82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

ThePinkFoxx wrote...
Fantastic! I have a few pieces of art I'm working on, but also a cosplay. Would anyone object to adding in a few photos of that when it's finished? 

Yes I strongly object!

Nah, I'm just kidding that would be awesome!

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 09 avril 2012 - 11:59 .

[Asakawa]

i'm working, i'm working I'll contribute! http://goo.gl/sbWIk (just me testing jing and photoshop while cleaning the spades card sketch =p)

[Asakawa]

ThePinkFoxx wrote...

Fantastic! I have a few pieces of art I'm working on, but also a cosplay. Would anyone object to adding in a few photos of that when it's finished? 

Awesome! looking forward to see more of your cosplays =D

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Yeah, it is what it is. And I'm still taking that statement as exaggeration.

Before ME3, rebuilding the Normandy was an extravagance, even for Cerberus.
Now, they have a fleet capable of leveling Omega and go toe to toe with an Alliance Fleet.
That money had to come from somewhere. What's the difference between ME2 and ME3 Cerberus?
Henry Lawson was not funding them. I'd say he lvies up to his reputation.

I don't think he was supposed to come off as omniscient at all. He came off as what the yahg are set up to be: genius bruisers. You say the individual suffered because of a lack of prior characterization. I say the individual was successfully used to exemplify a very intriguing new addition the world.

But the reveal of the indentity of the Shadow Broker, something people had been waiting for since ME1, is not the place to introduce a new addition to the ME universe. It was supposed to be shocking, I expected to go "Oh My God, I can't believe it was him/her/them all along!"
Instead I was left like: "What's a yagh?"

Yagh may not be supposed to be omniscient. But the Shadow Broker was and the Shadow Broker should not have been someone we had never before heard of.

And I disagree that another connection to established lore would've made it more interesting. Like with the Lawson example, which we'll get to, you can add as many connections as you want and the ultimate presentation still wouldn't be as exciting if it was a salarian. Because we're already used to salarians. They're old news. The yahg on the other hand are fresh and exciting and one-up just about every other race we've encountered.

Like I said above, the resolution of a long-standing plotline it is not the appropriate moment to introduce something completely different.
Also, I do believe you place far too much importance in what characters look like rather than what they are.

A personality that's barely there, and one that has to be spoon fed to us before hand. Ask a new player just coming into ME3 without playing the second game what Lawson's personality is? Chances are you'll only get a blank stare. Lawson was a meat sack that utterly failed to impress. His job could've been done by a Loki mech. Hold Oriana at gunpoint, let her go, get tossed out a window.

He most devinitively was not. Bioware at least tried to stay loyal to his description in ME2. Egocentric, manipulative and obssessed with control.
He did fail to impress but these traits are shown. Either through conversation or the videologs in Sanctuary. A loki mech couldn't have done that not to mention killing it wouldn't have freed Miranda.
The yagh, on the other hand, really has no personality. He is there just to introduce the yahg race and it was done at a horrible moment.

The underlined. You just agreed with me.

True.

And no I don't think one should be sacrificed for another. But you can get away with skimping or forgetting prior setup if you do a good presentation, whereas the opposite is not true.

I did not claim it was. But, even if a presention is wonderful, I still have the right to complain about a lack of a prior setup because that is also needed.

Hell (and I may blaspheme for saying this) but even the damn holokid, the bane of our existence, would've gotten a better reaction if his presentation had rocked our faces off. If instead of going "wtf why are we listening to some virtual half-pint spout some bull**** about synthetics?" we would've been blown back by some totally terrifying "super reaper" some people might've let it slide even if it came at us with the same bull**** logic. Presentation. Powerful stuff.

See, you do place far too much importance on how a character looks like.
If the words are the same, being talked to by a Super-Reaper or being talked to by the StarChild makes no difference. In fact, the StarChild was actually ingenious since it alludes to Shepard's guilt as represented by the Dead-Child. It actually has a much deeper meaning than just having Bob the Super-Reaper talk about Creators and Created.

