82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Babi_Siha]

@MisterJB, I agree BW intended on kill Miranda, but there's so much content that can be done up until Sanctuary. A DLC about her quest to find Oriana, with an extended Citadel romance scene and an actual confrontation with her father and possibly the Illusive Man as soon as she reaches Horizon, not to mention I'd really like to know how he fight with Kai Leng played out.

Unfortunatelly BW hates Miranda almost as much as its fans and it seems we will probably never get a DLC about her. We will however have one about Liara's journey to Mars.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 15 avril 2012 - 01:52 .

[dtrain24]

Babi_Siha wrote...

@MisterJB, I agree BW intended on kill Miranda, but there's so much content that can be done up until Sanctuary. A DLC about her quest to find Oriana, with an extended Citadel romance scene and an actual confrontation with her father and possibly the Illusive Man as soon as she reaches Horizon, not to mention I'd really like to know how he fight with Kai Leng played out.

Unfortunatelly BW hates Miranda almost as much as its fans it seems and will probable never get a DLC about her. We will however have one about Liara's journey to Mars.

LOL. Sad thing is you're probably right...

[Rasofe]

There were a lot of ways for her to end up dead - I mean, come on, she doesn't exactly sound trustworthy when she asks you for those resources - but I don't see how that's evidence Bioware wanted her dead. Just that choices have consequences et cetera.

A paranoiac would probably believe that, once it becomes obvious Shepard will destroy the base, Miranda only pretends to defect from the Illusive Man to be a covert agent that will betray Shepard later. I'm almost surprised that didn't happen...

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

Because Miranda is meant to die on Sanctuary. Henry is dead, Oriana is safe and some junior writer figured that wrapped up her storyline nicely. Then, she dies to give Shepard that extra motivation to hate Cerberus.
Frankly, I'm surprised Kai Leng did not kill every single ME2 squadmate.
And, of course, there's not much point in creating extra content for someone who is supposed to be dead.

I shudder to think what novice was charged with writing this. It's really bad lol. Lots of internal inconsistencies, and missed opportunity after missed opportunity.

Modifié par flemm, 15 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[jtav]

And that's probably why we'll never find out who wrote her. Stupid reactionary fantasy. This needs fixing more than the endings.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

And that's probably why we'll never find out who wrote her. Stupid reactionary fantasy.

That's a good way of putting it, yeah. It's a little covered up when you jump through the hoops, but nowhere near enough for it to escape notice.

On the bright side, it's far too amateurish and small-minded to have any real hold on the character.

Modifié par flemm, 15 avril 2012 - 02:05 .

[Skullheart]

You think that whoever wrote Miranda reader or visited her threads?

[flemm]

Skullheart wrote...

You think that whoever wrote Miranda reader or visited her threads?

I have no idea.

[dtrain24]

Skullheart wrote...

You think that whoever wrote Miranda reader or visited her threads?

I hope so.

[jtav]

If I had to sum up, my desires for Miranda can be summed up in two things:

1. She needs goals. Personal goals, not just things she wants for Ori.
2. She needs to matter. She needs to bring something to the table dramatically besides a sad death scene. And since her survival is complicated, it should be more dramatically satisfying than her death.

[jtav]

I get the sense that someone visited our thread around leak time and panicked when they noticed we were asking for the opposite of what we got. Permission to speculate as to author intent?

[flemm]

On the subject of Bioware "wanting Miranda dead," I do think it's worth making a couple of points. Obviously, no one is more critical of Miranda's role in ME3 than I, so I don't say this to defend what was done, far from it. Moreso just to consider what the real problem is.

For one thing, the most prominent returning squad members who are not on the squad all appear on the crit path. In roughly the following order: Thane, Mordin, Wrex, Legion, Miranda.

Of those, I believe only Miranda and Mordin are alive in default games.

Of the ME2 characters, all have a high likelihood of death. Thane and Legion always die, Mordin's sacrifice is the favored outcome of the genophage story, and Miranda's survival requires that quite a few conditions are met (though it's not really *hard* to obtain).

Miranda's survival is actually the only one that benefits you at all, I believe. Not much, but it is better than her death.

On a second point, there's really no evidence that Miranda's death was ever intended to be unavoidable. We have early story drafts where she survives, the survival scenario is in the leaked script, and the current content would make even less sense if her death were unavoidable (what would be the point, for example, of Persuade options that do nothing?).

I point these things out because I think the real problem is elsewhere. I would gladly accept and even enjoy a game where I had to trust Miranda and maintain close ties with her in a difficult situation in order for her to survive. It's even cool that she takes some big risks on her own.

There are huge problems with the story and characterization, though.

To the point that I try not to think about it too much or I'd probably be meeting a three-rant-per-day quota

Modifié par flemm, 15 avril 2012 - 02:32 .

