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[hot_heart]

I don't know if you guys were aware but I seem to recall some hints that Miranda had been a bi option at some point. I think a female Shepard can have 'that conversation' with Mordin and saying something like "What Miranda and I do during downtime is our own busines" and there was, apparently, an audio file of a similar thing ("I care for her", I believe) during LotSB when Liara asks about Miranda. Could be fake though?

Anyway, I always figured Miranda had some attraction to Shepard even before he died. Or admiration at the very least. She's just very professional and hides it well; we know she's not used to 'attached'. Of course, her loyalty mission is where you could infer that personal feelings have started to surface. I guess that's the cool thing about having your 'own' story in a way: you're free to interpret things a little differently.

Modifié par hot_heart, 13 avril 2012 - 08:21 .

[Ieldra]

Asakawa wrote...

jtav wrote...

Oh, ME3 has compensations. Traynor, the N7 Valiant, Ori being kinda cool. I just miss having a ground team I cared for. And Miranda exciting me.

yeah, those are all very nice and I really like the gameplay... but... *sigh*
Mass Effect 2 is so much better still

The people at the PAX panel appear to agree. They voted ME2 as the best game in the trilogy. I don't necessarily agree, but what's noticeable in ME3 is a very disparate quality in storytelling and writing between different locations and characters. There are highlights like the the Genophage and Quarian/Geth plots, and huge disappointments like the Thessia and Earth missions. There are characters treated well (Liara) and those treated abysmally (Jacob). ME2 wasn't ideal, but playing it doesn't feel like a rollercoaster between the epic and the trivial, the exciting and the boring, the sublime and the soul-crushingly depressing.    

[Ieldra]

@hot_heart:
Yes, we are aware that there are romance lines between femShep and Miranda in the ME2 files. IMO they are not indicative of anything in particular, only that lines had been recorded for both femShep and maleShep just in case they were needed. In the game, there's nothing left of that. The hypothesis was purely the result of datamining.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Not the best shot, but a toast to happier times. I started one of my long-neglected FSheps in ME2, and I can feel the bad memories just slough away. To the lady we fell for!

To the badass operative who stole our hearts!

[Ieldra]

Mandalorian9 wrote...
Oh Miranda...*sigh* shes the only real reason why I hate the ending. I can understand why she wasn't a squad member, but now not knowing what happened to her at the end? Not knowing what the hell happened to everyone I knew to begin with?! Honestly Shepard has been through hell and back and deserved a better ending himself. He deserved to retire peacefully with his LI and start a family, and chill with Garrus on a beach reminiscing on the "good times" I just hope the indoctrination theory is correct, I want to connect with Miranda again.

You don't need that abomination of a hypothesis to rejoin with Miranda. You just need to take the Destroy option with enough EMS to make Shepard survive. As opposed to the team members, reunion with Miranda is possible since she's on Earth. 

I have a much higher hurdle to overcome. I can't overcome my distaste for the Destroy option so I must use fanfic and space magic for a reunion. Not ideal, but if Bioware can use a giant conflagration of space magic to transform all intelligent life in the galaxy, I can use a much smaller amount to make Shepard come back. I envy those who can take the Destroy option - they have a chance that the Extended Cut will give them a reunion scene.

[Ieldra]

enayasoul wrote...
I think over time she felt differently about him. He got the job done. I think Shepard saving Miranda's sister won him some points. I think the kiss totally blew her away. haha. I loved that part. "And stop smiling damn it." I chuckle every time. I liked the *sexual* tension in that scene.

Absolutely. That's almost my favorite Miranda scene. And I think her love grew out of respect.

BTW, I read you fanfic excerpt. Nice little action scene, but perhaps a little too much banter. Other the other hand, "Use your brain for once Shepard, it would turn me on.” just made my day. ROFL. 

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Need help.

Was thinking about sending another letter to phase two of Visii's LI appreciation movement. The Miranda thread is known to disagree about how her character should be interpreted and what direction it should be taken in. I really don't want the devs to get a mixed message from us at a time like this, so I'm trying to make it simple for them in this letter and sum up the common denominators that all Miranda fans want.

