82210 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

We talked. It was just that we assumed Miranda would be a part of the Cerberus plot the way Tali was with the geth and Mordin was for the genophage. We tended to talk about her characterization going forward. My worst fears were pretty well realized, and I don't think even those who wanted a softer Miranda are happy with what we got. I think they understood that she had to be important to the Cerberus plot, and she is on paper. Her role *is* fantastic on paper. Three conversations before her mission and she's the one who allows you to proceed to the endgame? And we finally get to deal with Henry once and for all? We should have been squeeing. But the execution is so terrible. I think where they really messed up was in trying to "tame" her. We like her precisely because she's not a very nice person, but she is good. She had ideals about how the galaxy should be and we liked that. But because those ideas were shared by TIM, they had to be scrubbed from her character. She becomes generic redeemed femme fatale #452. And there's all this nasty subtext with "things I could never have" and dying because her boyfriend breaks up with her. Grr.

[Stalker]

That's actually a huge point which has been mentioned: We should constantly talk about what we want (#findmiranda is a great example to do so) and especially finish the fanbook to perfection so BioWare knows what we are up to.

That's the only mistake we made pre-ME3: We were quiet.

[Skullheart]

btw, how would be the game if the cerberus arc was handled this way:

- The first priority mission after the geth arc is Sanctuary. The Reapers don't attack the planet, and we can see what Cerberus do to all the refugees. Shepard shut down the place, but Henry escapes from there after purging all the data. There is no information to find TIM or crucial information about controlling the reapers. Miranda can board the Normandy as a NPC or squadmember.

- After Sanctuary, there's 2 missions regarding Cerberus (you have to do at least one of them). Grissom Academy or Gellix. If one of them isn't done then Jack is phantom or jacob is a biotic centurion on Cronos.

- After completing one of those missions we got wordt about the relic on Thessia. Just that there are two teams of the Normandy on the planet. One team is the usual (Shepard, Liara and extra squaddie). The other team is leaded by Miranda or EDI. The second team distracts reaper forces from the temple, whileShepard search the relics. The fight with Leng go as usual,just that when he is leaving the temple he finds the second team. There is a fight betwen them (Leng supported by phantoms),in this fight Leng wins, but Miranda/EDI put a tracer on him.

- After Thessia come Cronos, with the difference that the Alliance isn't the only force attacking the station, Thereis a sovereign class ship attacking the base too. The base is attacked by two teams (Shepard, EDI, extra squaddie) and the rest leaded by Miranda (if miranda is dead then on of the other squadmembers will die). At the time the teams reunites they found a lab with Henry Lawson inside, he tell us he has done hispart by controlling the reapers.Hedies there. Then we head to TIM's officejust like in the main game. At the end, we have to activate the selfdestruction device of the base to take out the reaper.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

FYI, people: Weekes said it's all but impossible - technically - to add a general-use squadmate through DLC (I wonder how they made Kasumi for ME2, though. Perhaps it's just that ME3 has so many more places where squadmates have spoken lines)

That's a load of crap, precisely for the underlined.
ME2 had 4 hub worlds (Citadel, Omega, Tuchanka, Ilium), 12 recruitment missions, 12 loyalty missions 2 forced progression missions, Reaper IFF and Suicide Mission- 28 missions (squadmates don't talk for DLC missions or side quests)
ME3 has one hub world (Citadel) , 14 main missions, maybe 9 secondary missions (like the bomb on Tuchanka or Grissom) so around 23 missions. (sidequests are overheard, click to scan, scan to win for the most part).

Compare then, squadmate conversation options in ME2 vs one or two of those in ME3 and click to talk for the remainder.

Result: technical requirements being too high is a poor excuse for not giving someone the Kasumi treatment in ME3. Yeah having the squad disperse around the Citadel was a nice touch but they only have one convo or two tops then it's back to click to talk.

It may be impossible to add a DLC squadmate. But technical limitations aren't the problem. It's people.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 08 mai 2012 - 03:40 .

[jtav]

I think the limiting factor is banter. ME2 squad members don't really talk to each other. ME3 squad members do. You get different banter in the shuttle if you bring Javik and EDI versus Garrus and Liara. Adding one team member would be calling all the others back.

[CrutchCricket]

I didn't notice that promised banter at all. Certainly not on the shuttle or during missions. On the Normandy maybe. But even that was a few lines back and forth between two people. The most extensive one was Garrus and Vega.

Even if more banter exists and I just missed it it's rarely more than two people. You'd only need to bring one person back.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 08 mai 2012 - 03:50 .

[Babi_Siha]

jtav wrote...

