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[Ares91]

So were getting punished because we had nothing to complain about from me2?. Where the VS fans screamed and cried.

[CuseGirl]

I'm sorry, I can't imagine that lack of resources or a writing oversight is the reason Miranda is practically sidelined. They made a CONSCIOUS choice to bring Cerberus up as an enemy. So don't tell me "we just couldn't fit Miranda into ANY of the missions that included Cerberus but didn't include Oriana", even tho they had time to include Tali, Garrus, Mordin, Legion, and Liara in missions that connected to their race or military group....I'm sorry, I don't buy it. This was deliberate...I blame Walters.

[Babi_Siha]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I had the impression that those who joined the ME3-squad (EDI,Vega,Javiik) were strictly listed after fan-request. Miranda simply hasn't made it to the top.
The only fan-favorites who weren't official squadmates were Mordin and Legion, but they were essential for their own race conflicts. They technically even were squadmates up until their death.

Weekes said that Vega was a character they created so that new players could feel femiliar with, it had nothin to o with fan request. About Javik, I could be wrong, but I don't recall seing people askin for a prothean squad.

About fan favorites, Miranda is definitely among them. She's certainly more popular than the VS and in ME2 she was te most popular squad member along with Tali, Garrus and Legion (though I could be wrong about that, I'm simply stating this based on the polls I've seen).

ME3-squadmates are no fan-favorites, that's not what I meant. The writers decided to add Vega, Javiik and EDI as new characters for their own reasons, then add fan-favorites Liara, Tali, Garrus.
Ashley seemlingly has the same size of support as Miranda, now add Kaidan support and you have more than Miranda. Complaints have been very loud about the VS's role in ME2 so they decided to improve on that fan-input. 

Miranda-fans are simply not loud enough in these regards. They had nothing to moan about in ME2 and can't keep up with the masses of Liara, Tali and Garrus fans.
"Nothing to care too much for" might have been BioWare's conclusion on this.

I disaree with you, I think Miranda has a much greater fan base than Ashley. You're right about Kaidan though, BW had in him the opportunity to make him gay and since him and Ashley have pratically the same treatment she had to make the cut.

[CuseGirl]

I also bristle at the idea that James Vega is only character they could come up with to make "casuals" feel comfortable. Is that all casual gamers know of? Muscle bound goons who think its ok to call Shepard "Loco"?

[Stalker]

CuseGirl wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I had the impression that those who joined the ME3-squad (EDI,Vega,Javiik) were strictly listed after fan-request. Miranda simply hasn't made it to the top.
The only fan-favorites who weren't official squadmates were Mordin and Legion, but they were essential for their own race conflicts. They technically even were squadmates up until their death.

But it makes perfect sense to make Cerberus a near primary antagonist and not include Miranda in that conflict?

My wild guess: They decided that EDI fits the role better in order to give more ground for StarChild's reasoning.

When I was on Cronos station I actually had the impression that this mission was in concept designed for Miranda. Evertime you find the logs of Shepard's revival, Miranda's conflict with her past methods would make a perfect remark there.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 avril 2012 - 10:49 .

[Caihn]

Mr Massakka wrote...
Miranda-fans are simply not loud enough in these regards. They had nothing to moan about in ME2 and can't keep up with the masses of Liara, Tali and Garrus fans.
"Nothing to care too much for" might have been BioWare's conclusion on this.

I agree.

There are even some devs who were surprised to see so much support for Miranda, a few months before ME3 release. Unfortunately it was too late ...

Not having Miranda in the squad, her reduced role and her rushed romance are things I will never forgive to Bioware. I even find the ending less disappointing than all this.

[jtav]

Miranda is mentioned an awful lot in the logs, isn't she?

[Caihn]

Ares91 wrote...

So were getting punished because we had nothing to complain about from me2?. Where the VS fans screamed and cried.

I don't think complaints were necessary, but more active support would have been useful.

But with a splited fanbase and a very active group of haters, the character never had a chance.

Modifié par Yannkee, 21 avril 2012 - 11:08 .

[Skullheart]

jtav wrote...

Miranda is mentioned an awful lot in the logs, isn't she?

twice, Miranda taking control of Lazarus and TIM and Leng conversation about Horizon.

[Babi_Siha]

jtav wrote...

Miranda is mentioned an awful lot in the logs, isn't she?

She is. I can't understand though why she didn't appear on the logs, it would be much better if we saw her talking to the Illusive Man instead of some scientist.