[dtrain24]

So whens the Extended Cut come out anyway? Summer?

[MisterJB]

Hey, three rants per day sounds fine by me. "Yell loud enough and someone will eventually come to see what all the fuss is about."
It's apparently the only way of getting anything around here as evidenced by the SB email.

[jtav]

Miranda really needed to be a shipboard NPC and the hunt for Cronos needed to be its own arc. Toss in Grissom and Gellix. Sanctuary kicks things off and proceeds as usual, though hopefully with a little less telling instead of showing. Now that Miranda is free, she can focus on Cerberus. But she's too injured to fight and spends her time in medbay, With the loss of Henry, TIM is suffering from a serious talent drain. He hits Gellix and Grissom to get high-quality new recruits. The scientists represent a reformed Cerberus; the kids just want it gone. If an alive and loyal Miranda can reconcile them, the hoops become more tolerable.

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, three rants per day sounds fine by me. "Yell loud enough and someone will eventually come to see what all the fuss is about."
It's apparently the only way of getting anything around here as evidenced by the SB email.

Well, the real reason is that I think it's important to keep a balance

We're here because Miranda is awesome, so we need to spend some time on that.

But "yes" to making some consistent noise, I'm always in favor of that, as you know

[jtav]

I'm wondering, in all seriousness, if they could have diffused some of the anger via an epilogue slide in which Miranda is awesome and becomes an important figure. It wouldn't patch her role proper but the last we see of a character tends to stick in our minds more.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I'm wondering, in all seriousness, if they could have diffused some of the anger via an epilogue slide in which Miranda is awesome and becomes an important figure. It wouldn't patch her role proper but the last we see of a character tends to stick in our minds more.

Well, it would be like the email. Nice, but too half-hearted to cut it. I mean, a bit better than the email, I guess. But nothing can really take the place of actual content in the game.

Modifié par flemm, 15 avril 2012 - 03:00 .

[jtav]

I say that because that's the kind of fix I expect. Both because of budget reasons and because I don't really think they get the problem to begin with.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I say that because that's the kind of fix I expect. Both because of budget reasons and because I don't really think they get the problem to begin with.

Hmmm, well, I think somebody like Weekes probably gets it, at least conceptually.

It seems fairly likely that there were disagreements among the developers/writers about some of the things that Miranda is involved with (such as Cerberus, of course, notably), but also maybe Lazarus and the genetic enhancements.

That concept art entitled "Presidium Hospital" is really interesting in that regard, because the intent is obviously to show that Lazarus has led to major medical advancements.

That's a far cry from what we hear at TIM's base.

There are quite a few inconsistencies like that. For example, Miranda's codex entry suggests that she's an example of the amazing things made possible by genetic engineering. But elsewhere there are the anti-science undertones we've discussed previously.

dtrain24 wrote...

So whens the Extended Cut come out anyway? Summer?

I believe so, yeah.

Modifié par flemm, 15 avril 2012 - 03:17 .

[Dr. Doctor]

The sound files for Earth suggest that the entire squad was supposed to be fighting alongside Shepard on the way to the Conduit, rather than the vidcalls that we currently get.

Having everyone Shepard has fought alongside (other than Mordin, Legion, and Thane) join him for the march to the Conduit would have been awesome:

Miranda: Ready?

Shepard: Yeah.

Miranda: We'll hold the line here, make sure that nothing follows you up to the Citadel. Oh and Shepard?

Shepard: Hmm?

Miranda: (kisses Shepard)  Finish this. And find me.

Shepard: I promise.

[DragonEffect1710]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

The sound files for Earth suggest that the entire squad was supposed to be fighting alongside Shepard on the way to the Conduit, rather than the vidcalls that we currently get.

Having everyone Shepard has fought alongside (other than Mordin, Legion, and Thane) join him for the march to the Conduit would have been awesome:

Miranda: Ready?

Shepard: Yeah.

Miranda: We'll hold the line here, make sure that nothing follows you up to the Citadel. Oh and Shepard?

Shepard: Hmm?

Miranda: (kisses Shepard)  Finish this. And find me.

Shepard: I promise.

Why?! Why couldn't that happen?

[Skullheart]

It wouldn be more awesome if Shepard makes his last speech in front of every squaddie alive from all the games.

[dtrain24]

Or...what if there was the option to take Miri up to the Citadel with you? What do you think would happen?

[Td1984]

dtrain24 wrote...

Or...what if there was the option to take Miri up to the Citadel with you? What do you think would happen?

You'd probably end up together... in the afterlife.

Which might not be such a bad thing. If Shep has to die, why not alongside their LI?

Modifié par Td1984, 15 avril 2012 - 03:48 .