For Some reason EDI reminds me of Miri on the Battlefield. (This is not just because of her Black Outfit). Anyone else have that same feeling sometimes?
"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3
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jtav
, juin 13 2011 05:39
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#47452
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 08:30
o Ventus
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MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
For Some reason EDI reminds me of Miri on the Battlefield. (This is not just because of her Black Outfit). Anyone else have that same feeling sometimes?
Kinda/Sorta.
In the sense that both of them are female former Cerberus operatives (In EDI's case, a former Cerberus AI program). They are not alike at all in terms of combat prowess (Aside from the two of them using the same weapon loadout). I think Miranda is infinitely more useful in combat.
#47453
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:29
DJC123
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Hey everyone,
I just read how there were so few letters regarding Miranda so I thought I'd add my voice. I'm not sure where to send it to, so I figured I'd just post it here.
Dear Bioware,
First off, thank you for making the Mass Effect games.
All together you have made a wonderful series, and one I hope you're proud of. The world of Mass Effect is rich with clever technology, in-depth world building, and interesting characters...but the heart of the series is in the characters, and this is why I chose to write this letter: because some of the characters of Mass Effect 2 (and one character in particular) didn't make the transition from ME2 to ME3. At least not intact.
Let me just preface my remarks by acknowledging that I understand that ending ME2 with a suicide mission made some interesting development problems. I realize that the cast of ME2 was very large, and that it's a difficult and expensive task to account for the many variables and choices made during each playthrough, with each of those characters, and to then to translate those choices into meaningful story material. Frankly, I'm impressed with how well you connected the dots while maintaining the illusion of choice. That is a fine line to walk, and it's a line you walked well.
My only real issue with ME3 is how my LI from ME2 (Miranda) was treated. She was an important part of my experience of ME2, and her secondary role in ME3 made the game feel empty. I'd constantly walk around the Normandy (with its now much darker lighting) and find myself unconsciously heading toward Miranda's office to check up on her (as I obsessively did during ME2). I'd enter her office, find Liara there, and walk away disappointed.
Each time I did this the Normandy felt hollow. It felt like a shell of the ship that used to be filled with my friends.
I enjoyed the Mass Effect series because it gave me the illusion of choice, and nothing destroyed this illusion more than losing Miranda. She was the character I chose to care about. She was the person my Shepard decided would make his life better. It's not that his romance with her was the main point of the game, not at all, the main point of the game was to save the galaxy and all that, but saving the galaxy was given emotional content by saving the people I loved in the galaxy, and that's hard when the person I care about most in the galaxy isn't with me.
And this is what I don't understand. After the Cronos mission she was injured and she needed help, but she just leaves (when I have a great doctor on board the Normandy). She should have stayed with me.
As I stated earlier I understand difficult choices needed to be made, but I just don't see why LIs were the place to cut. Ancillary characters gain momentum and complexity and become difficult...cut them freely. But those characters we choose to love should be protected. That is a choice above all others that should be respected. Without those we love the emotional center of the story is lost.
Long before ME3 was released I became involved in making sure I saw Miranda again. When I read she was going to return for ME3 I was very happy. I assumed she'd be a main character and probably a squad member due to her large role (and sheer difficulty to kill) in ME2.
I was very surprised when I discovered she was relegated to a minor character.
I was even more surprised when she returned to the femme fatale trope. It's not that she didn't have sprinklings of that in ME2, it's just that she grew past that as part of the story, so it was a strange regression to see her placed back in an old story formula. She was an interesting character because she subverted the trope, not because she exemplified it.
For my Shepard, Miranda confirmed his purpose. Miranda had a dark history with one bad role model after another. She was cold and cynical, but by nature a good person. Her ideals were good in principle, but poor in execution. From my Shepard she was able to better redirect her abilities, refine her principles, and flower into an amazing person.She started off as a femme fatale with the potential to walk my character down a dark path (as is the convention of the trope), but instead, she saw the value in my character's path, and when given the opportunity, chose to walk it with him.
At least, that's how I saw it.
Miranda was a wonderful character. I know for a fact that when my Shepard's life passed before his eyes, her would have seen her face above all others, and knowing she was safe, he would have smiled during the chaos.
