra I feel uncomfortable adding my own writing. Persistence may be added when done, but Portrait won't. I can't write Shep/Miranda.

[LuxDragon]

@Geeblerful

Most people that make a comment like that in a specific character thread are actually aware that they made a tasteless and thoughtless post to voice their thoughts to others (Which defines trolling), but it's incredibly rare to have someone apologize for it.

It's accepted.

[Runescapeguy9]

Yes, so please no more stupid retalliation posts. One person making a stupid comment does not deserve another.

@Geeblerful if you are reading this thread, I am not particularly fond of her either, but just posting that to agitate people is wrong. Please avoid doing this in the future...

apologies for going off topic.

[Ieldra]

Miranda commenting about Niftu Cal:

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Hello Fellow Mirimancers/Mirimaniacs Paragon, and Renegade......


Anything new?


@Ieldra 2 Lovely Profile Shot of Miri.:wub::wub:

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 14 juillet 2011 - 05:02 .

[goofyomnivore]

I have my suspicions about why Miranda doesn't show that aspect in the game: can you imagine the nerdrage among fans of a certain type had Miranda aimed her charms at someone else but Shepard, no matter that it would've qualified as hostile action? Even more had it happened before any hint of a romance between them? People get incredibly stupid when it comes to sex

Word, and it is a damn shame.

I've seen threads were people are upset/jealous about Jacob's presence and past relationship with her. And some go as far not to romance her just because of that. It is pretty ridiculous how fragile people's egos can be over fictional characters.

Or if she had engaged someone in a conversation, charming with subtle movements and innuendo, only to steal a keycard from his pocket while his whole attention was on her

That would of been wonderful to see. I kind of hope the DA:2 companion option on the dialogue wheel makes an appearance in Mass Effect. It would be nice to hand situations over to squadmembers, rather than Shepard being at the focal point of every conflict.

As for a femme fatale scene -- I would of like to seen Miranda charm Elias Kelham. Maybe catch him in the Darkstar Lounge flirt/give him a few drinks, and then get the tip on who he is going to assassinate.