Modifié par MisterJB, 10 avril 2012 - 12:05 .

[Vertigo_1]

MisterJB wrote...
But the reveal of the indentity of the Shadow Broker, something people had been waiting for since ME1, is not the place to introduce a new addition to the ME universe. It was supposed to be shocking, I expected to go "Oh My God, I can't believe it was him/her/them all along!"
Instead I was left like: "What's a yagh?"

Yeha that was a let down.  I get the feeling they decided on a yagh to do a few things:

Show off a cool new alien race!
that transitioned into a boss fight easily (his size and all)
which would end him and leave that position for someone else to take over (which always felt like it would happen)

If the Shadow Broker had been say Barla Von (to your "Oh My God, I can't believe it was him/her/them all along!" comment)...then what?

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 10 avril 2012 - 12:18 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Asakawa wrote...

i'm working, i'm working I'll contribute! http://goo.gl/sbWIk (just me testing jing and photoshop while cleaning the spades card sketch =p)

I love your art

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@CrutchCricket
Your banner makes me laugh so hard

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
Before ME3, rebuilding the Normandy was an extravagance, even for Cerberus.
Now, they have a fleet capable of leveling Omega and go toe to toe with an Alliance Fleet.
That money had to come from somewhere. What's the difference between ME2 and ME3 Cerberus?
Henry Lawson was not funding them. I'd say he lvies up to his reputation.

Seriously? You're laying the entire fleet on Lawson? Come on. And rebuilding the Normandy, while expensive was never the meat of the resource drain. Bringing Shepard back, that was the real price tag. There is not enough data on Cerberus holdings or their number of benefactors (to say nothing of TIM's private wealth) to make such a claim.

But the reveal of the indentity of the Shadow Broker, something people had been waiting for since ME1, is not the place to introduce a new addition to the ME universe. It was supposed to be shocking, I expected to go "Oh My God, I can't believe it was him/her/them all along!"
Instead I was left like: "What's a yagh?"

Yagh may not be supposed to be omniscient. But the Shadow Broker was and the Shadow Broker should not have been someone we had never before heard of.

It was shocking. We're talking "Holy **** what the **** is that it's bigger than a krogan!:o"  It's uniqueness was just as important as its terrifying appearance.
I see what you're saying in a general sense but there is literally NO NPC introduced before (or even after) Shadow Broker that would be interesting enough to pull off what you're saying. And giving me random Citadel passerby isn't going do cut it. I'd be thinking "Wait, I'm supposed to remember him?:huh:"

Like I said above, the resolution of a long-standing plotline it is not the appropriate moment to introduce something completely different.
Also, I do believe you place far too much importance in what characters look like rather than what they are.

Appearance is part of presentation. It's not the end-all/be-all and apperance with no substance is useless. But you want your character to be a scary dude, a harmless frog isn't going to cut it. No offence to salarians.

He most devinitively was not. Bioware at least tried to stay loyal to his description in ME2. Egocentric, manipulative and obssessed with control.
He did fail to impress but these traits are shown. Either through conversation or the videologs in Sanctuary. A loki mech couldn't have done that not to mention killing it wouldn't have freed Miranda.
The yagh, on the other hand, really has no personality. He is there just to introduce the yahg race and it was done at a horrible moment.

I saw no overt representation of any of those traits. You can argue for some interpretations of a specific action or line or two that support them but many of those can also be explained with more generic themes. So no, he did not live up to his set up.
The yahg's personality is irrelevant. The reputation of the Shadow Broker is an artificial but adequate substitute.

Actually I wonder... earlier I was asking jtav how to circumvent the pisspoor presentation of Lawson without outright contradicting it. Maybe robot impostor is the way to go... still have to consider how she doesn't see it. But this has possibilities...

I did not claim it was. But, even if a presention is wonderful, I still have the right to complain about a lack of a prior setup because that is also needed.

Well I think you can get away with its absence sometimes and you don't. What we have here is a difference of opinion.

