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[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Indoctrination Theory, flemm. Dial all our debates about the CB up to eleven and you'll get the idea.

Oh, that

Modifié par flemm, 17 mai 2012 - 09:28 .

[Ieldra]

kookie28 wrote...
CB = Collector Base.

I'm assuming.

I think I'll just stick with saying Harbinger did 9/11 in any IT threads I see from now on. It gets about the same intellectual response as a thought out post.

Sorry to leave you with the inmates, kookie, but it's midnight out here and I'm leaving home for two days tomorrow. And yes, CB is Collector base. Debates were heated about that as well, but it didn't have the potential to ruin the game for those who don't like one option, as opposed to IT.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

What a beautiful antidone against depression...

[jtav]

And the CB argument fizzled out once we took a look and the script and decided we didn't want this Miranda regardless of our opinion on her P/R status. I know my opinion was less about her actual lines than paranoia that we'd get what we got.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
And the CB argument fizzled out once we took a look and the script and decided we didn't want this Miranda regardless of our opinion on her P/R status. I know my opinion was less about her actual lines than paranoia that we'd get what we got.

I recall the time when we all hoped we would be proven idiots by ME3. Now, not only have we been proven not to be idiots, but we were actually too optimistic in our pessimism. Who would ever have thought that Miranda/Cerberus would not feature prominently in ME3? That her character would be mutilated this badly?

The only good thing about it is that it brought Miranda fans together.  

[Td1984]

yesikareyes wrote...

CB?

Ah, the Indoctrination Theory. I think that's cool if that were true but at the same time I'm part of the percentage who is content with the ending now. I mean it could have been better, but overall I'm fine with it. My only gripe was I felt that it was a cliffhanger for a sequel than a conclusive end to a trilogy. So it seems there's a high possibility the ExtCut will make me happy with more definitive scenes. It'll be even higher if we #FindMiranda.

CB= Collector Base

People in this thread used to debate whether or not Miranda's being in favor of destroying the Base was in-character. I generally stayed out of it as I was not exactly sure where I stood on that opinion. Personally, I have 4 Sheps (2 of each gender) and 2 kept it and 2 destroyed it (1 of each gender for each decision). The 2 that destroyed it were my Spacers who are both as loyal to the Alliance as Ashley is (in fact my male Spacer Shep is my Ashleymancer).

The two who kept it are my male headcanon Earthborn Shep Thomas, who has known Miranda since he was 12 and has had a major crush on her since (and is therefore what you'd call "whipped"), and my Colonist Shep Sarah, who is also attracted to her. Both kept it thinking that's what she'd do (though both were also varying degrees of being pro-Cerberus in ME2). Oops. 

[Ieldra]

@yesika, td:
Actually, the argument was about Miranda's pragmatism. Namely, my side argued that she *may* support destroying the CB for pragmatic reasons but never for sentimental ones, and this is the reason we said her line "this feels like a betrayal" , which you get in the exchange with TIM if you choose the Paragon option in the first conversation node, was out of character.

I still think so, but it has all been rendered moot.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What a beautiful antidone against depression...

Ha, yeah, I was thinking that, too

[hot_heart]

Was playing the Haestrom mission today and during the Colossus bit, Miranda was acting like a total badass. I know it wasn't scripted or anything but as I ran for the sniper perch, she was finishing off Geth rather expertly, leaving me a clean path (which is really handy because the first bit of that section has some annoying graphics card-related lag for me).

Then, when I was clearing out the enemies at the top, she didn't actually follow me but fought down in the middle, aggroing the Colossus at the same time.

p.s. sometimes I forget how much I love ME2. Kinda wish I could be playing it for the first time again, but I'd left a long enough gap that the 'smaller' moments feel a bit fresh.

Modifié par hot_heart, 17 mai 2012 - 10:18 .

[yesikareyes]

@Ieldra

Ah, well... then I agree with your opinion on it.

[Babi_Siha]

I don't think her line that keeping the base felt like a betrayal was out of character. In a way, I actually think it was character development. She was always this person so focused on her work and the ultimate cerberus loyalist and little by little we can see she starts seing things a bit different. If I'm not wrong she told Shepard that what happened to Jack was wrong and this doesn't seem like somethinng she would say in the beginning of the game.

I think spending time with Shepard made her see not everything was about human evolution. She was still a pragmatic person, but it feels like she became more human. That's probably just me, but I liked that Miranda felt like destroying the base was a betrayal.

[shepskisaac]

Vote Miranda: social.bioware.com/poll.php

[jtav]

The problem is that the way it's phrased makes it sound like she would have problems with anyone studying the base at all. And that we're missing any kind of transition that would explain the development. And that apparently they were incapable of shifting her to more Paragon without also stripping her of a large part of what made her unique. If I wanted tame, I could get it elsewhere.

[Babi_Siha]

I don't see it as her being tamed; tamed Miranda we got in ME3. I do think is that she was blind to the Cerberus cause and as she spent time with Shepard she realized Cerberus wasn't exactly humanity's sword. And on the CB, in my headcanon, is the moment she finally saw the Illusive Man for what he really was, not a humanitarian, but a greedy, ruthless man.

[flemm]

Babi_Siha wrote...
 That's probably just me, but I liked that Miranda felt like destroying the base was a betrayal.

I've never really had a problem with the line per se, though I understand the issue some people have with it.

