82210 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...

Maybe I used the wrong word. I mean that I don't like if Miranda realized that Cerberus (prior ME3) wasn't an organization that worked for the protection and progress of humanity.

What if Miranda realizes that The Illusive Man wants humanity to dominate the other races. Would you find that acceptable?

[The Elder King]

jtav wrote...

Heh, that's my everlasting contribution to this thread, isn't it?

Would anyone mind if I posted a snippet from a project I'm working on? I ask because Shepard and Miranda are not on good terms, and the romance is specifically discounted.

I don't see the problem. I like to read, and Miranda is one of my 5 top squadmates not only because she's my favourite LI. So I'd like to see your project.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

If Miri were to be forced back into Cerberus, to insure the safety of her sister, would she want to ensure my own safety as well since she is my LI?

And will it be possible to save her if such a situation were to be possible?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:25 .

[Ieldra]

@hhh89:
Don't remind me of the mess that's the team's response to keeping the base.

@jtav:
Shoot!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:25 .

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...
About Legion, is more or less what Mordin said, but both of them changed their position on the Normandy. I don't know what are they opinions about the CB.

Mordin didn't change his opinion. He was in favor of keeping the Base, he never said anything about giving it to Cerberus.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Maybe I used the wrong word. I mean that I don't like if Miranda realized that Cerberus (prior ME3) wasn't an organization that worked for the protection and progress of humanity.

What if Miranda realizes that The Illusive Man wants humanity to dominate the other races. Would you find that acceptable?

I don't know. Though in this case Miranda is going against TIM, not Cerberus. I know that TIM has complete control over Cerberus, but a lot of people in Cerberus (especially the Lazarus Cell)  want to protect humanity, nothing more.
If in the case you mentioned Miranda goes against TIM and then decide to become the new leader of Cerberus, leading the organization of the protection and progress of humanity, I'm fine. Miranda believes in what Cerberus represent (which is pretty much the role that commando and STG have), and while she's loyal to TIM, she isn't necessary going to agree with his hipothetical ideal of human domination.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
About Legion, is more or less what Mordin said, but both of them changed their position on the Normandy. I don't know what are they opinions about the CB.

Mordin didn't change his opinion. He was in favor of keeping the Base, he never said anything about giving it to Cerberus.

Well, in the mission we don't have the choice of giving the base to other organizations other then Cerberus, and I think it's obvious that we're going to give it to Cerberus if we keep it. So Mordin knew that we're going to give the base to Cerberus if we keep it.

Ieldra2 wrote...

@hhh89:
Don't remind me of the mess that's the team's response to keeping the base.

Yeah. What I really don't like is that everyone after the mission seemed against keeping the base. I'd have preferred if there was some different opinion between the squadmates.

Modifié par hhh89, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:34 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Maybe I used the wrong word. I mean that I don't like if Miranda realized that Cerberus (prior ME3) wasn't an organization that worked for the protection and progress of humanity.

What if Miranda realizes that The Illusive Man wants humanity to dominate the other races. Would you find that acceptable?

You mean would she find that acceptable, right? It depends. It's established she doesn't like xenophobia, on the other hand she *is* pro-human. Politically sidelining the other species' nations and making humanity "top dog" of the galaxy wouldn't be a problem for her. Active oppression and destruction of their culture would not be acceptable, to say nothing of genocide.

The problem is that "domination" has so many meanings.... 

Edit:
If someone's first post on BSN is a hate post, what does that say about that person...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:39 .

[jtav]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

If Miri were to be forced back into Cerberus, to insure the safety of her sister, would she want to ensure my own safety as well since she is my LI?

And will it be possible to save her if such a situation were to be possible?

She would probably be your nominal enemy, though I doubt she would try very hard to bring you down. And I expect you would be able to extricate her from that situation.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Possible. If a situation like this does occur, which I certainly hope will NOT, it better not be anything impossible to solve, resulting in Miri's death.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:43 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Post deleted

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:41 .