See, you do place far too much importance on how a character looks like.
If the words are the same, being talked to by a Super-Reaper or being talked to by the StarChild makes no difference. In fact, the StarChild was actually ingenious since it alludes to Shepard's guilt as represented by the Dead-Child. It actually has a much deeper meaning than just having Bob the Super-Reaper talk about Creators and Created.

I never said it was acceptable I said it would've gotten a better reaction. Like the difference between killing it with fire, pouring acid on it and pisssing it out vs just two of the three. People will generally complain less if they like what they see. And no one like seeing that damn holobrat. And just for the lulz a SuperReaper would've made more sense because then you're not introducing a new character for no goddamn reason but working within existing lore connections. Kind of like... what you were saying earlier.

Actually I read a thread the other day that wondered what would happen if instead of the stupid holokid we had a part of Sovereign speak to us at the end. I think it's brilliant. Would've tied it off perfectly, enforced the inevitability of the Reapers and even you wouldve gotten your "Holy ****, it's YOU??" moment.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 avril 2012 - 12:33 .

[CrutchCricket]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
Yeha that was a let down.  I get the feeling they decided on a yagh to do a few things:

Show off a cool new alien race!
that transitioned into a boss fight easily (his size and all)
which would end him and leave that position for someone else to take over (which always felt like it would happen)

If the Shadow Broker had been say Barla Von (to your "Oh My God, I can't believe it was him/her/them all along!" comment)...then what?

In a nutshell. The bossfight aspect is also important. That felt like a boss fight more than then the human Reaper or Vasir. One of the reasons I hated Vasir with the fury of a thousand suns is because she was bull**** strong and had no business being so.

[Dr. Doctor]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
If I suddenly met someone named Gates who told me she was hiding from her father who was a very influential businessman, I would have to at least consider the possibility it is THE Bill Gates and question her about it.[/quote]
It's not a given that you might make that connection. Besides Miranda's obviously evasive when Shepard asks who her father is. She just dismisses his question with "a businessman". So clearly she doesn't want to ID him that easily. But if Lawson's that famous even "a businessman" might be too much information. So why would she say that. She slipped? Not likely. Bad writing? Doubful, that scene was pretty well written overall. The only remaining conclusion is that "a buisnessman" really isn't that big a clue. Ergo not everyone knows Lawson or automatically thinks of him everytime that name is mentioned.
[/quote]

Either that or this could happen:


Shepard: Before we do this I need some information.

Miranda: Such as?

Shepard: Such as who exactly is your father. Because right now I'm picturing some sort of deposed politician who uses his magical powers to strand us on his island.

Miranda: (stares at Shepard)

Shepard: I can read you know.

Miranda: Shepard. My father isn't Prospero.

Shepard: Alright, so that crosses that theory off the list.

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Seriously? You're laying the entire fleet on Lawson? Come on. And rebuilding the Normandy, while expensive was never the meat of the resource drain. Bringing Shepard back, that was the real price tag. There is not enough data on Cerberus holdings or their number of benefactors (to say nothing of TIM's private wealth) to make such a claim.

Shepard's ressurection cost 4 billions.
The Drive Core of the first Normandy cost 120 billions.
The Core of the SR2 is twice the size of the previous one.
So, the rebuilding the Normandy was what really costed TIM.

It was shocking. We're talking "Holy **** what the **** is that it's bigger than a krogan!:o"  It's uniqueness was just as important as its terrifying appearance.

We don't need the Shadow Broker to be a terrifying presence. His weapon was information, intelligence.
Tela Vasir would have served perfectly as the only boss battle much like how you fight Kai Leng and not TIM.

I see what you're saying in a general sense but there is literally NO NPC introduced before (or even after) Shadow Broker that would be interesting enough to pull off what you're saying. And giving me random Citadel passerby isn't going do cut it. I'd be thinking "Wait, I'm supposed to remember him?:huh:"

Any random passerby that had been introduced previously would have been better as the Shadow Broker than the yagh. I'm not exagerating, the yagh was the worst choice possible. It does not add anything to the SB that we didn't already knew.