I really wish she could have had a larger role in my playthrough of ME3. That would have made the game nearly perfect for me. Love covers a multitude of sins, and, I guess, in the case of this game, maybe even plotholes.
Sincerely,
Dan
I just read how there were so few letters regarding Miranda so I thought I'd add my voice. I'm not sure where to send it to, so I figured I'd just post it here.
Dear Bioware,
First off, thank you for making the Mass Effect games.
All together you have made a wonderful series, and one I hope you're proud of. The world of Mass Effect is rich with clever technology, in-depth world building, and interesting characters...but the heart of the series is in the characters, and this is why I chose to write this letter: because some of the characters of Mass Effect 2 (and one character in particular) didn't make the transition from ME2 to ME3. At least not intact.
Let me just preface my remarks by acknowledging that I understand that ending ME2 with a suicide mission made some interesting development problems. I realize that the cast of ME2 was very large, and that it's a difficult and expensive task to account for the many variables and choices made during each playthrough, with each of those characters, and to then to translate those choices into meaningful story material. Frankly, I'm impressed with how well you connected the dots while maintaining the illusion of choice. That is a fine line to walk, and it's a line you walked well.
My only real issue with ME3 is how my LI from ME2 (Miranda) was treated. She was an important part of my experience of ME2, and her secondary role in ME3 made the game feel empty. I'd constantly walk around the Normandy (with its now much darker lighting) and find myself unconsciously heading toward Miranda's office to check up on her (as I obsessively did during ME2). I'd enter her office, find Liara there, and walk away disappointed.
Each time I did this the Normandy felt hollow. It felt like a shell of the ship that used to be filled with my friends.
I enjoyed the Mass Effect series because it gave me the illusion of choice, and nothing destroyed this illusion more than losing Miranda. She was the character I chose to care about. She was the person my Shepard decided would make his life better. It's not that his romance with her was the main point of the game, not at all, the main point of the game was to save the galaxy and all that, but saving the galaxy was given emotional content by saving the people I loved in the galaxy, and that's hard when the person I care about most in the galaxy isn't with me.
And this is what I don't understand. After the Cronos mission she was injured and she needed help, but she just leaves (when I have a great doctor on board the Normandy). She should have stayed with me.
As I stated earlier I understand difficult choices needed to be made, but I just don't see why LIs were the place to cut. Ancillary characters gain momentum and complexity and become difficult...cut them freely. But those characters we choose to love should be protected. That is a choice above all others that should be respected. Without those we love the emotional center of the story is lost.
Long before ME3 was released I became involved in making sure I saw Miranda again. When I read she was going to return for ME3 I was very happy. I assumed she'd be a main character and probably a squad member due to her large role (and sheer difficulty to kill) in ME2.
I was very surprised when I discovered she was relegated to a minor character.
I was even more surprised when she returned to the femme fatale trope. It's not that she didn't have sprinklings of that in ME2, it's just that she grew past that as part of the story, so it was a strange regression to see her placed back in an old story formula. She was an interesting character because she subverted the trope, not because she exemplified it.
For my Shepard, Miranda confirmed his purpose. Miranda had a dark history with one bad role model after another. She was cold and cynical, but by nature a good person. Her ideals were good in principle, but poor in execution. From my Shepard she was able to better redirect her abilities, refine her principles, and flower into an amazing person.She started off as a femme fatale with the potential to walk my character down a dark path (as is the convention of the trope), but instead, she saw the value in my character's path, and when given the opportunity, chose to walk it with him.
At least, that's how I saw it.
Miranda was a wonderful character. I know for a fact that when my Shepard's life passed before his eyes, her would have seen her face above all others, and knowing she was safe, he would have smiled during the chaos.
I really wish she could have had a larger role in my playthrough of ME3. That would have made the game nearly perfect for me. Love covers a multitude of sins, and, I guess, in the case of this game, maybe even plotholes.
Sincerely,
Dan
#47454
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:32
cbutz
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@DJC123 Send it to masseffectlia@gmail.com.
#47455
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:39
Dr. Doctor
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MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
For Some reason EDI reminds me of Miri on the Battlefield. (This is not just because of her Black Outfit). Anyone else have that same feeling sometimes?
Not really. From a tactial standpoint I don't have any reason to take EDI in a squad. She's really fragile and while Defense Matrix slightly increases survivability it really slows down her power recharge rate and even still there are much better options for tech power oriented squadmates.
