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[CuseGirl]

Mr Massakka wrote...

About Cerberus suddenly being big: It's reasonable. Just imagine what todays' secret agencies could do if going full military offensive. They also found Reaper-tech (important choice here ) and had a huge boost of resources with it.
However, I agree that it was completely overdone to take out the Citadel.

I hear you....I know I'm overreacting but I'm trying to play the game for the 3rd time and I just can't get myself much past Mars without thinking "this story is somehow just wrong...."

I dont even understand the point of the Udina coup.....I mean, what was that for, other than to have another mission where Kai Leng's plot armor shows.....

[Stalker]

CuseGirl wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

About Cerberus suddenly being big: It's reasonable. Just imagine what todays' secret agencies could do if going full military offensive. They also found Reaper-tech (important choice here ) and had a huge boost of resources with it.
However, I agree that it was completely overdone to take out the Citadel.

I hear you....I know I'm overreacting but I'm trying to play the game for the 3rd time and I just can't get myself much past Mars without thinking "this story is somehow just wrong...."

I dont even understand the point of the Udina coup.....I mean, what was that for, other than to have another mission where Kai Leng's plot armor shows.....

I especially thought "The Citadel with all it's defenses got overwhelmed?! Impossible! ... oh wait, this happened before..."
It was nothing surprising or spectacular. The same idea taken twice. I feel so reminded of Halo's endings right now...

[MisterJB]

Cerberus did not have the military capability to take out the Citadel. If you invite Dr.Michel aboard the Normandy, she says her brother, who lives on the Wards, didn't even know what was happening.
The plan was to bring the Council into Cerberus custody, a bloodless coup. When that failed, they tried to take control of the Presidium where C-Sec HQ is. If you control the Presidium, you control the Citadel. As long as no Councilor escapes, of course. 
Cerberus didn't have to fight their way through the Council Fleet, for instance.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 avril 2012 - 11:38 .

[Skullheart]

What failed was the lack of Udina motivation to do the coup. Shepard was getting results, and for first time in the trilogy he wasn't being an idiot, he was doing what was better for humanity, until the coup.

[MisterJB]

Udina was an excellent representative of humanity qand the Coup was good for humanity, one way or the other.
Had it suceeded, it would have placed the entire Citadel and Council Fleet obeying the orders of humans.
It failed, but, despite the loss of our Councilor, it still served to awake the Citadel from their torpor. After seeing that the Citadel is not impregnable, the Council was much more interested in Project Crucible.

[Stalker]

MisterJB wrote...

Cerberus did not have the military capability to take out the Citadel. If you invite Dr.Michel aboard the Normandy, she says her brother, who lives on the Wards, didn't even know what was happening.
The plan was to bring the Council into Cerberus custody, a bloodless coup. When that failed, they tried to take control of the Presidium where C-Sec HQ is. If you control the Presidium, you control the Citadel. As long as no Councilor escapes, of course. 
Cerberus didn't have to fight their way through the Council Fleet, for instance.

Well, I kinda misunderstood that then. Too bad the game has more epic action scenes than conversatons where you could find out such things. It was just "The Citadel is under attack" "It's Cerberus" "Udina is with them" and "They want the Council". 

Or maybe I completely missed that conversation...

[CuseGirl]

MisterJB wrote...

Cerberus did not have the military capability to take out the Citadel. If you invite Dr.Michel aboard the Normandy, she says her brother, who lives on the Wards, didn't even know what was happening.
The plan was to bring the Council into Cerberus custody, a bloodless coup. When that failed, they tried to take control of the Presidium where C-Sec HQ is. If you control the Presidium, you control the Citadel. As long as no Councilor escapes, of course. 
Cerberus didn't have to fight their way through the Council Fleet, for instance.

Got it.....I still think there was a deliberate choice to make Miranda's part of the story poor in quality....there, I said it, badassfully with an accusatory tone ::you know face::

[MisterJB]

I still wish Miranda had allowed Kai Leng to attack the Presidium while, at the same time, helped Shepard stop him before he could kill the Council.
Just to pull the Citadel into the War.

[Skullheart]

I wish Mirnda could still be the good operative she was during ME2.

[MisterJB]

If by that you mean her skills, I'd actually say ME3 made it very clear just how amazing she is. Infiltrating Sanctuary while it was being attacked by Reapers, not only surviving a fight with Leng but trick him into leading Shepard to Harper's doorstep, all of the videologs pertaining how Miranda really did the impossible by bringing Shepard back.
My complaint is that she is a much "safer" character than before. Everything controversial about her is absentee.

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 avril 2012 - 12:35 .

[Ares91]

Yannkee wrote...

Not having Miranda in the squad, her reduced role and her rushed romance are things I will never forgive to Bioware. I even find the ending less disappointing than all this.

This is pretty much how I feel right now.

[Td1984]

Udina's reasoning for the coup was- iirc- that if he took out or arrested the Council, he'd be in total control and could order all the Citadel fleets to Earth to fight the Reapers. Problem was, they weren't ready yet (recall how low our EMS was at that point) to launch the counter-attack and what ships would've made it there would've been quickly annihilated and the war lost. Udina was just desperate to save Earth and Cerberus offered him help.

Modifié par Td1984, 22 avril 2012 - 01:09 .

[Ares91]

So I would assume some people have seen this before but I thought what the hell.
Its a short vid that stars Yvonne and well I left me slightly turned on and yet distrubed at the same time lol

www.youtube.com/watch

[Td1984]

Oh yeah. I saw that as soon as College Humor posted it. I wasn't sure what to think of it.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

There's no doubt in my mind that Yvonne has a Gorgeous Singing Voice. She only sounded like that because it was meant to be Humorous. I want to hear her sing a dramatic and serious sort of song. I Believe she can do it:wub:.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 avril 2012 - 03:04 .