Also, are you honestly suggesting that there is no NPC in the trilogy more interesting than the SB?
And even if there wasn't, there were many way to go about it. What is important is that it's revelation adds something to the SB that did exist beforehand.
For example, let's say that the SB was a sub-division of the Spectres. After that, the SB could be Bob the Turian and it wouldn't matter. It was interesting, it expanded on what we already knew about the SB, it opened new possibilities.

Appearance is part of presentation. It's not the end-all/be-all and apperance with no substance is useless. But you want your character to be a scary dude, a harmless frog isn't going to cut it. No offence to salarians.

Don Corleone wasn't physically imposing but he was still scary.
Why does the SB need to be?

I saw no overt representation of any of those traits. You can argue for some interpretations of a specific action or line or two that support them but many of those can also be explained with more generic themes. So no, he did not live up to his set up.

Entirely? No.
But his presentation was better than you make it sound. There are always different ways of interpreting situations. If his actions or words point towards an intepretation that is in line with what was set up, then it was not an entire failure.

The yahg's personality is irrelevant. The reputation of the Shadow Broker is an artificial but adequate substitute.

He was not worthy of being the SB. He could have just been a Dragon for Liara to kill at the end of the DLC and it wouldn't have made a difference.

I never said it was acceptable I said it would've gotten a better reaction. Like the difference between killing it with fire, pouring acid on it and pisssing it out vs just two of the three. People will generally complain less if they like what they see. And no one like seeing that damn holobrat. And just for the lulz a SuperReaper would've made more sense because then you're not introducing a new character for no goddamn reason but working within existing lore connections. Kind of like... what you were saying earlier.

Not some random Reaper. Harbinger.
The Catalyst is clearly just a convenient way for the devs to present to us the final choices. But I like the different interpretations you can come up with regarding his form.
And I can not understand why some people would prefer he look like some giant squid.

[flemm]

ThePinkFoxx wrote...

Fantastic! I have a few pieces of art I'm working on, but also a cosplay. Would anyone object to adding in a few photos of that when it's finished? 

I think, honestly, now that you've mentioned it, people would be more likely to object to not adding them

Seriously, that would be awesome, thank you

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
Shepard's ressurection cost 4 billions.
The Drive Core of the first Normandy cost 120 billions.
The Core of the SR2 is twice the size of the previous one.
So, the rebuilding the Normandy was what really costed TIM.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

We don't need the Shadow Broker to be a terrifying presence. His weapon was information, intelligence.
Tela Vasir would have served perfectly as the only boss battle much like how you fight Kai Leng and not TIM.

I disagree. I've never liked my villains to be nothing but weaklings once I've stripped away their advantages. They should fight me to the last (though it doesn't always have to be a physical battle). Anyway like it or not the yagh had more impact than any other known species they could've put in there. And I've already said why I hated Vasir.

Any random passerby that had been introduced previously would have been better as the Shadow Broker than the yagh. I'm not exagerating, the yagh was the worst choice possible. It does not add anything to the SB that we didn't already knew.

It sets precedent for replacing him. And no that wouldn't have been unique to the Yahg, any member of any race could've usurped the throne as it were. The yahg's presence reveals only things about the yahg themselves. But the presentation is still the most memorable it could've been and transitioned nicely into a boss battle as has been mentioned.

Also, are you honestly suggesting that there is no NPC in the trilogy more interesting than the SB?
And even if there wasn't, there were many way to go about it. What is important is that it's revelation adds something to the SB that did exist beforehand.
For example, let's say that the SB was a sub-division of the Spectres. After that, the SB could be Bob the Turian and it wouldn't matter. It was interesting, it expanded on what we already knew about the SB, it opened new possibilities.

Apart from squadmates and immediate support NPCs like Joker and Anderson? No, none that strike me as overly inspired. TIM is already the head of Cerberus, making him the Shadow Broker would be nonsensical and redundant. Sovereign, but that's a whole different ballgame. You keep bringing up this sub-Spectre thing. Why? That would demean the role of the SB because he'd answer to someone. Also it's not necessarily incompatible with Bob the Yahg if he deals through intermediaries (which he does). So really that whole angle wasn't added either because a) it was deemed unnecessary or it lessened the Shadow Broker position itself like I said.