[The Elder King]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You mean would she find that acceptable, right? It depends. It's established she doesn't like xenophobia, on the other hand she *is* pro-human. Politically sidelining the other species' nations and making humanity "top dog" of the galaxy wouldn't be a problem for her. Active oppression and destruction of their culture would not be acceptable, to say nothing of genocide.

The problem is that "domination" has so many meanings.... 

Well, making the humanity the "top dog" of the galaxy" is something that the humanity is trying to do too. There is a reason if the other species look at us as aggressive. I don't see the problem with Miranda on supporting this.
I pretty much agree with you. Being xenophobic and oppressing other cultures isn't something that in my opinion Miranda agrees on.

[jtav]

It's a BW game. You'll be fine.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I'm just stating an honest opinion. If any event like this were to occur, which may cause Miri to die, then I will most definitely abandon the game. Doing this will be due to the fact that BioWare was lying to me, and I sincerely hope that they weren't.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:45 .

[robboelrobbo]

Miranda is cool, but I'll admit to dumping her for Tali. trolololo

[AresXX7]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AresXX7 wrote...
Would anyone object to Miranda leaving Cerberus because they/TIM tried to use Oriana as a means to keep her in the organization? Rather than 'seeing the light' or indoctrination.

What I mean is; if she were told, or found evidence, that her sister's safety depended on her loyalty, and she decided to secure Oriana elsewhere then leave them for crossing that line.

That way, you don't have another 'rescue Miranda's sister' plotline, because she took care of it herself, but you are given reason for her departure. (the part of her relocating Oriana could be used as to why she isn't present during the trial)

I would support that if she had evidence that Cerberus plans to blackmail her if her loyalty is in question after being with Shepard. Loyalty goes both ways. If the organization you have been loyal to betrays you like this, They have lost any right to your loyalty. What she'd do about it is another question - they might be a benefit to staying for a while - but Cerberus would lose her, even if they wouldn't know it yet.

It's one thing to know such things might happen, and another to realize that it's planned.

I was referring to the part in TIM's post-mission summary - and were there any documentation that may suggest what plan(s) would be implemented, should she decide to leave:

Miranda’s sister and her family successfully placed at (LOCATION REDACTED). Mother’s new job pays well and enough to ensure comfort and ease. Will keep Oriana under observation for her safety only. Miranda Lawson is too valuable to Cerberus, and Oriana’s well being is easiest means of procuring loyalty.

Of course, until we're told otherwise, or come March 6, 2012 - it's all just speculation.
I'm just trying to think of something that doesn't betray her character too much.

MisterJB wrote...
Miranda may have faith in TIM but she is not an idiot. She knows Oriana's safety depends on the work she does for Cerberus.

My impression is - she sees her sister's safety more as a benefit than a necessity.
Nor do I see any relation to her intelligence in this matter. Afterall, whether one likes TIM, or not, he is a master manipulator/planner & you have to give him credit for that
But that's just my 2 cents.

[The Elder King]

robboelrobbo wrote...

Miranda is cool, but I'll admit to dumping her for Tali. trolololo

People like different things. I like Tali as a squadmate, but I never romanced her. I never saw her fit for the Shepard I created. She's the only female LI I never romanced.

[AresXX7]

jtav wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

If Miri were to be forced back into Cerberus, to insure the safety of her sister, would she want to ensure my own safety as well since she is my LI?

And will it be possible to save her if such a situation were to be possible?

She would probably be your nominal enemy, though I doubt she would try very hard to bring you down. And I expect you would be able to extricate her from that situation.

I hope they don't that route again.
It worked for KOTOR, but it would be terrible and incredibly weak for ME IMHO.
(and this is coming from a die-hard SW fan)

[ISpeakTheTruth]

She wouldn't be workng with Cerberus because they have her sister kidnapped. Miranda's a smart woman she'd be able to put two and two together. If she workds with Cerberus to stop Shepard than the Reapers will win and Oriana will be turned into Reaper paste anyway.