There's really no reason why it should have produced what we have in ME3, where so many important character traits are ignored. After all, everybody basically agrees that Miranda should oppose ME3 Cerberus.

It's the gross over-simplication of the character that I really have a problem with, not the idea that her moral outlook might evolve or that her views on Cerberus might change. There is potentially good character growth to be had there. ME3 just doesn't do a good job *at all* in exploiting that.  

Basically, we often say that Miranda is pragmatic/ruthless to a point, but has an idea of where the line should be drawn. She is *really* idealistic, not faux-idealistic (like TIM). So, things like the CB and the control chip are useful for exploring those boundaries. Sanctuary is also good, conceptually. What's disappointing is the writing and implementation.

Modifié par flemm, 17 mai 2012 - 10:54 .

[drwells123]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

Indoctrination Theory, flemm. Dial all our debates about the CB up to eleven and you'll get the idea.

Oh, that

Beautiful. Is that from her LM  (and with a mod so she can carry that monster)?

At first glance I thought the lettering on the scope said "Hard Look". How true.

[Td1984]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@yesika, td:
Actually, the argument was about Miranda's pragmatism. Namely, my side argued that she *may* support destroying the CB for pragmatic reasons but never for sentimental ones, and this is the reason we said her line "this feels like a betrayal" , which you get in the exchange with TIM if you choose the Paragon option in the first conversation node, was out of character.

I still think so, but it has all been rendered moot.

I had thought it was more to do with it being in-character. I guess that's what happens when I joined late (since I didn't get a chance to play ME2 until after it came out on the PS3).

[Babi_Siha]

flemm wrote...

Basically, we often say that Miranda is pragmatic/ruthless to a point, but has an idea of where the line should be drawn. She is *really* idealistic, not faux-idealistic (like TIM). So, things like the CB and the control chip are useful for exploring those boundaries. Sanctuary is also good, conceptually. What's disappointing is the writing and implementation.

I agree with you there. Miranda had so much potential for ME3, too bad It feels like the writers (read Walters) decided that would be easier to write a less complex character. Jtav should really write that essay about smart women.

[jtav]

There's excellent character growth to be had there. What I'd have done is have Miranda leave Cerberus at the start of ME3, and protesting a bit too loudly that she was never anything like that. She's with Shep throughout Sanctuary and becomes more and more outraged. Henry paraphrases some of her earlier arguments and father and daughter have an ideological battle. Miranda is finally forced to admit her own moral failings. Control chip conversation occurs post-mission.

And then she comes with you to Cronos to kick Cerberus tail and take over. Dialogue choices influence whether Miranda disbands them, becomes TIM 2.0, or something in between.

[drwells123]

Visii wrote...

Aliqaiser wrote...

After going through the tribute book, I must say.....it felt quite unorganized, what flemm is working on, is very well organized, with names being mentioned with each Fan-Art uniquely, moreover with a Eye pleasing layout as well.

We did our best. If we organized the pictures by character, a few characters' sections would have dominated the PDF and we didn' want that. If you have any specific examples where things could have been done better, we'll certainly take it into consideration.

It's also the first draft, so we're going to edit it again and fix things before printing it out and sending it to BioWare.

I've been looking through it, the amount and quality of art in there is amazing. It would fantastic if the credits section said who did what, so you could go look them up on DA, since not all of the art is signed. Either way, a huge thank you for putting this together.

[hot_heart]

drwells123 wrote...
Beautiful. Is that from her LM  (and with a mod so she can carry that monster)?

At first glance I thought the lettering on the scope said "Hard Look". How true.

I believe that's from the suicide mission, during one of those cutscenes where the game doesn't give a damn what gun the characters are using. Since she sort of falls in line with a few other squad members, it looks like they may have removed them and added in a different background. Not 100% on that though.

Modifié par hot_heart, 17 mai 2012 - 11:12 .

[Asakawa]

passing by to share my contribution (well, not money like talking =p) for the #FindMiranda campaign =)

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
And then she comes with you to Cronos to kick Cerberus tail and take over. Dialogue choices influence whether Miranda disbands them, becomes TIM 2.0, or something in between.

While that would be great, I like the idea of Miranda doing something completely new/different just as much. If the email post-mission led to an actual level of the game, and appropriate topics were addressed, that would also do the job.

Basically, there is one big missing piece, either Cronos, or something else that re-establishes Miranda post-Sanctuary.

[drwells123]

hot_heart wrote...

drwells123 wrote...
Beautiful. Is that from her LM  (and with a mod so she can carry that monster)?

At first glance I thought the lettering on the scope said "Hard Look". How true.

I believe that's from the suicide mission, during one of those cutscenes where the game doesn't give a damn what gun the characters are using. Since she sort of falls in line with a few other squad members, it looks like they may have removed them and added in a different background. Not 100% on that though.

That sounds right, when they're trying to shut the doors. I'm looking at a youtube vid of it now and one character does get that solo picture, right after the shot with three of them in a lineup.

Miranda never gets to lead my fire team, as my Shepard is too selfish to let her out of her sight.

[Shotokanguy]

I think you guys missed the idea of what I brought up a couple pages ago.

I'm not exactly saying that I wish children and parenthood had been brought up - the idea was more or less that a good character arc for Miranda would've been her realization that she may be more similar to her father than she would ever want to be, and either her acceptance of who she is or her struggle to change.

Shepard's ability to influence this would make it a pretty compelling series of conversations as well.