We talked. It was just that we assumed Miranda would be a part of the Cerberus plot the way Tali was with the geth and Mordin was for the genophage. We tended to talk about her characterization going forward. My worst fears were pretty well realized, and I don't think even those who wanted a softer Miranda are happy with what we got. I think they understood that she had to be important to the Cerberus plot, and she is on paper. Her role *is* fantastic on paper. Three conversations before her mission and she's the one who allows you to proceed to the endgame? And we finally get to deal with Henry once and for all? We should have been squeeing. But the execution is so terrible. I think where they really messed up was in trying to "tame" her. We like her precisely because she's not a very nice person, but she is good. She had ideals about how the galaxy should be and we liked that. But because those ideas were shared by TIM, they had to be scrubbed from her character. She becomes generic redeemed femme fatale #452. And there's all this nasty subtext with "things I could never have" and dying because her boyfriend breaks up with her. Grr.

I agree 100% with you. BW didn't want to have an important person in the universe being morally ambiguous
so it was decided the best way to handle this was to lobotomize Miranda and turn her into a girly girl. Miranda should've never been tamed like you said, she should've remained the same fierce character we all liked from the previous game. And the one thing they decided to keep about the character? The gratuitous ass shots.

And even if she was never meant to be a squad, there was so much use for her. She could be as important as Legion and Mordin. On paper her role does look good, but when you're playing it just feels like a huge insult, if the devs cared about the character they could've done something a lot better.

[Td1984]

Ieldra2 wrote...

FYI, people: Weekes said it's all but impossible - technically - to add a general-use squadmate through DLC (I wonder how they made Kasumi for ME2, though. Perhaps it's just that ME3 has so many more places where squadmates have spoken lines). So our campaigning should better aim at having her on an extra mission. Or on one existing mission (*cough* Cronos Station *cough*).

Personally, I like the idea of her taking EDI's place on Cronos Station, even though EDI's one of my favorite squadmates in the trilogy. Though I'd still cling to the *very* unlikely idea of the push to the beam in London being re-worked so that you can choose any 2 surviving squadmates from the entire series to go along with you, though not necessarily up to the Citadel itself (otherwise all 3 of you would be screwed).

[akenn312]

I think the way Bioware just dumped out on Miranda's character motivation and romance with Shepard was a huge letdown. Actually in ME2 I totally started to see how Miranda could be the best match for Shepard, unlike Ash who was way too rigid with her hatred for Cerberus or even Liara who had lost herself with all the Shadow Broker stuff. To me Miranda was Shepard's Yin to his Yang, she represented the people Shepard had to ally with to make this work, and as she showed him you don't have to always be a goody goody to accomplish a goal. He was the blunt instrument she was the scapel. Shepard showed her she was more than perfection and being a goody-two shoes was not always a bad thing. Plus Miranda was one of the deeper characters in the game. She was illusive and and an outright witch, loyal to Cerberus until she eventually saw the true organization and showed she had potential for good. She had just been misguided thinking she was doing the right thing. But still Miranda had a past that made her character very real. Flawed even with all her perfections.

Move to ME3 she is neutered like crazy and that makes no sense. This is the woman that was second in command of a ruthless radical organization who would do anything to accomplish a goal and be successful, but a little Alliance security keeps her from breaking Shepard out or going to see him? Actually considering everyone else at least she considered it. Ash would have let him rot and Liara was just "Too busy" to even be bothered. Then add insult to Miranda's character she will totally fall apart if Shepard breaks it off with her. Then all she does is hide from Cerberus agents for the majority of the game.

Why in the heck would sexy badass Miranda ever hide away from a Cerberus agent? She would slam those guys all over the Galaxy.

Then the biggest thing is the Romance scene which had great potential for Miranda to show some remorse for her previous actions and then join the crew again and be a part of Shepard's life and get some real redemption but no we get a quick implied love scene then she is gone again. Also no final love scene? Why is Bioware forcing Ash and Liara or Cortez on Shepard? You are telling me you can't substitute Miranda in there at all? Her motivations are just as good as any of theirs.

Then Kai Leng kicks the crap out of her and even in that scene she looked hardly rendered and just not the same Miranda from ME2. Then if she survives she's off to stay in your war assets as a number of 25 points.

One of the worst character assassinations in the game. I thought Yvonne Strahovski played her beautifully in ME2 it's kind of an injustice to see her character dumped like that. Miranda was one of the best characters.

It's a shame Miranda had to be turned from this…Strong Confident Femme Fatale badass Biotic



To this...Lovesick Girl with Bunny teeth and a great butt, who is only worried about her siter and has a father complex
Awww too bad she's dead.


Sad, Bioware sad...All this waste so Ash and Liara can be the main Romances again

Modifié par akenn312, 08 mai 2012 - 05:08 .

[iHorizons]

@akenn312

I agree Miranda got screwed over big time but you are silly if you think Ash was a "main romance" she barely has any lines in the game

[akenn312]

iHorizons wrote...

@akenn312

I agree Miranda got screwed over big time but you are silly if you think Ash was a "main romance" she barely has any lines in the game

Sorry but you are silly too to think that the romances between Liara and Ashley were not considered the main romances. Compare Liara and Ash's romance and story lines to Miranda's. Ash gets a pretty good final goodbye scene and it's almost a long as Liara's. Liara has the longest love scence and final goodbye.