I don't want all of Miranda's time to be consumed with her sister and I don't want a recycled loyalty mission for her. Let her be doing her own thing.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It's more about what happens with Miranda. If they make it appear as if any growing dissatisfaction with Cerberus of her is grounded in her moving from the pragmatic to the moralistic, in some kind of "character reform" or "seeing the light" scenario, then that will destroy her for me. Miranda is - as in jtav's famous expression - the "morally ambiguous superspy". If she moves significantly away from that, she won't be the Miranda I love anymore.

No, I understood that and I partially argee with you. What I'm asking is where exactly are you drawying the line?
Miranda was never 100% pragmatic. What is stopping the experiments on the Rachni if not taking a moral stance?
The things I'm afraid of seeing are something like Miranda apologizing for wanting to put a control chip in Shepard or risking a mission because of the safety of the troops.

hhh89 wrote...

Well, in the mission we don't have the choice of giving the base to other organizations other then Cerberus, and I think it's obvious that we're going to give it to Cerberus if we keep it. So Mordin knew that we're going to give the base to Cerberus if we keep it.

If Miranda or EDI or the original team didn't foward any intel on the Reaper's IFF, the Normandy should be the only ship capable of travelling through the Omega 4 Relay.

Ieldra2 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Maybe I used the wrong word. I mean that I don't like if Miranda realized that Cerberus (prior ME3) wasn't an organization that worked for the protection and progress of humanity.

What if Miranda realizes that The Illusive Man wants humanity to dominate the other races. Would you find that acceptable?

You mean would she find that acceptable, right?

No, I did mean 89.

It's established she doesn't like xenophobia, on the other hand she *is* pro-human. Politically sidelining the other species' nations and making humanity "top dog" of the galaxy wouldn't be a problem for her. Active oppression and destruction of their culture would not be acceptable, to say nothing of genocide.

That seems plausible.

[Ieldra]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
She wouldn't be workng with Cerberus because they have her sister kidnapped. Miranda's a smart woman she'd be able to put two and two together. If she workds with Cerberus to stop Shepard than the Reapers will win and Oriana will be turned into Reaper paste anyway.

I don't want all of Miranda's time to be consumed with her sister and I don't want a recycled loyalty mission for her. Let her be doing her own thing.

I agree. Oriana has played her role as Miranda's morality pet in ME2. We don't need that again. There may be foreshadowing, but I hope the shadows won't materialize.

[Vertigo_1]

MisterJB wrote...
If Miranda or EDI or the original team didn't foward any intel on the Reaper's IFF, the Normandy should be the only ship capable of travelling through the Omega 4 Relay.

Just want to interject on this and mention that in the comic they state Cerberus establishes a base beyond the Omega-4 relay after the events of the SM.

I'm thinking Cerberus got data from the team on that derelict mission on the IFF and found a way to get past the relay whether or not you kept/destroyed the base.

(Unless I misread your post)

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:07 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
If Miranda or EDI or the original team didn't foward any intel on the Reaper's IFF, the Normandy should be the only ship capable of travelling through the Omega 4 Relay.

Just want to interject on this and mention that in the comic they state Cerberus establishes a base beyond the Omega-4 relay after the events of the SM.

(Unless I misread your post)

Wait... even if you blow that base to hell?

[Vertigo_1]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
If Miranda or EDI or the original team didn't foward any intel on the Reaper's IFF, the Normandy should be the only ship capable of travelling through the Omega 4 Relay.

Just want to interject on this and mention that in the comic they state Cerberus establishes a base beyond the Omega-4 relay after the events of the SM.

(Unless I misread your post)

Wait... even if you blow that base to hell?

Yes.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Well, in the mission we don't have the choice of giving the base to other organizations other then Cerberus, and I think it's obvious that we're going to give it to Cerberus if we keep it. So Mordin knew that we're going to give the base to Cerberus if we keep it.

If Miranda or EDI or the original team didn't foward any intel on the Reaper's IFF, the Normandy should be the only ship capable of travelling through the Omega 4 Relay.

I agree, but Miranda works for Cerberus. And the discussion between Shepard and TIM was about the fact that Shepard didn't trust him enough to give him the base (if the up dialogue choice is choosen, I don't remember the other choices), then TIM replied, and then the two companion spoke their opinions.