If I had Miranda back in ME3 she wouldn't be leaving my squad ever. As a LI I like her, but her ability to strip shields and armor, along with giving the squad health and damage bonuses is what I love about her.
#47456
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:41
o Ventus
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Dr. Doctor wrote...
MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
For Some reason EDI reminds me of Miri on the Battlefield. (This is not just because of her Black Outfit). Anyone else have that same feeling sometimes?
Not really. From a tactial standpoint I don't have any reason to take EDI in a squad. She's really fragile and while Defense Matrix slightly increases survivability it really slows down her power recharge rate and even still there are much better options for tech power oriented squadmates.
If I had Miranda back in ME3 she wouldn't be leaving my squad ever. As a LI I like her, but her ability to strip shields and armor, along with giving the squad health and damage bonuses is what I love about her.
Agreed, 100%.
Miranda was OP when it came to stripping enemy defenses, as she could remove all 3 of them, and her weapons were effective against 2 of them. Shame you couldn't max out every single power in ME2, or she would be even more ridiculously overpowered, with Slam 1-hitting everyone with maxed-out damage.
#47457
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:47
MrNose
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I always felt that Miri's power in ME2 was a great way for the writers to use the game mechanics to show how she really was perfectly designed. She had the tools to defeat any type of enemy.
...Any enemy but a lack of resources for ME3
...Any enemy but a lack of resources for ME3
#47458
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:53
Stalker
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@DJC123
You have written a pretty long letter, but from my understanding the second book "The Tribute" was supposed to be all around roleplaying.
Example:
You could contribute it in the Miranda specific fanbook, however.
You have written a pretty long letter, but from my understanding the second book "The Tribute" was supposed to be all around roleplaying.
Example:
Dear BioWare,
My Jaine Shepard was a colonist and "Ruthless". She had seen some terrible things, and done some terrible things. She romanced Kaidan during the hunt for Saren, but he was too "good" for her. To Jaine, he had made one mistake by accident a long time ago, and she had made many bad decisions on purpose, and just couldn't seem to let it go.
When Jaine woke up on the Lazarus station, she saw it as a chance to do better and move forward without the iron fetters to her past. She still had that hard edge, that tendency to lash out when diplomacy might have suited better, but instead of beating herself up over it, she just used to fuel her desire to be different. This was her new chance, she wasn't going to screw it up.
Seeing Kaidan on Horizon was, difficult. She had "hardened" Garrus during their time on the SR1, so meeting up with him wasn't so awkward. But Kaidan; he had changed and it wasn't her fault. Worse, he blamed her for it. She hadn't chose to die, to leave him mourning her for two years! She'd been dragged back from death to do her damn job and despite her determination to do better, she wasn't about to take the blame and all the mental anguish that goes with it, for something she didn't do. Jaine was done with Kaidan; his email was an insult and she didn't respond.
When she met Thane, the half-harnessed beast inside her, calmed inside its' cage. She couldn't get the image of his cool stare, his body outlined by the red and orange light of dawn, out of her head. He was very sure of himself, and his skills. The news of his terminal illness, his eventual death- if the suicide mission didn't do it- she swatted it away like an insect.
She was determined to get to know him and quickly found herself developing feelings for the drell. Jaine was the Butcher of Torfan, but she wasn't racist, and wasn't concerned with his history; for a long time, she had considered the military a means by which to murder many, only with ribbons of honor and duty and patriotism tied to it. Jaine saw no difference between her occupation and Thane's. She had no problem loving an alien, and seized each day with a ferocious joy; to do what she'd been brought back to do, to save people and stop the Reapers, and to spend every free moment she could with Thane. Because he was her equal. She couldn't push him around, he could hold his own in combat and conversation. He understood what terrible deeds done in the past do to a body, but like Jaine, he was trying to live in the present.
This is why I can't accept the culmination of Thane and Shepard's relationship in Mass Effect 3. Shepard doesn't get to say the things she should have been able to say; she doesn't get to tell Thane she loves him. She doesn't get any opportunity to show some emotion at his deathbed; denial, tears, anger. She doesn't get to express disbelief that nothing still can be done for Thane, or demand why other treatment options aren't available. I loved nearly everything about the Thane romance in ME2; I only wish I could say the same for its' conclusion in ME3.