[Stalker]

Skullheart wrote...

jtav wrote...

Miranda is mentioned an awful lot in the logs, isn't she?

twice, Miranda taking control of Lazarus and TIM and Leng conversation about Horizon.

I think Shepard's conflict if he is still "himself" is the more interesting part about this. Because that's exactly what Miranda has always been bothered about.
And EDI would only be the replacement for a dead Miranda... it works surprisingly good that way...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 avril 2012 - 11:04 .

[jtav]

I think they were running out of money by then, per some deve statements. Anything to keep the VA bill down was good.

[CuseGirl]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

jtav wrote...

Miranda is mentioned an awful lot in the logs, isn't she?

twice, Miranda taking control of Lazarus and TIM and Leng conversation about Horizon.

I think Shepard's conflict if he is still "himself" is the more interesting part about this. Because that's exactly what Miranda has always been bothered about.
And EDI would only be the replacement for a dead Miranda... it works surprisingly good that way...

That whole sequence with the logs made me confused. I felt like "why is EDI talking about this?"

[Vertigo_1]

It's easier to put in someone on the squad with plot armor (meaning they are alive at that point) than someone who could be dead. That's why you got VS & Liara. They are there and that cuts down on having to create new characters and turn them into squadmates (Vega).

Garrus and (later) Tali got in due large fan backing.

As for Miranda, I would assume that there would be too much overlap between her and Ash to have both on the squad (you saw how confused some were over who was who before release). We got more screen time with her than the other ME2 exclusive squad mates (meaning we see her throughout the game. Instead of just a mission and and an after-mission meet up.

I think it would have been nicer to structure the Cerberus arc like they did with Genophage and Rannoch

[CuseGirl]

Yannkee wrote...
I agree.

There are even some devs who were surprised to see so much support for Miranda, a few months before ME3 release. Unfortunately it was too late ...

Not having Miranda in the squad, her reduced role and her rushed romance are things I will never forgive to Bioware. I even find the ending less disappointing than all this.

The part I just bolded, I can't fathom how that's a possibility. She was ON THE COVER of ME-2! And stats showed she was one of the more popular squadmates, also one of the more survivable squaddies in the SM, AND they designed ME-2's SM to keep her alive. So how can they be like "I can't believe so many people are concerned with what we're writing for Miranda". But you wrote so much for non-human characters? Smh.....I'm sorry, I think there's an actual bias with their writing group, not lack of resources.

Modifié par CuseGirl, 21 avril 2012 - 11:13 .

[CuseGirl]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

It's easier to put in someone on the squad with plot armor (meaning they are alive at that point) than someone who could be dead. That's why you got VS & Liara. They are there and that cuts down on having to create new characters and turn them into squadmates (Vega).

Garrus and (later) Tali got in due large fan backing.

As for Miranda, I would assume that there would be too much overlap between her and Ash to have both on the squad (you saw how confused some were over who was who before release). We got more screen time with her than the other ME2 exclusive squad mates (meaning we see her throughout the game. Instead of just a mission and and an after-mission meet up.

I think it would have been nicer to structure the Cerberus arc like they did with Genophage and Rannoch

Everyone keeps bringing up "fan base" for Garrus and Tali. What is their definitive proof of which characters have more supporters?

Honestly, it's not even about her not being a permanent squadmate. It's about how the Cerberus arc was PURPOSELY given writing steroids without properly scaling Miranda's role, in quanity and quality....

Modifié par CuseGirl, 21 avril 2012 - 11:14 .

[Vertigo_1]

CuseGirl wrote...
Everyone keeps bringing up "fan base" for Garrus and Tali. What is their definitive proof of which characters have more supporters?

Fanfic, Art, Forums... you name it. They check that stuff out.
I imagine the Gameplay Feedback info gave them extra data on that kind of thing (ME2)

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 21 avril 2012 - 11:17 .

[Caihn]

CuseGirl wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
I agree.

There are even some devs who were surprised to see so much support for Miranda, a few months before ME3 release. Unfortunately it was too late ...

Not having Miranda in the squad, her reduced role and her rushed romance are things I will never forgive to Bioware. I even find the ending less disappointing than all this.

The part I just bolded, I can't fathom how that's a possibility. She was ON THE COVER of ME-2! And stats showed she was one of the more popular squadmates, also one of the more survivable squaddies in the SM, AND they designed ME-2's SM to keep her alive. So how can they be like "I can't believe so many people are concerned with what we're writing for Miranda". But you wrote so much for non-human characters? Smh.....I'm sorry, I think there's an actual bias with their writing group, not lack of resources.