Can you guys offer contributions on what these common denominators might be? What do we all want/value/see in the romance?

Defining character traits:
(1) Independence
(2) Competent operative
(3) Has some ideal of human advancement, but appreciates non-human culture.
(4) Driven and ambitious
(5) Fiercely protective of her sister.
(6) Mission-oriented pragmatist, most of the time.
(7) Professionally confident but emotionally vulnerable.
(8) Loyal towards those she cares about, and unforgiving of betrayal.

I think most of us, maybe even all, agree that these traits exist but disagree about their degree and relative importance.

Excellent, excellent.

The prompt asks for fan perspectives on the Shepard/LI relationship. Any chance I can ask you to pin down some similar common denoms for Shepard and Miranda's relationship? How do we perceive it, what distinguishes it from other romances, what is the dynamic between them like, etc.

[hot_heart]

Ieldra2 wrote...
@hot_heart:
Yes, we are aware that there are romance lines between femShep and Miranda in the ME2 files. IMO they are not indicative of anything in particular, only that lines had been recorded for both femShep and maleShep just in case they were needed. In the game, there's nothing left of that. The hypothesis was purely the result of datamining.

Sorry, I'm at work so kinda rushed that. Should've clarified. I was thinking of terms of what Td1984 had said about Miranda's lines during her loyalty mission not meaning anything when, in fact, they may have been written as pulling double duty so should not be discounted. Much in the same way drunk Tali speaks as if Miranda died at Sanctuary, with only a few lines actually being changed depending on what happened. And how Liara is always really (creepily) friendly.

Modifié par hot_heart, 13 avril 2012 - 08:54 .

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Need help.

Was thinking about sending another letter to phase two of Visii's LI appreciation movement. The Miranda thread is known to disagree about how her character should be interpreted and what direction it should be taken in. I really don't want the devs to get a mixed message from us at a time like this, so I'm trying to make it simple for them in this letter and sum up the common denominators that all Miranda fans want.

Can you guys offer contributions on what these common denominators might be? What do we all want/value/see in the romance?

Defining character traits:
(1) Independence
(2) Competent operative
(3) Has some ideal of human advancement, but appreciates non-human culture.
(4) Driven and ambitious
(5) Fiercely protective of her sister.
(6) Mission-oriented pragmatist, most of the time.
(7) Professionally confident but emotionally vulnerable.
(8) Loyal towards those she cares about, and unforgiving of betrayal.

I think most of us, maybe even all, agree that these traits exist but disagree about their degree and relative importance.

Excellent, excellent.

The prompt asks for fan perspectives on the Shepard/LI relationship. Any chance I can ask you to pin down some similar common denoms for Shepard and Miranda's relationship? How do we perceive it, what distinguishes it from other romances, what is the dynamic between them like, etc.

If I had more insights on that, I would've participated in the new project. But here are some keywords.

(1) The romance is based on mutual respect, out of which the romantic attraction grows.
(2) They often challenge each other, their relationship has often something of a competition.
(3) Both of them are special in some way, Miranda because of her genetic engineering, Shepard because of his Lazarus implants. They are both "larger than life", in nature, in drive and in achievements - the man who saved the galaxy, and the woman who defeated death - and thus somewhat removed from the rest of humanity. That's why I feel they're made for each other. They can be equals on a higher level.

Hmm...that's it for now. Note, though, that there is likely much less consensus about what goes on between Miranda and Shepard than about her character traits.


 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 avril 2012 - 10:14 .

[jorune24]

Did anyone else get the impression from the ME2 intro that Miranda kinda had this admiration for Shepard from afar by the way she talks to the Illusive Man about him/her? At least that's how I read it.

[Ieldra]

jorune24 wrote...
Did anyone else get the impression from the ME2 intro that Miranda kinda had this admiration for Shepard from afar by the way she talks to the Illusive Man about him/her? At least that's how I read it.

