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"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


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#46451
CrutchCricket

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Ieldra2 wrote...
It makes narrative sense because the claim that depending on Reaper technology (like the relays) is limiting in the long run is one of the main philosophical stances presented in the games. Destroy represents both sides of this stance. Cherrypicking shouldn't be allowed here. I'd even go so far and say that it isn't even out of place for the Synthesis, because that option is based on the notion that things go in new, exotic directions. If you read the mid-term speculation part in my out of the dark age thread, you'll see what I mean.

And of course, these scenarios give Miranda an opportunity to shine by using her brilliant mind to overcome some of the limitations imposed by the side-effects of Shepard's action. But that...is fanfic.

That is not the claim. The claim is that using it means developing predictably enough for the Reapers to have an easy time harvesting. It's also elaborated on that using just that technology with no forethought or intent to understand it (using it blindly) will lead to your destruction. It says nothing about using it and developing it past its limits, something I assume would happen eventually for all cycles if the Reapers didn't cut it short.

Come on, where's that "we'll study it and adapt it for our own use" mentality that used to drive the CB arguments?

#46452
Ares91

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[quote]Mandalorian9 wrote...

[/quote]
What boggles my mind is that even though I picked the destroy option EDI walks out of the Normany just fine at the end, which means that the god child was either lying to you or isn't as wise as we are led to believe.

[/quote]
What???? How did you do that?

#46453
CrutchCricket

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MisterJB wrote...

Sovereign was one Reaper and the Collectors the indocrinated remains of just one more race.

The Reaper Fleet has dictated the course of all life in the galaxy for billions of years. By using the Crucible, Shepard is changing the fundamental laws of the universe forever. Nothing will ever be like it was before.
There must be consequences to such a decision.

And, unlike with Sovereign and the Collectors, you have a choice. You don't need to destroy them.

And now you're facing more Reapers and indoctrinated remains of other races. A difference in quantity, nothing more. The Reapers are not invincible and they're not a constant of the universe. This isn't fighting Galactus here.

The presence of other choices doesn't have a bearing on the logic of this one.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 13 avril 2012 - 06:09 .


#46454
CrutchCricket

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hot_heart wrote...

Also, you did 'sacrifice' the council or a lot of human lives when defeating Sovereign.

You didn't have to sacrifice the Council.

Implied deaths in the battle against the Reapers are always a constant. Plenty of people die in the battle of the Citadel. Countless colonists die on the CB. And millions die in the Reaper war. Difference in scale is all it is.

#46455
flemm

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jtav wrote...

I think she'll be a controversial figure.


I hope so Image IPB

Really the writers should have embraced the complexity rather than run away from it.

#46456
Mandalorian9

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[quote]Ares91 wrote...

[quote]Mandalorian9 wrote...

[/quote]
What boggles my mind is that even though I picked the destroy option EDI walks out of the Normany just fine at the end, which means that the god child was either lying to you or isn't as wise as we are led to believe.

[/quote]
What???? How did you do that?
[/quote]
I'm guessing it shouldn't happen? lol I don't know thats why I was scratching my head. It also had me wondering if the Geth survived too.

#46457
hot_heart

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CrutchCricket wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

Also, you did 'sacrifice' the council or a lot of human lives when defeating Sovereign.

You didn't have to sacrifice the Council.


That's why I said 'or a lot of human lives'.

Anyway, since the endings are so bad, I always figured they included that 'clause' in Destroy just to give it a downside.

Back to Miranda...

#46458
MisterJB

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CrutchCricket wrote...
And now you're facing more Reapers and indoctrinated remains of other races. A difference in quantity, nothing more. The Reapers are not invincible and they're not a constant of the universe. This isn't fighting Galactus here.

The presence of other choices doesn't have a bearing on the logic of this one.

Galactus is nothing compared to the Reapers. Not in terms of power but in terms of what they represent.
Galactus exist solely to feed. He does not shape the galaxy around him like the Reapers do.

The Reapers are as much a constant of the ME universe as the laws of physics. Destroying Sovereign changes nothing. It just delays the natural course of life; Civilizations rise, discover the Mass Relays and then are Reaped.
But Destroying the Reaper Fleet changes everything. It will be like entering an universe where 1+1=3.

To simply be able to enter this New Universe and simply treat it as if we just defeated an invasion force like any other would ruin the ME series.

#46459
yesikareyes

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 Since we can't stop blabbering about the ending, here is the DAT ASS shot as promised...


http://desmond.image...png&res=landing

#46460
CrutchCricket

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MisterJB wrote...
Galactus is nothing compared to the Reapers. Not in terms of power but in terms of what they represent.
Galactus exist solely to feed. He does not shape the galaxy around him like the Reapers do.

The Reapers are as much a constant of the ME universe as the laws of physics. Destroying Sovereign changes nothing. It just delays the natural course of life; Civilizations rise, discover the Mass Relays and then are Reaped.
But Destroying the Reaper Fleet changes everything. It will be like entering an universe where 1+1=3.

To simply be able to enter this New Universe and simply treat it as if we just defeated an invasion force like any other would ruin the ME series.

I'm not going to get into Galactus  (considered the balacing force between life and death btw, and a cosmic abstact) vs the Reapers, but I will contradict you about the Reapers. They do not shape anything. They just manipulate organic sentients and this is possible largely because of said organics' ignorance. If they knew what was coming and had a few centuries, maybe even decades to prepare, the Reapers would be defeated.

