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[Caihn]

Asakawa wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

Off topic a bit, but at least they seem to care now about Dragon Age.

They better. It's not like they have much left anyway....

Personally, I've lost faith in Bioware Edmonton.

[shepskisaac]

yesikareyes wrote...

@IsaacShep

Yes they could do that! IIRC I heard that we'll have to play from the start of Cronos station or Earth for the Extended Cut DLC (not sure). So they could definitely add more things on top of the reunion scene that I have been craving.

New Game+ save bumps you right before Cronos Station (and right before sex scenes activate) so from a developement POV, I think it is perfectly easy to make changes already from that moment and that adding sex scenes for Miranda and Jack wouldn't be hard at all. That's why I'm suggesting it. Same for Aria's apartement. I want a new hub to be added to the game anyway, since the Citadel & Normany ain't enough and both ME1 and ME2 had new mini-hubs added in DLCs (apartement in Pinnacle Station in ME1 and Shadow Broker base in ME2). So why not use the oppurtunity of new hub to help fix some other problems? 

yesikareyes wrote...
Dude, I love your suggestion! I recommend you post this in the group so that Tully Ackland can see it

What group?

[enayasoul]

TheMarshal wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

There's a big difference between laziness and tight schedule and limited resources with such a huge cast of characters.

Not really.  Ultimately both mean deciding that something is "good enough" when you know it's not.  And if you didn't have enough resources to manage a huge cast of characters, it was probably a bad decision to make a huge cast of characters in the first place.

That's basically it.  Too many cast of characters to develop and for those that were romanced... they'd do the same to develop those romances.  What we got is bare minimum for all the romances except for one or two fully developed.  They shot themselves in the foot with all the new characters.  They should take the extra time to develop those character.  Hell, I would have agreed with another extended deadline if they really need to time to develop it fully without all these bugs.

 
And guess what?  They added even more characters to develop in ME3... and possible romances.  *shakes head*
They screwed us all.

[yesikareyes]

@IsaacShep

Ooh, me gusta. That's an easy fix! I remember Weekes tweeted that if we do see Miranda or Jack, it will be in an entirely different area for tech reasons. So that could definitely work!

I invited you. It's our #FindMiranda where we discuss our poster and fan book projects. Plus Tully Ackland from BioWare joined the group to be a part of the discussion for Miranda feedback.

[Jebel Krong]

Td1984 wrote...

If you play as a FShep, when you get to the vidcomm conversation on Earth, the two sound like they could be in love. The main thing missing (that I've noticed) is the "finish this and find me" line. Otherwise, the conversation sounds a bit similar to the one where she's romanced. Also, the "control chip" conversation is identical whether she's romanced or not (just no "sexy time" after).

Most conversations with Miranda seem to be identical, regardless of relationship status.

it's only because BW haven't rewritten the entire script for every little change/choice, that would be a tad onerous... we all know mshep and fshep have lots of cross-over redundant dialogue, let alone sccounting for acting interpretation: hale always sounds more emotional than necessary. of course there's lots of cross-dialogue, doesn't mean rkmance wss implied/intended/planned anymore thsn in ME2.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 22 mai 2012 - 08:20 .

[flemm]

enayasoul wrote...
They screwed us all.

Well, they dug themselves a big hole with the Suicide Mission, something they have acknowledged. From an outside point of view, it's easy to underestimate all the challenges and pressures of trying to deal with that, while still trying to make a GotY-level product and meet deadlines, etc.

Some areas of the game are really strong and, in other areas, it just didn't come together. So, I hope they take this seriously as a cooperative effort to try to get some of those weaker areas improved/resolved. We'll see.

[Jebel Krong]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

And even with all the railroading, autodialouge etc, the 'BIOGame_INT' tlk file in ME3 (which containg all dialogues) is STILL much bigger than the same file in ME2.

ME3 had over 44,000 lines of dialog fyi...