I got a completely different impression, namely, that she thought all the hubbub made about Shepard was completely exaggerated and that no man or woman could possibly live up to such a hype. The "bloody icon" indicates sarcasm. That's supported by what she says later during the romance - that she'd thought Shepard couldn't be that great leader everyone thought he was, but now she has reconsidered and apologizes.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I got a completely different impression, namely, that she thought all the hubbub made about Shepard was completely exaggerated and that no man or woman could possibly live up to such a hype. The "bloody icon" indicates sarcasm. That's supported by what she says later during the romance - that she'd thought Shepard couldn't be that great leader everyone thought he was, but now she has reconsidered and apologizes.

I would agree to an extent. However I don't think it would be so much "no one man could possibly be as good as his legend" but more the fact that it's the Alliance and to a lesser extent the Council that's raving about him. Since she doesn't think much of them it makes sense that she wouldn't think much of their heroes either.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jorune24 wrote...
Did anyone else get the impression from the ME2 intro that Miranda kinda had this admiration for Shepard from afar by the way she talks to the Illusive Man about him/her? At least that's how I read it.

I got a completely different impression, namely, that she thought all the hubbub made about Shepard was completely exaggerated and that no man or woman could possibly live up to such a hype. The "bloody icon" indicates sarcasm. That's supported by what she says later during the romance - that she'd thought Shepard couldn't be that great leader everyone thought he was, but now she has reconsidered and apologizes.

Well, I think there is some admiration from the beginning, for Shep's accomplishments. However, that initial dialogue with TIM is pre-Lazarus, as I recall.

Where Miranda seems to mostly have doubts is the question of whether or not it's worth investing so many resources on one individual.

Modifié par flemm, 13 avril 2012 - 12:45 .

[jtav]

Another attempt at fixing the Cerberus arc, now with added Jack:

Move Gellix and Grissom to the main quest along with Sanctuary and make them each a piece of the puzzle to finding Cerberus. Along the way, a division develops between your allies. Miranda (Brynn if dead) wants to see Cerberus reformed into humanity's STG. Jack (or Kahlee, who remembers Paul and Gillian Grayson all too well) wants it utterly destroyed. You must choose during Cronos. Whichever faction, scientists or biotic kids, you side against leaves. If Jack and Miranda are both alive and loyal, you can convince them that the Reapers are more important and the post-war fate of Cerberus can be decided later.

[Mandalorian9]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mandalorian9 wrote...
Oh Miranda...*sigh* shes the only real reason why I hate the ending. I can understand why she wasn't a squad member, but now not knowing what happened to her at the end? Not knowing what the hell happened to everyone I knew to begin with?! Honestly Shepard has been through hell and back and deserved a better ending himself. He deserved to retire peacefully with his LI and start a family, and chill with Garrus on a beach reminiscing on the "good times" I just hope the indoctrination theory is correct, I want to connect with Miranda again.

You don't need that abomination of a hypothesis to rejoin with Miranda. You just need to take the Destroy option with enough EMS to make Shepard survive. As opposed to the team members, reunion with Miranda is possible since she's on Earth. 

I have a much higher hurdle to overcome. I can't overcome my distaste for the Destroy option so I must use fanfic and space magic for a reunion. Not ideal, but if Bioware can use a giant conflagration of space magic to transform all intelligent life in the galaxy, I can use a much smaller amount to make Shepard come back. I envy those who can take the Destroy option - they have a chance that the Extended Cut will give them a reunion scene.

True yes, but I still would have liked closure. To see her and Shepard happily reunite and then see some cutscene of them laying in grass looking at the stars talking about what they just went through and what next.  Even them months or a few years from then seeing Shepard and Miranda settling down and having a child.