You could contribute it in the Miranda specific fanbook, however.
#47459
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:55
o Ventus
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MrNose wrote...
I always felt that Miri's power in ME2 was a great way for the writers to use the game mechanics to show how she really was perfectly designed. She had the tools to defeat any type of enemy.
...Any enemy but a lack of resources for ME3
Resource prioritization and distribution, more like. Miranda mentions Cerberus a whopping total of once, effectively killing off half of her character, but a random faceless salarian has 17 variations of "Don't touch that!". What the hell?
#47460
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 09:55
MASSEFFECTfanforlife101
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About Miri and EDI: You are right.
Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 21 avril 2012 - 10:07 .
#47461
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:01
jtav
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I don't think Miranda ever stood a chance of squad status even with more development time. They wanted a smaller squad, which meant two humans tops.
#47462
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:06
Td1984
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Of my other 3 Sheps, 2 of them (my Spacers) destroyed it. My other one (My Renegon Colonist/Ruthless FShep) kept it. I'll probably have Thomas keep it too (on both his Soldier & Sentinel versions). That way I'll have 2 of each and it'll fit with the dialogue I posted in the fanbook group, so I won't have to make a serious change to it.o Ventus wrote...
Td1984 wrote...
So, knowing what we now know about TIM in ME3, is there anybody who still saves the Collector Base, or would still save it? Just wondering since I'm considering doing so on my canon run with Thomas.
I've always destroyed it.
inb4 "use the enemy's own tech against them!"-
Even without metagaming, you can tell that TIM is one of those people who would give less of a rat's ass about you (Or anyone else) to get what he wants. Trusting him with that sort of technology is just foolish. If it were Shepard, or another, more familiar organization (Alliance, for instance), I could better understand.
#47463
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:07
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jtav wrote...
I don't think Miranda ever stood a chance of squad status even with more development time. They wanted a smaller squad, which meant two humans tops.
Yeah, and they bothered to create a new character which, as predicted, fails to garner any noteworthy praise from anyone (Vega), and make a pre-existing character into a squadmate, which, as predicted, failed to garner any noteworthy praise from anyone (EDI).
The whole "They wanted a smaller squad" holds little water. Just because they capped out at 7-8 doesn't magically have a cap on the number:species ratio of your squad mates.
#47464
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:11
jtav
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Aliens are flashy and tend to garner more excitement from casuals. And James and EDI or something like them had to exist so players could have all their bases covered regardless of who survived the SM.
*looks at Ash* I'm not really sure I'd like Miranda the ME3 squaddie anyway.
*looks at Ash* I'm not really sure I'd like Miranda the ME3 squaddie anyway.
#47465
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:13
Stalker
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I had the impression that those who joined the ME3-squad (EDI,Vega,Javiik) were strictly listed after fan-request. Miranda simply hasn't made it to the top.
The only fan-favorites who weren't official squadmates were Mordin and Legion, but they were essential for their own race conflicts. They technically even were squadmates up until their death.
The only fan-favorites who weren't official squadmates were Mordin and Legion, but they were essential for their own race conflicts. They technically even were squadmates up until their death.
Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 avril 2012 - 10:14 .
#47466
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:13
o Ventus
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For some reason, I think she would be improved with the increased screen time and dialogue that comes with screen time.
At the very least, something badass that she might do (like the fighters) would happen on-screen, instead of out of nowhere.
At the very least, something badass that she might do (like the fighters) would happen on-screen, instead of out of nowhere.
#47467
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:15
Skullheart
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The fighter thing was control damage...
#47468
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:16
o Ventus
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Skullheart wrote...
The fighter thing was control damage...
Not my point. Even if it WAS damage control, it would have been much more epic actually seeing it transpire (which may have happend if she was atleast a temp), instead of just receiving it through an obscure letter that most people won't even read.
Modifié par o Ventus, 21 avril 2012 - 10:19 .
#47469
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:17
Babi_Siha
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o Ventus wrote...
jtav wrote...
I don't think Miranda ever stood a chance of squad status even with more development time. They wanted a smaller squad, which meant two humans tops.
Yeah, and they bothered to create a new character which, as predicted, fails to garner any noteworthy praise from anyone (Vega), and make a pre-existing character into a squadmate, which, as predicted, failed to garner any noteworthy praise from anyone (EDI).