Don Corleone wasn't physically imposing but he was still scary.
Why does the SB need to be?

Oh really? Maybe Don Corleone wasn't physically imposing like the Terminator or Darth Vader. But if appearance didn't matter why did Marlon Brando reportedly keep stuffing cotton balls in his mouth and keep saying "like a pitbull, he needs to look like a pitbull"? And then there's the voice. Physically imposing doesn't always mean he can break you with his pinky.

If his actions or words point towards an intepretation that is in line with what was set up, then it was not an entire failure.

If another intepretation can be just as easily suggested that does not use the aforementioned traits, the action can be called back into question. I know you're more lenient towards him. Maybe this is something we should package and put in the fan group lol.

He was not worthy of being the SB. He could have just been a Dragon for Liara to kill at the end of the DLC and it wouldn't have made a difference.

On the contrary being the Dragon would've made the Shadow Broker seem even weaker in comparison as it literally would've been weaker (unless it was a Reaper construct but that just presents even more problems). Given what the yagh is keeping it on a leash is simply unfeasible.

Not some random Reaper. Harbinger.

Harbinger would've been fine. Having heard the Sovereign possibility I prefer it more. But meh.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[Asakawa]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Asakawa wrote...

i'm working, i'm working I'll contribute! http://goo.gl/sbWIk (just me testing jing and photoshop while cleaning the spades card sketch =p)

I love your art

I'll give you a cookie for that! XD
Thanks a lot ^^

i really enjoyed this program. Wish I knew of it when i was still back in my uni days. Would be awfully helpful for a bunch of assignments haha! Recorded another video working on this same drawing, now I'm sure to get the pro version! http://goo.gl/mDl1c If anyone notices any mistakes, please let me know. My sight is so used to seeing this image for so long that i'm starting to lose track of mistakes x_x

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

:wub::wub:                                                                                                                                                                                                

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 10 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

If the Shadow Broker had been say Barla Von (to your "Oh My God, I can't believe it was him/her/them all along!" comment)...then what?

It's a good point. The whole thing rests on the kind of improbable idea that this influential figure has been switched out at least once previously, probably more, and is about to be switched out again.

If you make the SB less of a non-entity, then that probably becomes even harder to believe.

[Lawrence0294]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

:wub::wub:                                                                                                                                                                                                

:wizard::wizard::wizard:

[cbutz]

I was in the Ashley cut scene thread, went to a file with a lot of dialogue and found the messages part. It appears it is for the App: I know we saw that there were three messages that she send you. In the file I viewed there appears to have been a fourth.


Here is the link: https://docs.google....qJrHpiOOg&pli=1

"Miranda

Just heard about the Illusive Man. Wish I could have seen his face. Still getting patched up.

I managed to catch up with a few old contacts. They didn't want to talk; but they did. More later.

Finally got back to the Citadel. Found what I needed. Talk to you soon.

Good luck."


Either the first line is her first message, doubtful, or it is the one right after Cerberus base. Sooo at least the writers established that she wanted to be at the base but could not go to to her injuries sustained in Santcuary/ Kai Leng fight.

[MrNose]

cbutz wrote...

I was in the Ashley cut scene thread, went to a file with a lot of dialogue and found the messages part. It appears it is for the App: I know we saw that there were three messages that she send you. In the file I viewed there appears to have been a fourth.


Here is the link: https://docs.google....qJrHpiOOg&pli=1

"Miranda

Just heard about the Illusive Man. Wish I could have seen his face. Still getting patched up.

I managed to catch up with a few old contacts. They didn't want to talk; but they did. More later.

Finally got back to the Citadel. Found what I needed. Talk to you soon.

Good luck."


Either the first line is her first message, doubtful, or it is the one right after Cerberus base. Sooo at least the writers established that she wanted to be at the base but could not go to to her injuries sustained in Santcuary/ Kai Leng fight.