Also the problem is no matter what ending you choose you still have billions of people from all sorts of species stranded on Earth or the sol system at most. Most of sol has been mined and would not be suitable for life (partly because their technology I presume doesn't work anymore or as well.) As fast as you unite the galaxy they will tear eachother apart for what resources are left. Quarians, Batarians and many other species will likely die out, etc. Is this really the kind of world fit for Shepard and Miranda to settle down in, much less survive? This is also why I hate the ending, everyone you rally to help you fight is technically dead anyway, no matter what you do. Even if your squadmates band together with you, you will essentially become mauraders to fight for whats left to eat. (Earth, after all is all but decimated, and the atmosphere alone probably won't clear up from the Reaper terraforming anytime soon, so growing massive amounts of vegitation necessary to feed the populations is not possible) One more point, the Starchild did say all synthetics would die in the end, and yet Shepard is part synthetic. Even if he did mangage to survive crashlanding on Earth after the entire Citadel blew up in orbit, how could he possibly live without those implants keeping him alive? ugh this is why i love the Indoctrination theory, it makes so much sense and gives me hope for something better.

[CrutchCricket]

Indoctrination theory fails because it wants to deny the endings but ends up working with them (how ironic).

You don't like the endings? Deny them outright. I call the stupid holokid Reaper trickery or hallucination based on blood loss and shock (or more recently a test by the true Catalyst). Each option actually kills you. So you reject them and move on to something else. I won't go into my version but you get the picture. Just say no lol. Then make your own.

[Ieldra]

Mandalorian9 wrote...
Also the problem is no matter what ending you choose you still have billions of people from all sorts of species stranded on Earth or the sol system at most. Most of sol has been mined and would not be suitable for life (partly because their technology I presume doesn't work anymore or as well.) As fast as you unite the galaxy they will tear eachother apart for what resources are left. Quarians, Batarians and many other species will likely die out, etc. Is this really the kind of world fit for Shepard and Miranda to settle down in, much less survive? This is also why I hate the ending, everyone you rally to help you fight is technically dead anyway, no matter what you do. Even if your squadmates band together with you, you will essentially become mauraders to fight for whats left to eat. (Earth, after all is all but decimated, and the atmosphere alone probably won't clear up from the Reaper terraforming anytime soon, so growing massive amounts of vegitation necessary to feed the populations is not possible) One more point, the Starchild did say all synthetics would die in the end, and yet Shepard is part synthetic. Even if he did mangage to survive crashlanding on Earth after the entire Citadel blew up in orbit, how could he possibly live without those implants keeping him alive? ugh this is why i love the Indoctrination theory, it makes so much sense and gives me hope for something better.

Put a positive spin on things. Since we're likely stuck with Casper the Genocidal Ghost and its three options, Extended Cut or not, better to make the best of it. I suggest reading my thread Out of the dark age: an ME3 aftermath worldbuilding project.

As for Miranda, I would want to see a reunion scene as much as everyone else, but as long as that isn't possible fanfic must do. jtav has already contributed significantly to the sanity of Miranda fans with her story Brave New World.

[Mandalorian9]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Indoctrination theory fails because it wants to deny the endings but ends up working with them (how ironic).

You don't like the endings? Deny them outright. I call the stupid holokid Reaper trickery or hallucination based on blood loss and shock (or more recently a test by the true Catalyst). Each option actually kills you. So you reject them and move on to something else. I won't go into my version but you get the picture. Just say no lol. Then make your own.

Yes I know, but it still isn't going to helop when we finally play ME4 and the endings catch up to us. Also I know the Indocrtination theory uses the endings, but to explain why they are choices and to depict what Shepard is "dreaming" about in his view of saving the galaxy. Too long to explain here but once again this intricate interpretation is why I will stick with the IT until the extended dlc, and if all it does is polish the crappy endings to explain why the endings are so crappy and why we should love it, I will most likely just fanfic IT and make a better ending. It really is sad to find out that the brilliant writers of all three games totally slipped up on what mattered most to fans, closure.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Put a positive spin on things. Since we're likely stuck with Casper the Genocidal Ghost and its three options, Extended Cut or not, better to make the best of it. I suggest reading my thread Out of the dark age: an ME3 aftermath worldbuilding project.