IsaacShep wrote...
Conclusion - Bioware had the same developement time to create a game significantly more complex than Mass Effect 2 with much more dialogues. So no, laziness doesn't apply here. They did make some unnecessary decisions that increased the line count that could've been spent elsewhere (like the lines for new players), but that doesn't change the fact that they did have much more content to cram into ME3 than in ME2 yet without increased developement time compared to ME2.

Actually they were hoping to finish the game in less than 2 years even with the addition of MP.  But things weren't coming together as fast as they had hoped so they had to delay it (and  yet they still had to cut Javik out from the main story which caused more issues)

Hudson says the thrid game had the shortest development cycle compared to the other two games:
"In many ways this third game is the most ambitious Mass Effect yet but with the shortest development cycle."

MP was developed separately by the Montreal(?) team. Though i believe they may have contributed to assets and side missions as before. Personally i think a few more months' dev time could have done wonders for the array of small but immersion-breaking and annoying glitches in 3 but not 2...

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I think there's a lot of room for variation in Shep's sexual history. I have one that would have done iPartners, another that was married and divorced, and another that I'm not sure notices non0Miranda people as sex-objects. The divorcee is the only one I RP'd as dumping Miranda, ironically enough.

I wonder if anyone else has made a backstory like this: Cyrus Shepard met Miranda before, in 2176, and had a fling with her when they were both disguised and under cover. When they met again in ME2, they didn't recognize each other until the engine room scene. No in-between relationship for him because he couldn't forget the mysterious woman who was found to not exist according to the Alliance's records.

i think they'd know the first time they kissed or even had sex: you can do a lot of things with surgery but taste, smell, quirks, preferences etc. sure don't (though i'll concede on maybe hormoning out 1&2 by then and maybe some physical changes).

[TheMarshal]

Jebel Krong wrote...

it's only because BW haven't rewritten the entire script for every little change/choice, that would be a tad onerous... we all know mshep and fshep have lots of cross-over redundant dialogue, let alone sccounting for acting interpretation: hale always sounds more emotional than necessary. of course there's lots of cross-dialogue, doesn't mean rkmance wss implied/intended/planned anymore thsn in ME2.

Intended or not, it's still fodder for the more creative minds who aren't going to settle for just what's shown on screen.

[Vertigo_1]

Jebel Krong wrote...
MP was developed separately by the Montreal(?) team. Though i believe they may have contributed to assets and side missions as before. Personally i think a few more months' dev time could have done wonders for the array of small but immersion-breaking and annoying glitches in 3 but not 2...

I know,  they also helped with combat design such as powers (there was a tweet from one of them before about working on Reave and Tali's bonus power Defense drone) but with so many characters coming into ME3 and trying to account for (nearly) everything from past games I think they needed more months (maybe another year).

[Td1984]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Td1984 wrote...

If you play as a FShep, when you get to the vidcomm conversation on Earth, the two sound like they could be in love. The main thing missing (that I've noticed) is the "finish this and find me" line. Otherwise, the conversation sounds a bit similar to the one where she's romanced. Also, the "control chip" conversation is identical whether she's romanced or not (just no "sexy time" after).

Most conversations with Miranda seem to be identical, regardless of relationship status.

it's only because BW haven't rewritten the entire script for every little change/choice, that would be a tad onerous... we all know mshep and fshep have lots of cross-over redundant dialogue, let alone sccounting for acting interpretation: hale always sounds more emotional than necessary. of course there's lots of cross-dialogue, doesn't mean rkmance wss implied/intended/planned anymore thsn in ME2.

I prefer someone to be a bit more emotional than necessary to them being a dang robot.

[jtav]

I know what BW intended. But slashing Miranda with FShep and others is great fun, so I'll keep doing it. I like her with Traynor and Liara, so poof, there are universes where she's with them. Equally real universes even, since she isn't real to begin with.

[drwells123]

Asakawa wrote...

yesikareyes wrote...

Hmm I
watched Miranda's death video with Fshep and it does SUGGEST that there
is something between them. I have only played Fshep once so I don't
really know! It's hard because every time I talk to her... I'm tempted
to switch to my Mshep and romance her.