Well clearly... Had to be cut out...  Resources... etc.

[flemm]

If it is sent then, it contradicts the email at the SB terminal, which suggests she is already out doing other stuff.

So, I guess they are two separate efforts to sort of try to patch up the same problem that don't really make sense together.

Modifié par flemm, 10 avril 2012 - 03:34 .

[cbutz]

Yea but it is for the App. I mean it is one more line of dialogue....a very important one, it shows why she was not able to go! Even though I still believe that this was not a good enough reason lol

[CuseGirl]

Apart from squadmates and immediate support NPCs like Joker and Anderson? No, none that strike me as overly inspired. TIM is already the head of Cerberus, making him the Shadow Broker would be nonsensical and redundant. Sovereign, but that's a whole different ballgame. You keep bringing up this sub-Spectre thing. Why? That would demean the role of the SB because he'd answer to someone. Also it's not necessarily incompatible with Bob the Yahg if he deals through intermediaries (which he does). So really that whole angle wasn't added either because a) it was deemed unnecessary or it lessened the Shadow Broker position itself like I said.

Shadow Broker DLC is the best DLC they came up, in my opinion. Everytime I play it, I re-read that section about the Yahg as if I've never read it before lollll....And the look on Shepard's face when the SB stands up....it's a great scene. Because he's so calm the whole time, so confident that this "incident" with Liara, Shepard and __insert Squaddie__ is just a fleck on his vibrating ears.

Plus, a lot of times when you watch movies and there's guy that "nobody's ever seen him" or "nobody knows where he is" or whatever (Usual Suspects comes to mind), the reveal ends up being lackluster. It's always some scrawny skinny guy or an old man in a Colonel Sanders suit claiming you exist in a paradoxical anamoly or some nonsense. The SB as an alien version of Kingpin was great, in my opinion.

[flemm]

cbutz wrote...

Yea but it is for the App. I mean it is one more line of dialogue....a very important one, it shows why she was not able to go! Even though I still believe that this was not a good enough reason lol

Well, yeah, lol. I mean, I won't beleaguer the point, because it's been made, but I can't help but touch on the basics:

1) Miranda has every reason to want to see this part of the story through to the end. TIM has sold out her sister to her father and betrayed everything she ever believed in or worked for.
2) She has nothing else to do.
3) She has mild injuries that can be treated in the Normandy's medical bay.
4) There isn't even a dialogue option to discuss the issue. At the end of Sanctuary, neither Shepard nor Miranda reference this immensely important storyline that they have both been involved in since the moment they met in ME2, like it doesn't occur to either one of them that they might want to finish this together.

*shakes head*

Anyway, my point about the two messages contradicting one another was just a little technicality, but if Miranda is off leading her own team against Cerberus bases by this time, then she can't still be getting patched up. So... take your pick, I guess.

Modifié par flemm, 10 avril 2012 - 03:23 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Not to destroy the Magic of Mass Effect, but the Heretic Station had little Gravity. How did Miri keep herself from hopping around as if she were on the Moon? She was much more lighter. I mean, look at the Geth when you hit them with Biotics. The Geth fly all over the place. How did Miri allow herself to walk Normally? Did she have Zero-G/Low Gravity Combat training so that would be used to such an environment? Did she have a Magnetic System in her boots to allow her to walk normally? There's SO MUCH Head-Cannon/Preferences in my mind with this. What do you think regarding this?

[Ares91]

Hey I'm new to the forums and I was looking for some Miranda fans to see how others felt about her character in ME3 and well it looks like I found the right place lol.
So Ive read though the last 4 or so pages of the thread and I had a few quick questions.

1. Who wrote the Miranda fanfic? The one where she goes to a bar and gets captured it was a few pages back but I cant find it now.

2. This book idea you guys have sounds very interesting. When you guys say you want some letters for the book what do you mean?

3. Who is Dr.Doctor on twitter? I thought I saw that here I may be wrong.

4. How do you guys get those sigs? I keep trying but it just come out as a link.

Modifié par Ares91, 10 avril 2012 - 03:31 .