I remember a message on twitter of Casey Hudson and a comment during a fans Q&A video of Mike Gamble.

[Stalker]

CuseGirl wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

It's easier to put in someone on the squad with plot armor (meaning they are alive at that point) than someone who could be dead. That's why you got VS & Liara. They are there and that cuts down on having to create new characters and turn them into squadmates (Vega).

Garrus and (later) Tali got in due large fan backing.

As for Miranda, I would assume that there would be too much overlap between her and Ash to have both on the squad (you saw how confused some were over who was who before release). We got more screen time with her than the other ME2 exclusive squad mates (meaning we see her throughout the game. Instead of just a mission and and an after-mission meet up.

I think it would have been nicer to structure the Cerberus arc like they did with Genophage and Rannoch

Everyone keeps bringing up "fan base" for Garrus and Tali. What is their definitive proof of which characters have more supporters?

Example polls: 
Garrus and Mordin are at the top of "favorite character" on place #1 and #2, Liara and Tali are romances #1 and #2...  always.

[CuseGirl]

I guess I'm buggin' out cuz this is just another aspect of my life where I'm on the fringe lollll....it's like I'm genetically pre-disposed to like that which less like......I also didn't play ME-1, so Garrus, Tali and Liara mean nothing to me.....

That's still no excuse to turn Cerberus into an organization that is capable of running an indoctrination and liquification facility on the same colony planet where the Collectors abducted thousands of humans. And while running THAT facility, they can run an army big enough to attack the Citadel. And while we're giving Cerberus steroids, their leader is currently indoctrinated and we're not really gonna talk about how one of his trusted agents resigned her post......

Modifié par CuseGirl, 21 avril 2012 - 11:22 .

[Vertigo_1]

Her romance is way more complete than Jack, Thane...and Jacob (and Kelly) that's why you see these fangroups in more of an uproar over them.

CuseGirl wrote...
...they designed ME-2's SM to keep her alive...

You need to have a biotic alive to do the biotic bubble section of the SM.  You can actually set it up so that Miranda is the only one alive at that point who can do that job.  So she was the fallback, that's why she lives no matter what up till the last boss.

[Skullheart]

CuseGirl wrote...

I guess I'm buggin' out cuz this is just another aspect of my life where I'm on the fringe lollll....it's like I'm genetically pre-disposed to like that which less like......I also didn't play ME-1, so Garrus, Tali and Liara mean nothing to me.....

That's still no excuse to turn Cerberus into an organization that is capable of running an indoctrination and liquification facility on the same colony planet where the Collectors abducted thousands of humans. And while running THAT facility, they can run an army big enough to attack the Citadel. And while we're giving Cerberus steroids, their leader is currently indoctrinated and we're not really gonna talk about how one of his trusted agents resigned her post......

Writer neural decay can justify all that...

[Stalker]

About Cerberus suddenly being big: It's reasonable. Just imagine what todays' secret agencies could do if going full military offensive. They also found Reaper-tech (important choice here ) and had a huge boost of resources with it.
However, I agree that it was completely overdone to take out the Citadel.

[CuseGirl]

Yannkee wrote...

CuseGirl wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
I agree.

There are even some devs who were surprised to see so much support for Miranda, a few months before ME3 release. Unfortunately it was too late ...

Not having Miranda in the squad, her reduced role and her rushed romance are things I will never forgive to Bioware. I even find the ending less disappointing than all this.

The part I just bolded, I can't fathom how that's a possibility. She was ON THE COVER of ME-2! And stats showed she was one of the more popular squadmates, also one of the more survivable squaddies in the SM, AND they designed ME-2's SM to keep her alive. So how can they be like "I can't believe so many people are concerned with what we're writing for Miranda". But you wrote so much for non-human characters? Smh.....I'm sorry, I think there's an actual bias with their writing group, not lack of resources.

I remember a message on twitter of Casey Hudson and a comment during a fans Q&A video of Mike Gamble.

I do remember Mike Gamble purposely ignoring the Miranda questions for like 10 minutes on I think Ustream...."uh, there's a lot of Miranda questions" smh.....

[Vertigo_1]

CuseGirl wrote...
I do remember Mike Gamble purposely ignoring the Miranda questions for like 10 minutes on I think Ustream...."uh, there's a lot of Miranda questions" smh.....

I remember that...it was just one person spamming the feed...