^ This

my feelings exactly lol

No need to switch.

Thankfully this is much easier to do than in ME2 (where you have to change genders repeatedly before talking to Miranda, which causes your FemShep to look like a polygon trainwreck). The flags are listed here.

MirandaRomanced, PlotIDSet=(5209), PlotIDClear=(), PlotInts=((ID=266,V=5)),PlotCond=((C=235,T=777),(C=236,T=778))

Translated, in Gibbed you just have to do this:



I've never been able to find out what those PlotCond variables are and as far as I know you don't have to worry about them.

Note: make a backup copy of your savegame before trying this, just in case. If your FemShep romanced anyone else previously you might need to clear some other flags, which you can figure out from that list that I linked to above. If you're on an XBox I believe there is still a way to edit your saves with Gibbed. This looks like a place to start.

Modifié par drwells123, 22 mai 2012 - 08:52 .

[Jebel Krong]

TheMarshal wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

it's only because BW haven't rewritten the entire script for every little change/choice, that would be a tad onerous... we all know mshep and fshep have lots of cross-over redundant dialogue, let alone sccounting for acting interpretation: hale always sounds more emotional than necessary. of course there's lots of cross-dialogue, doesn't mean rkmance wss implied/intended/planned anymore thsn in ME2.

Intended or not, it's still fodder for the more creative minds who aren't going to settle for just what's shown on screen.

and that's fine: AU is for exactly that. implying it's in the game already when you know why dialogue is as it is, is not. that kinda thinking got us steve cortez and some very dodgy initial dialogue (citadel convo springs to mind as does his dislohue crashing the shuttle on earth) though he grows into a decent enough character the initial impression of both traynor and himself is they are defined by one thing, and conversations inevitably steer that way - do you seriously want miranda compromised (even more than she is in me3) like that?

[Jebel Krong]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
MP was developed separately by the Montreal(?) team. Though i believe they may have contributed to assets and side missions as before. Personally i think a few more months' dev time could have done wonders for the array of small but immersion-breaking and annoying glitches in 3 but not 2...

I know,  they also helped with combat design such as powers (there was a tweet from one of them before about working on Reave and Tali's bonus power Defense drone) but with so many characters coming into ME3 and trying to account for (nearly) everything from past games I think they needed more months (maybe another year).

i'd almost settle for just the head-turning glitch - drives me insane...

[Vertigo_1]

drwells123 wrote...

Thankfully this is much easier to do than in ME2 (where you have to change genders repeatedly before talking to Miranda, which causes your FemShep to look like a polygon trainwreck).

Hah!

...but does FemShep have spoken lines for romance dialog? I don't remember seeing any while looking through the files...

[TheMarshal]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

I know,  they also helped with combat design such as powers (there was a tweet from one of them before about working on Reave and Tali's bonus power Defense drone) but with so many characters coming into ME3 and trying to account for (nearly) everything from past games I think they needed more months (maybe another year).

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks they could have benefitted from taking the Kill Bill/Deathly Hallows/Breaking Dawn playbook and released the game in two parts.  For the first part, they could have focused on perfecting combat and gameplay mechanics.  The content would have centered around introducing the new mechanics, acclimating new users to the universe, building up the plot, and initiating/reaffirming romances. This would have been a great place to include multiplayer as a way to kill the time before the second part.  Free from having to worry about gameplay mechanics or engine tweaks, they would have been able to allocate resources to focus on storytelling and cinematics.

No telling whether gamers would have accepted such a model, though.  And how to monetize it?  Treat it as two separate games with separate price tags?  One game + DLC for "finished" content?  Buy the first one, get the second one half price?

[drwells123]

TheMarshal wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

There's a big difference between laziness and tight schedule and limited resources with such a huge cast of characters.

Not really.  Ultimately both mean deciding that something is "good enough" when you know it's not.  And if you didn't have enough resources to manage a huge cast of characters, it was probably a bad decision to make a huge cast of characters in the first place.