Actually, having stumbled on your Control and the relays thread the other day I have to say I prefer it more. The Abominable Holokid must be purged, I will never yield on this, but bull**** logic and franchise ruining aside the thought of Shepard transcending and existing nigh godlike as the Reapers is appealing. Particularly towards my Shepard who, Reaper war aside isn't overly thrilled with his organic planet-depending existance. Being a spacer he's far more fascinated with the mysteries of the cosmos and given a chance to exist in a way that can explore those and understand them he might just take it. Too bad it'd require the sacrifice of Miranda and the entire EU I had planned for them. Not to mention the series as it stands with this current configuration.

On that note I went through the ending again (surprisingly with no violent upheavals) and picked control. I see what you're saying about the relays. Even though they're reusing the animation the relay shot in this ending could be interpreted as an energy overload on the relay structure but not a destruction of that structure. Which means it can be jumpstarted again. Also I don't believe the holokid makes any specific reference to the relays being destroyed in Control.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 13 avril 2012 - 03:33 .

[Mandalorian9]

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...
[/quote]
Put a positive spin on things. Since we're likely stuck with Casper the Genocidal Ghost and its three options, Extended Cut or not, better to make the best of it. I suggest reading my thread Out of the dark age: an ME3 aftermath worldbuilding project.

As for Miranda, I would want to see a reunion scene as much as everyone else, but as long as that isn't possible fanfic must do. jtav has already contributed significantly to the sanity of Miranda fans with her story Brave New World.

[/quote]

Great thread, is it just a collection of your ideas or are you going to try creating your own RP group? You might as well, I'd certainly contribute in making our own branch of the universe, and I like your preliminary ideas. 

[Mandalorian9]

CrutchCricket I love you banner hahaha!

[CrutchCricket]

Mandalorian9 wrote...
Yes I know, but it still isn't going to helop when we finally play ME4 and the endings catch up to us. Also I know the Indocrtination theory uses the endings, but to explain why they are choices and to depict what Shepard is "dreaming" about in his view of saving the galaxy. Too long to explain here but once again this intricate interpretation is why I will stick with the IT until the extended dlc, and if all it does is polish the crappy endings to explain why the endings are so crappy and why we should love it, I will most likely just fanfic IT and make a better ending. It really is sad to find out that the brilliant writers of all three games totally slipped up on what mattered most to fans, closure.

ME4 (if there'll be such a thing) is rumored to be set far into the future. The farther out you get the easier it is to adapt different endings to it.
I will keep discussion of this short because IT is not welcome here but its biggest failure is endorsing one of the so called choices. By saying "Destroy" is the only right choice it is still accepting the holokid's words at face value even if it dismisses him as illusion. If the Reapers are indoctrinating Shepard why would they offer him a way out? And if the interpretation is that Shepard finds that way out himself through heroic willpower, why does that manifest as one of the holokid's choices? It's reasoning fails internally. And if you truly get why the endings are a nullification of the series you need to reject them in their entirety.

Mandalorian9 wrote...

CrutchCricket I love you banner hahaha!

Hah, thanks! Now there's an easy way to reject the endings without too much hassle. Space grandpa just got it wrong because he was off his meds. Hell he himself says "details have been lost". Yeah ok there gramps... I'm gonna look this up on space wikipedia before I write my school report on it.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 13 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[Mandalorian9]

I wasn't aware that IT wasn't welcome here, but its not why I'm here anyway. I was just mentioning it because I like it and that is how I wish to interpret the endings.

lol space wiki

[CrutchCricket]

Yeah, Miranda thread needs more Miranda discussion. Hey speaking of space wiki, I wonder how ME history books will show Miranda. How will they report on her involvement in the Reaper crisis?

[CuseGirl]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I have a much higher hurdle to overcome. I can't overcome my distaste for the Destroy option so I must use fanfic and space magic for a reunion. Not ideal, but if Bioware can use a giant conflagration of space magic to transform all intelligent life in the galaxy, I can use a much smaller amount to make Shepard come back. I envy those who can take the Destroy option - they have a chance that the Extended Cut will give them a reunion scene.

Wait, you can't comprehend the destroy option or just don't like the whole "kill Geth, EDI, and sorta kill synthetic" option along with destroying the mass relays.....