I see it as Liara is considered to be  #1 Romance. Ashley/Kaiden is considered 1.5. Tali/Garrus probalby 2, Anyone from ME 2 is considered way behind them. Even the official hint book says Mirandas Romance is unfulfilling and they say you might want to romance someone else. Also Ashley is the #1 character they introduce in the hint book. If she is not considered important why all the hospital scences and tension between her and Shepard?

If Ashley is not a main character or romance why the makeover and why does she get a deep final love scence and final goodbye.

Not trying to argue with you but you have to face the facts, Bioware pushed people through auto doalog and cutting Miranda's story to want palyers to romance Ash or Liara over Miranda. Why esle would they cut out Miranda as a squadmate?

Modifié par akenn312, 08 mai 2012 - 05:26 .

[Mr Plow]

Miranda being second in command....just find it strange she could be so high up in the organisation but be oblivious of Cereberus' more repugnant activities

Would have preferred her not to say that line - just that she was a well respected operative

[MisterJB]

There is no indication of her being oblivious of anything. She simply believed TIM was a far better person than he really was.

[Vertigo_1]

For those that missed it:

twitter.com/#!/PatrickWeekes/status/199909236610838528
"To all who contributed to ME Relationship Book, thank you. We are listening. (ME3 Edmonton writers) pic.twitter.com/TsJjSmkw"



inb4 Skullheart

--------------------------------------
And this got retweeted by @MassEffect:

twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/199918034360606720
"RT @TeeShepz: @masseffectMore Miranda & Jack Is needed! The Normandy can take 2 more #masseffect3 pic.twitter.com/bgXCEnT5"

Reminds me of how empty the Normandy felt in ME3.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 08 mai 2012 - 05:51 .

[Stalker]

Thanks for the heads-up! Awesome news!

[flemm]

akenn312 wrote...
Not trying to argue with you but you have to face the facts, Bioware pushed people through auto doalog and cutting Miranda's story to want palyers to romance Ash or Liara over Miranda. Why esle would they cut out Miranda as a squadmate?

LoL, well, I think those facts have been faced

See the last, oh... 1,000 pages or so of complaining about it.

But it's not some personal vendetta against Miranda. They didn't want her to be the focus of this game as she was of the last game. I don't like it, but that's life.

So, now we can move on to pushing for improved/additional content, which I think we have a reasonable chance of getting.

Modifié par flemm, 08 mai 2012 - 05:56 .

[hot_heart]

Mr Plow wrote...

Miranda being second in command....just find it strange she could be so high up in the organisation but be oblivious of Cereberus' more repugnant activities

Would have preferred her not to say that line - just that she was a well respected operative

I always viewed that line as a sort of shorthand between them. As in, they both know she wasn't technically second-in-command but that's how the Alliance might view her (given the context of the sentence). Although, 'Cerberus cell leader' might have been simpler and plays into connotations about terrorism and Cerberus' black-and-white representation. She did seem to know a lot more about more than her particular cell though...

Modifié par hot_heart, 08 mai 2012 - 05:55 .

[yesikareyes]

@Vertigo_1

Nice job, Vertigo!

[akenn312]

flemm wrote...

akenn312 wrote...
Not trying to argue with you but you have to face the facts, Bioware pushed people through auto doalog and cutting Miranda's story to want palyers to romance Ash or Liara over Miranda. Why esle would they cut out Miranda as a squadmate?

LoL, well, I think those facts have been faced

See the last, oh... 1,000 pages or so of complaining about it.

But it's not some personal vendetta against Miranda. They didn't want her to be the focus of this game as she was of the last game. I don't like it, but that's life.

So, now we can move on to pushing for improved/additional content, which I think we have a reasonable chance of getting.

I hope we can get more Miri content, I have been holding this in for a while now, not sure why I posted today. Maybe it was all those Chuck episodes I watched last night.

[yesikareyes]

@akenn312

Join our group, One of the community managers joined it and he said he wanted to join in the discussions.

[akenn312]

yesikareyes wrote...

@akenn312

Join our group, One of the community managers joined it and he said he wanted to join in the discussions.

Just joined thanks for the invite, glad to get to talk about Ms. Lawson with her other fans

[flemm]

akenn312 wrote...

I hope we can get more Miri content, I have been holding this in for a while now, not sure why I posted today. Maybe it was all those Chuck episodes I watched last night.

It's cool. I'm not criticizing your post, believe me, a lot of us have been there.

Here's a thought: why not turn your irritation into a letter for the fanbook?

You can send it here: mirandafanbook@gmail.com 

Thereby contributing to... encouraging Bioware to proceed with improved content for Miranda and others.

Modifié par flemm, 08 mai 2012 - 06:10 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

^ Oh COME ON! Why did you post a picture of Miri dying?!

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 08 mai 2012 - 06:10 .

[jtav]

It's just a picture. I don't suppose anyone has one of Shep cradling her?

[enayasoul]

I found a very fascinating fan fiction last night.  I've been reading it almost non-stop. It has an interesting take on Miranda and Shepard's relationship in ME2. 

www.fanfiction.net/s/7496397/1/Mass_Effect_Sacrifice