The whole "They wanted a smaller squad" holds little water. Just because they capped out at 7-8 doesn't magically have a cap on the number:species ratio of your squad mates.
Couldn't agre more. Vega was a stupid character and completely unecessary, shame BW decided to create him for new players. EDI, while she's awesome, as a a squad member she just didn't feel right.
#47470
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:24
Babi_Siha
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Mr Massakka wrote...
I had the impression that those who joined the ME3-squad (EDI,Vega,Javiik) were strictly listed after fan-request. Miranda simply hasn't made it to the top.
The only fan-favorites who weren't official squadmates were Mordin and Legion, but they were essential for their own race conflicts. They technically even were squadmates up until their death.
Weekes said that Vega was a character they created so that new players could feel femiliar with, it had nothin to o with fan request. About Javik, I could be wrong, but I don't recall seing people askin for a prothean squad.
About fan favorites, Miranda is definitely among them. She's certainly more popular than the VS and in ME2 she was te most popular squad member along with Tali, Garrus and Legion (though I could be wrong about that, I'm simply stating this based on the polls I've seen).
#47471
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:25
Skullheart
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o Ventus wrote...
Skullheart wrote...
The fighter thing was control damage...
Not my point. Even if it WAS damage control, it would have been much more epic actually seeing it transpire (which may have happend if she was atleast a temp), instead of just receiving it through an obscure letter that most people won't even read.
That's the thing. It was just control damage. They needed to make her look "impressive" with the minimal resources, in other words a text message.
It would be great if she (and every other ME2 squadmate) were squadmates during their missions, with more investigate dialogue. Like Liara in LotSB. They don't neeed to join the squad, but it would be great I we can fight with them at our side during their mission. Bioware failed to have Miranda on Cronos (closure to Cerberus, dialogue about Horizon, her opinion about TIM indoctrinating his most loyal personal first, etc).
#47472
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:28
MisterJB
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Personally, I couldn't care less about squadmates status.
Give me a full Cerberus Arc written by whoever wrote the Genophage Arc and place Miranda in a role similar to Mordin/Wrex/Legion and you'll have my undying gratitude. And all my money too.
Give me a full Cerberus Arc written by whoever wrote the Genophage Arc and place Miranda in a role similar to Mordin/Wrex/Legion and you'll have my undying gratitude. And all my money too.
#47474
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:34
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ME3-squadmates are no fan-favorites, that's not what I meant. The writers decided to add Vega, Javiik and EDI as new characters for their own reasons, then add fan-favorites Liara, Tali, Garrus.Babi_Siha wrote...
Mr Massakka wrote...
I had the impression that those who joined the ME3-squad (EDI,Vega,Javiik) were strictly listed after fan-request. Miranda simply hasn't made it to the top.
The only fan-favorites who weren't official squadmates were Mordin and Legion, but they were essential for their own race conflicts. They technically even were squadmates up until their death.
Weekes said that Vega was a character they created so that new players could feel femiliar with, it had nothin to o with fan request. About Javik, I could be wrong, but I don't recall seing people askin for a prothean squad.
About fan favorites, Miranda is definitely among them. She's certainly more popular than the VS and in ME2 she was te most popular squad member along with Tali, Garrus and Legion (though I could be wrong about that, I'm simply stating this based on the polls I've seen).
Ashley seemlingly has the same size of support as Miranda, now add Kaidan support and you have more than Miranda. Complaints have been very loud about the VS's role in ME2 so they decided to improve on that fan-input.
Miranda-fans are simply not loud enough in these regards. They had nothing to moan about in ME2 and can't keep up with the masses of Liara, Tali and Garrus fans.
"Nothing to care too much for" might have been BioWare's conclusion on this.
#47475
Posté 21 avril 2012 - 10:37
CuseGirl
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But it makes perfect sense to make Cerberus a near primary antagonist and not include Miranda in that conflict?Mr Massakka wrote...
I had the impression that those who joined the ME3-squad (EDI,Vega,Javiik) were strictly listed after fan-request. Miranda simply hasn't made it to the top.
The only fan-favorites who weren't official squadmates were Mordin and Legion, but they were essential for their own race conflicts. They technically even were squadmates up until their death.
