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[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
And we can't even upbraid him properly because he's a newbie. But who the hell thought it was a good idea to assign a newbie to write a multifaceted character like Miranda? And who made the decision to keep Miranda away from Cronos Station?

In all actuality he did a pretty good job writing her, the whole death/Cronos Station thing falls along the crit path side of the equation. As previously stated Miranda failed the "Walters' Favorite Character" test.

He was responsible for Miranda's story arc feeling like LM 2.0 and that her concern was mainly about family, which is one of three main failings of her presence in ME3. He may also be responsible for the fact that the confrontation with her father was so unsatisfying. Two words from her to him, none of him to her - the second of three main failings. No further comment.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 avril 2012 - 07:16 .

[flemm]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

In all actuality he did a pretty good job writing her, the whole death/Cronos Station thing falls along the crit path side of the equation. As previously stated Miranda failed the "Walters' Favorite Character" test.

It really depends on how much creative control he had in terms of what could be addressed. Also on who was responsable for coming up with something interesting for the father (and not doing so).

The role is not well-written in the sense that there is ample opportunity for some development of Miranda's major character traits, but none of it happens. So, the only excuse for that would be a directive to avoid them.

For structural things like the scale of Miranda's role, he wouldn't have made the decisions.

Modifié par flemm, 19 avril 2012 - 07:17 .

[jtav]

Sanctuary is a bad mission anyway. Everything is told instead of shown. Imagine if you actually saw some partially-husked refugees. The mission should turn your stomach, but the most interesting thing is the Saber. Give me a break. Sanctuary should have been the ME version of the liberation of Dachau.

[kookie28]

jtav wrote...

Sanctuary is a bad mission anyway. Everything is told instead of shown. Imagine if you actually saw some partially-husked refugees. The mission should turn your stomach, but the most interesting thing is the Saber. Give me a break. Sanctuary should have been the ME version of the liberation of Dachau.

Where's the Saber? I never saw it.

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

Sanctuary is a bad mission anyway. Everything is told instead of shown. Imagine if you actually saw some partially-husked refugees. The mission should turn your stomach, but the most interesting thing is the Saber. Give me a break. Sanctuary should have been the ME version of the liberation of Dachau.

Yeah, at most you get to hear someone getting turned via audio log (too many of those in that mission IMO).  That mission felt rushed to me (and it had the potential to be great too).  And, Saber is definately awesome

As for Cronos Station...who'd replace her if she's dead in you game? You have to take these things into account
Though, it would be pretty awesome if that turned out to be Oriana (still a bit off for her character)

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 19 avril 2012 - 07:28 .

[jtav]

I still like the idea of Lazarus or cloning (Henry experiment?) bringing her back. Only the clone is defective and will always die at mission's end.

[dtrain24]

Say if in the DLC, Miranda finds Shepard, alive. Like the destroy ending. What music do you think they should play?

I was either thinking 1:06 and on of From the Wreckage  
or
1:45 and on in I Was Lost Without You

Thoughts?

[Dr. Doctor]

@ Vertigo

Our friendly neighborhood fembot.

Miranda going to Cronos would have made sense. That and TIM's "This isn't Cerberus. Cerberus is an idea, and ideas aren't so easily destroyed." would have been a great way to allude that Miranda could restart the organization.

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...

Sanctuary is a bad mission anyway. Everything is told instead of shown. Imagine if you actually saw some partially-husked refugees. The mission should turn your stomach, but the most interesting thing is the Saber. Give me a break. Sanctuary should have been the ME version of the liberation of Dachau.

Because this can't be repeated enough. Ever since it was announced, I have always defended the concept of Sanctuary. I was extremely hyped to see it.
It's could be seen as an moral event horizon but, at the same time, it is not outside of the realms of possibility for Cerberus as they were extablished in ME2 and it does a good job of explaining the size of their army.
And, ultimately, it fits perfectly with Miranda much like Grissom academy does with Jack. But, while Grissom academy was great and the similarities between Jack's past and what Cerberus was trying to do were explored, the same never happened with Miranda and Sanctuary. The Control Chip conversation would have fit with Sanctuary perfectly.

And, the mission just feels underwhelming all around. You spend most of the time roaming through an abandoned base, listening to videologs and killing the same enemies you have encountered before.
Still alive refugees living in poor conditions, ongoing battles between Cerberus and the Reapers, partially husked refugees or Cerberus-Indocrinated soldiers outside of their armors begging Shepard to kill them; you should have encountered all of this in Sanctuary.
Instead it is...well, boring.

kookie28 wrote...
Where's the Saber? I never saw it.