[Stalker]

That was... disturbing...

[kookie28]

I thought she was lip-synching to be honest.

[JohnTSCC]

intriguing but highly disturbing...

[MisterJB]

That's because it's not Yvonne who is singing.
Also, weeeeeird.

[MisterJB]

I find your avatar to be weirdly appropriate, I1 Trust.

[Dr. Doctor]

MisterJB wrote...

If by that you mean her skills, I'd actually say ME3 made it very clear just how amazing she is. Infiltrating Sanctuary while it was being attacked by Reapers, not only surviving a fight with Leng but trick him into leading Shepard to Harper's doorstep, all of the videologs pertaining how Miranda really did the impossible by bringing Shepard back.
My complaint is that she is a much "safer" character than before. Everything controversial about her is absentee.

Everything controversial about Cerberus in general is absent in ME3 which is a shame. The idea that they wanted to create a future for humanity that wasn't dictated to us by groups like the Council was appealing, and having characters like Miranda who viewed Cerberus' agenda as putting humanity first out of the desire for a better future for our species rather than xenophobia showed that the organization might not be that bad.

What would have been interesting is if they expanded upon TIM's plan to control the Reapers. The mission on Gellix references cells that were producing a technology of indeterminate use, Overlord has Cerberus looking into controlling the Geth by merging our minds with a VI program. What if Overlord wasn't intended to control the Geth, but instead was a proof-of-concept experiment for something bigger?

In this case the coup wasn't intended to kill the Council or take over the station, it was intended to create a distraction so a more advanced version on the Overlord device could be hidden on the Citadel for later use. When Shepard encounters TIM on the Citadel he states that the device originally could take over a single Reaper, but with the Crucible's ability to tap into the relay network and Henry Lawson's discovery of the Reaper control signal an individual hooked into the machine would be able to command the entire Reaper fleet at once. Doing so would end the war, but it would also give humanity access to the most advanced technology that the galaxy has ever seen we could advance ourselves beyond our wildest dreams...but at what cost?

EDIT: This is what I get for playing Deus Ex non-stop for a week.

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 22 avril 2012 - 05:15 .

[CuseGirl]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
Everything controversial about Cerberus in general is absent in ME3 which is a shame. The idea that they wanted to create a future for humanity that wasn't dictated to us by groups like the Council was appealing, and having characters like Miranda who viewed Cerberus' agenda as putting humanity first out of the desire for a better future for our species rather than xenophobia showed that the organization might not be that bad.

What would have been interesting is if they expanded upon TIM's plan to control the Reapers.

Expanding on TiM's plan to control the Reapers means they would have had to convince the player that it was plausible in anyway. All the conversations you have with TiM, he's arrogant enough to the point where you just KNOW in the end, this whole "we can control the Reaper" mantra will blow up in his face.

What they should have done is juxtaposed TiM's Cerberus with the beginnings of what Miranda had in mind...of course, that means they would have had to, you kno, acknowledge that she had dialogue in ME-2, and take the time to, you kno, write that into the narrative of ME-3 <_<

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Personally, I couldn't care less about squadmates status.
Give me a full Cerberus Arc written by whoever wrote the Genophage Arc and place Miranda in a role similar to Mordin/Wrex/Legion and you'll have my undying gratitude. And all my money too.

Yep.

I'm still scratching my head over this. Miranda had such an obvious potential for a Cerberus story arc, connecting neatly to the main plot. And it was all squandered. Instead we get loyalty mission 2.0 and a plot contribution that feels like an afterthought.

@CuseGirl:
Assigning resources to a character is a form of being deliberate. My impression is that we have the framework of a story arc that coud've been good, had a different writer been assigned to her, had she had more presence on "her" mission, had there been one more scene where she could've shown off, were the scene with her father extended etc. etc.. Then add her to Cronos Station and everything would have been fine.

I blame Walters and Hudson. Walters didn't want anyone with the potential to steal the spotlight from Liara. Hudson didn't want controversial characters. Both are heavyweights in the decision making process about resource allocation and mission design, and here we have the result.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 avril 2012 - 06:19 .

[Ieldra]

CuseGirl wrote...
I guess I'm buggin' out cuz this is just another aspect of my life where I'm on the fringe lollll....it's like I'm genetically pre-disposed to like that which less like......I also didn't play ME-1, so Garrus, Tali and Liara mean nothing to me.....

That's still no excuse to turn Cerberus into an organization that is capable of running an indoctrination and liquification facility on the same colony planet where the Collectors abducted thousands of humans. And while running THAT facility, they can run an army big enough to attack the Citadel. And while we're giving Cerberus steroids, their leader is currently indoctrinated and we're not really gonna talk about how one of his trusted agents resigned her post......

It's the inconsistency that bothers me. The way Cerberus developed is extreme, but I can live with it, since several people comment about how they changed, about how they had some sympathy for them when they did something against the Collectors, formerly dedicated Cerberus personnel is leaving etc... I think within the constraints of "Cerberus is a primary antagonist", they made the point well that what Cerberus had been might not have been so bad.

But that Miranda never brings it up while everyone else does, that's not just inexcusable - it's totally incomprehensible. The character whose Cerberus affiliation was closest has least to say about the newest developments? It beggars comprehension.

As for being on the fringe....yeah, I know that feeling very well. Almost all of my favorite characters in any form of visual entertainment have either been sidelined or character-mutilated or didn't survive the show. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 avril 2012 - 06:50 .