Like it or not the Reapers got knocked down a peg or two in both games. The first blow was killing Sovereign, proving the Reapers themselves are not invulnerable. The second strike was the Collector base. By showing us how they reproduce the Reapers were brought down to our level (relatively speaking). They're still far more advanced obviously. But no longer the mecha-Cthulu we thought they were in ME1. You're working off old assumptions. Funny though how you consider the Reapers iconic to Mass Effect and treat their loss as a ruination and yet you dismiss the relays without a second thought when they are the more recognizable symbol.

There is nothing inevitable about the Reapers. We win. They could've gone with the inevitable route, in which case they win no matter what and the endings would have to show how we survive or at least pass something on to the next cycle. But they didn't.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 13 avril 2012 - 07:31 .


#46461
kookie28

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yesikareyes wrote...

 Since we can't stop blabbering about the ending, here is the DAT ASS shot as promised...


http://desmond.image...png&res=landing

No problems here.

#46462
Skullheart

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Am I the only one who despises the ass shots?

Miranda is more than that...

#46463
CrutchCricket

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Skullheart wrote...

Am I the only one who despises the ass shots?

Miranda is more than that...

Obviously. Doesn't mean they're not nice to look at now and then.:wub:

#46464
kookie28

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Skullheart wrote...

Am I the only one who despises the ass shots?

Miranda is more than that...

I don't mind them.  As long as they don't actually change Miranda's character.

#46465
yesikareyes

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Skullheart wrote...

Am I the only one who despises the ass shots?

Miranda is more than that...


It's not like that's the only thing I see :? You gotta appreciate EVERYTHING about Miranda  :wub:

#46466
hot_heart

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Yeah. She has great breasts too.

#46467
flemm

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CrutchCricket wrote...
Obviously. Doesn't mean they're not nice to look at now and then.:wub:


Agreed Image IPB

#46468
Ieldra

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I think we need a different Miranda picture....

Image IPB

#46469
hot_heart

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Just noticed that her voice goes really low at
"'Contain the situation'? Sounds final."
"It nearly was. He doesn't take rejection well."

Love it.

#46470
kookie28

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I wonder if Miranda ever uses nail polish.

#46471
o Ventus

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kaymarierose wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

kaymarierose wrote...

Kind of random, but I have to say, I absolutely love the freckles that Miranda has on her stomach. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

She has freckles on her stomach?


Indeed she does. How did you not notice them during the romance scene in ME2?

Though I guess you would actually have to look away from her chest to see them...


I notice she has a beauty mark, but no freckles.

#46472
o Ventus

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kookie28 wrote...

I wonder if Miranda ever uses nail polish.


Why would she ever need to?

I suppose if she was going out somewhere (Say... on a date with Shepard where she was out of the body suit) I guess she would.

Normally? I wouldn't think so, since her suit covers her fingers.

#46473
o Ventus

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hot_heart wrote...

Just noticed that her voice goes really low at
"'Contain the situation'? Sounds final."
"It nearly was. He doesn't take rejection well."

Love it.


It also marks the end of all Cerberus-related discussion with Miranda in the entire game.

Isn't that sad?

#46474
kaymarierose

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o Ventus wrote...

kaymarierose wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

kaymarierose wrote...

Kind of random, but I have to say, I absolutely love the freckles that Miranda has on her stomach. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

She has freckles on her stomach?


Indeed she does. How did you not notice them during the romance scene in ME2?

Though I guess you would actually have to look away from her chest to see them...


I notice she has a beauty mark, but no freckles.


Not exactly an in-game picture, but it makes it easier to see because it has better lighting. They are present in the game as well, and if you consider them beauty marks as opposed to freckles, then I change my post to "I love the beauty marks she has on her stomach."

Image IPB 

#46475
MisterJB

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CrutchCricket wrote...
I'm not going to get into Galactus  (considered the balacing force between life and death btw, and a cosmic abstact) vs the Reapers, but I will contradict you about the Reapers. They do not shape anything. They just manipulate organic sentients and this is possible largely because of said organics' ignorance. If they knew what was coming and had a few centuries, maybe even decades to prepare, the Reapers would be defeated.

Like it or not the Reapers got knocked down a peg or two in both games. The first blow was killing Sovereign, proving the Reapers themselves are not invulnerable. The second strike was the Collector base. By showing us how they reproduce the Reapers were brought down to our level (relatively speaking). They're still far more advanced obviously. But no longer the mecha-Cthulu we thought they were in ME1. You're working off old assumptions. Funny though how you consider the Reapers iconic to Mass Effect and treat their loss as a ruination and yet you dismiss the relays without a second thought when they are the more recognizable symbol.

There is nothing inevitable about the Reapers. We win. They could've gone with the inevitable route, in which case they win no matter what and the endings would have to show how we survive or at least pass something on to the next cycle. But they didn't.

You misunderstand. The point is not how destroying the Reapers will ruin ME. The point is how dismissing them will do so.
Who forged the Mass Relays and connected the galaxy? Who decided where the seat of power of al civilizations would be? Who created the predominant technology?
The Reapers. You may not wish to admit it but they are presented as something outwardly and what they do as inevitable.
From a narrative viewpoint, you can not dismiss the Reapers as just another invasion fleet, no different than the turians or krogans, destroy them and rebuild galactic community as if nothing happened.
Breaking the cycle is the single, most important moment in the history of the ME universe since the dawn of time and drastic changes must happen to show this.
The loss of all Reaper technology is the apropriate ending if you pick the "Destroy" option. Shepard renounces the Reaper Solution, he must also give up of their technology then.
Changing these consequences would be the biggest mistake the writers could make. And nothing you can say will ever convince me otherwise.

Finally, the Reapers are indestructible through convential means. The game makes a point of showing this.
Sovereign was the only Capital Reaper we ever saw defeated and, even then, only because Shepard destroyed its avatar.