In the last room before the elevator, trapped inside one of the pods. You need to activate the release command before you can retrieve it.

[MisterJB]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

@ Vertigo

Our friendly neighborhood fembot.

Miranda going to Cronos would have made sense. That and TIM's "This isn't Cerberus. Cerberus is an idea, and ideas aren't so easily destroyed." would have been a great way to allude that Miranda could restart the organization.

That bothers me SO much. I want Shepard to say something along the lines "The idea behind Cerberus is a good one, something I can support. "Protection and Advancement of the human species". But you corrupted it!"
The closest we have "Cerberus was supposed to be humanity's sword. Not a dagger behind its back."

[Vertigo_1]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

@ Vertigo

Our friendly neighborhood fembot.

Miranda going to Cronos would have made sense. That and TIM's "This isn't Cerberus. Cerberus is an idea, and ideas aren't so easily destroyed." would have been a great way to allude that Miranda could restart the organization.

You mean have it play out as it does now? Sure, I can see that.  They did something similar with Samara's mission.  If she's dead in ME3 that mission plays out as usual.  There's no replacement for her like there is for Mordin.

[hot_heart]

dtrain24 wrote...

Say if in the DLC, Miranda finds Shepard, alive. Like the destroy ending. What music do you think they should play?

I was either thinking 1:06 and on of From the Wreckage  
or
1:45 and on in I Was Lost Without You

Thoughts?

Tough call. I think From The Wreckage might need some reworking to fit with the slightly altered tone of ME3 but I always love that main bit of the theme whenever I hear it.

I do love the second one (and I'd preface it with the piano bit from Miranda's romance scene before it all swells up into a full orchestra) but it always struck me more as a song about loss, and valuing what time you had left, more than victory.

[Skullheart]

It's improbable to see any content of Mianda in the extended cut. It will only have more cutscenes or vid to explain the plotholes from the endings.

I wanted something for Miranda, but knowing they never cared about her character (delegating a complex character to a rookie), I know that is better not having any more hopes.

Miranda died betwen ME2 and ME3. The thing in ME3 is an impostor.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

@ Vertigo

Our friendly neighborhood fembot.

Miranda going to Cronos would have made sense. That and TIM's "This isn't Cerberus. Cerberus is an idea, and ideas aren't so easily destroyed." would have been a great way to allude that Miranda could restart the organization.

That bothers me SO much. I want Shepard to say something along the lines "The idea behind Cerberus is a good one, something I can support. "Protection and Advancement of the human species". But you corrupted it!"
The closest we have "Cerberus was supposed to be humanity's sword. Not a dagger behind its back."

Actually, that was close enough to be OK. Not really satisfying, but good enough that I won't complain too loudly. Miranda not bringing it up, that's a different story. Epic writing failure.

BTW, I just shot Mordin again. The genophage story is impressive, but again it's bothering me that it's written to trigger emotions instead of making you think. As if there was a natural right to have as many children as you want without regard to the bigger picture. I don't feel guilty because I sabotaged the cure. I only feel bad because I had to shoot Mordin, and because I couldn't afford to be honest about the whole thing. 

[Dr. Doctor]

In playthroughs where Wreav's in charge I sabotage the cure. There's no way in hell I'm giving that idiot a cure when he's most likely going to go on a rampage after the war's over.

[dtrain24]

hot_heart wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

Say if in the DLC, Miranda finds Shepard, alive. Like the destroy ending. What music do you think they should play?

I was either thinking 1:06 and on of From the Wreckage  
or
1:45 and on in I Was Lost Without You

Thoughts?

Tough call. I think From The Wreckage might need some reworking to fit with the slightly altered tone of ME3 but I always love that main bit of the theme whenever I hear it.

I do love the second one (and I'd preface it with the piano bit from Miranda's romance scene before it all swells up into a full orchestra) but it always struck me more as a song about loss, and valuing what time you had left, more than victory.