I always felt (and my impression was that a lot of people on BSN felt the same) that we'd rather wait until 2013 or beyond if that was what it took to make sure the thing was done 100% right.

[drwells123]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

drwells123 wrote...

Thankfully this is much easier to do than in ME2 (where you have to change genders repeatedly before talking to Miranda, which causes your FemShep to look like a polygon trainwreck).

Hah!

...but does FemShep have spoken lines for romance dialog? I don't remember seeing any while looking through the files...

Sadly no, only in LotSB does she say anything about it.

[jtav]

So that's how you mod the game! Will have to try later.

[TheMarshal]

Jebel Krong wrote...

and that's fine: AU is for exactly that. implying it's in the game already when you know why dialogue is as it is, is not. that kinda thinking got us steve cortez and some very dodgy initial dialogue (citadel convo springs to mind as does his dislohue crashing the shuttle on earth) though he grows into a decent enough character the initial impression of both traynor and himself is they are defined by one thing, and conversations inevitably steer that way - do you seriously want miranda compromised (even more than she is in me3) like that?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  It seems like you're implying that the two gay romances are weak characters because they make their sexual preferences known early on.  Traynor is hardly "defined" by her sexuality any more than Garrus or Tali or Jack are.  She flirts with Allers (and FemShep) but aside from that, her conversations are very much focused on the task at hand.  Steve's character development is tied to his late husband, but then again so is Thane's.  Do you consider Thane to be "defined" by his heterosexuality (which is never explicitly stated, by the way)?  I don't think that thinking that Miranda cares for FemShep in any way compromises her character.  Certainly not any more than it would for her caring for a ManShep that's not romancing her.

[yesikareyes]

By my artist friend Sabrina! Looks like Mila Kunis, but still well done

Modifié par yesikareyes, 22 mai 2012 - 09:12 .

[dtrain24]

Off-topic, but did you guys know Thane is only 39 years old in Mass Effect 2? He always seemed like he was much older for a Drell.

[o Ventus]

drwells123 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

There's a big difference between laziness and tight schedule and limited resources with such a huge cast of characters.

Not really.  Ultimately both mean deciding that something is "good enough" when you know it's not.  And if you didn't have enough resources to manage a huge cast of characters, it was probably a bad decision to make a huge cast of characters in the first place.

I always felt (and my impression was that a lot of people on BSN felt the same) that we'd rather wait until 2013 or beyond if that was what it took to make sure the thing was done 100% right.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I sure would. 

With Mass Effect 3, nobody knows how disappointed I was with how each ME2 character was treated (Especially Miranda, obviously).

I will agree that maybe it was a bad idea to create such a staggering cast of characters, especially since you can fit a number of them together. For example, Samara and Thane both fit the "spiritual warrior" archetype, only somewhat variated. Kaidan and Ashley (Obviously) fit their roles almost to a point.

[Jebel Krong]

TheMarshal wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

and that's fine: AU is for exactly that. implying it's in the game already when you know why dialogue is as it is, is not. that kinda thinking got us steve cortez and some very dodgy initial dialogue (citadel convo springs to mind as does his dislohue crashing the shuttle on earth) though he grows into a decent enough character the initial impression of both traynor and himself is they are defined by one thing, and conversations inevitably steer that way - do you seriously want miranda compromised (even more than she is in me3) like that?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  It seems like you're implying that the two gay romances are weak characters because they make their sexual preferences known early on.  Traynor is hardly "defined" by her sexuality any more than Garrus or Tali or Jack are.  She flirts with Allers (and FemShep) but aside from that, her conversations are very much focused on the task at hand.  Steve's character development is tied to his late husband, but then again so is Thane's.  Do you consider Thane to be "defined" by his heterosexuality (which is never explicitly stated, by the way)?  I don't think that thinking that Miranda cares for FemShep in any way compromises her character.  Certainly not any more than it would for her caring for a ManShep that's not romancing her.

You said it yourself: thane's isn't and doesn't need to be stated but cortez wails about it constantly early on. Traynor is better, but i wouldn't want a main squaddie so... Diluted like that.