I agree. The reason I didn't make a choice myself was because I still can't decide. I agree From The Wreckage could use a slight rework as you said. Unless Vigil's theme didn't get reworked, because that still sounded beautiful in ME3.
And I hear what you're saying for I Was Lost Without You. But the title suggests otherwise. It basically suggests Shepard comes back to Miranda. The past tense implies it.
Unless anyone else has any suggestions, I personally would love either theme for a reunion between Miri and her Sheploo.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
BTW, I just shot Mordin again. The genophage story is impressive, but again it's bothering me that it's written to trigger emotions instead of making you think. As if there was a natural right to have as many children as you want without regard to the bigger picture. I don't feel guilty because I sabotaged the cure. I only feel bad because I had to shoot Mordin, and because I couldn't afford to be honest about the whole thing. 

It's not a case of the krogan reproducing without any regard for the other species. The game makes it clear that, so long the Genophage exists, the krogan are heading for a slow but inevitable extinction.

Now, you could make the claim that this needs not be true. The genophage still allows the krogan to maintain a stable population even if the great majority of krogan females are infertile. However, it is clear that the genophage has brought a cultural change to the krogan that ensures their extinction.
And, tragically, the one person that could, realistically, bring about the change in culture that the krogan need to survive, Wrex, MUST die if you sabotage the cure.
If I could convince Wrex and Bakara to focus on changing the outlook of their people without curing the genophage, I'd consider picking it. However, as it stand, I can't condemn a race to extinction based on what might happen. Not when there are two powerful and wise enough leaders to prevent another Krogan Rebellions.

Modifié par MisterJB, 19 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[hot_heart]

dtrain24 wrote...
And I hear what you're saying for I Was Lost Without You. But the title suggests otherwise. It basically suggests Shepard comes back to Miranda. The past tense implies it.

I've always considered the title open to interpretation though. It could refer to how they felt during the time Shepard had spent incarcerated (except for Jacob), or even that a lot of the LIs were losers incapable of meaningful relationships before Shepard came along.

And I was speaking more in regards to what I took from the music itself, in the given context, more than the title. Again, though, that can vary from person to person.

[Td1984]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

In playthroughs where Wreav's in charge I sabotage the cure. There's no way in hell I'm giving that idiot a cure when he's most likely going to go on a rampage after the war's over.

I'd do the same thing, except Wrex is alive in all my playthroughs. I can trust Wrex, but Wreav is an idiot. The only way I'd have a playthrough with Wrex dead so I can sabotage the cure would be if I started a Shep from scratch with ME2.

[dtrain24]

hot_heart wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...
And I hear what you're saying for I Was Lost Without You. But the title suggests otherwise. It basically suggests Shepard comes back to Miranda. The past tense implies it.

I've always considered the title open to interpretation though. It could refer to how they felt during the time Shepard had spent incarcerated (except for Jacob), or even that a lot of the LIs were losers incapable of meaningful relationships before Shepard came along.

And I was speaking more in regards to what I took from the music itself, in the given context, more than the title. Again, though, that can vary from person to person.

Yep, its all about opinions.
And speaking of which, I still haven't made one regarding which theme would be better for that moment.

[yesikareyes]

Skullheart wrote...

It's improbable to see any content of Mianda in the extended cut. It will only have more cutscenes or vid to explain the plotholes from the endings.

I wanted something for Miranda, but knowing they never cared about her character (delegating a complex character to a rookie), I know that is better not having any more hopes.

Miranda died betwen ME2 and ME3. The thing in ME3 is an impostor.

Don't say that! I'm hoping that Miranda would appear in the Extended Cut DLC. She is after all a love interest and that's too drastic if they don't include EVEN IF IT'S JUST 5 SECONDS OF HER. I just want to know that she's okay. 

[Ares91]

Just wanted to post

Modifié par Ares91, 19 avril 2012 - 09:30 .

[dtrain24]

@ Ares
That picture never gets old.

[kookie28]

yesikareyes wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

It's improbable to see any content of Mianda in the extended cut. It will only have more cutscenes or vid to explain the plotholes from the endings.

I wanted something for Miranda, but knowing they never cared about her character (delegating a complex character to a rookie), I know that is better not having any more hopes.

Miranda died betwen ME2 and ME3. The thing in ME3 is an impostor.

Don't say that! I'm hoping that Miranda would appear in the Extended Cut DLC. She is after all a love interest and that's too drastic if they don't include EVEN IF IT'S JUST 5 SECONDS OF HER. I just want to know that she's okay. 

If they were telling the truth about the epilogues being more "personalized" then we can assume Miranda has an appearance of some kind. How large it is, possibilities for a reunion, etc are still up in the air though.

[jtav]

I'd imagine that the flashback will be fixed. We also might get a silent reunion scene with shared animations. If we're really lucky, we'll get an epilogue card.