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[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Main Page:
http://dp-films.devi...t.com/#/d5254x4

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 juin 2012 - 07:58 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
That audiobook is awesome. I want that Miranda. I also wouldn't turn Adam down. But the biggest issue is always that someone saw fit to turn a driven, professional badass into Bella Swan. It doesn't matter who the VA is unless they fix that.

Someone has to bring that statement to Bioware's attention. So true *fumes* #

@101:
That's really nice. Miranda looks badass as she should

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 juin 2012 - 08:04 .

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
That audiobook is awesome. I want that Miranda. I also wouldn't turn Adam down. But the biggest issue is always that someone saw fit to turn a driven, professional badass into Bella Swan. It doesn't matter who the VA is unless they fix that.

Someone has to bring that statement to Bioware's attention. So true *fumes*

Hmm, should have put "Not a Bella Swan" as a word in my poster...in large bold letters...

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 06 juin 2012 - 08:13 .

[Lawrence0294]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

UPDATE for #FindMiranda posters!

We can now track the #FindMiranda posters as they head to Bioware HQ!
Just got the info from Yesika:

tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction

NOTE: Posters and frames were sent in separate shipments (frames were FedEx'd) BUT they should arrive at the same time

Thats great thanx. Any idea when they are supposed to arrive?
Luis, thats a great picture 

[o Ventus]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

I wish they replace Yvonne for more Miranda content...

The VA is not the cause of Miranda's poor treatment in ME3, so stop saying bull****s.

I agree, I find the problem to be the way they decided to write her.  She's too much a "safe character".
And remember, they only gave 3 months of thought to figuring out what to do with all the ME2 characters in ME3.

Also to note: Jack had less time on screen but what was there was pretty damn good.  Way better than what Miranda got IMO.  Why?
Because John Dombrow and Patrick Weekes were part of writing her mission and character.  Of course it would have been nice to have a proper romance scene but I'm just pointing out what's there.

For Miranda we have more screentime but she was written by (mostly) Jay Watamaniuk with Mac Walters doing some dialog (romance?)

Not trying to knock on these people but you can see the difference.

This is one reason why I dislike series or franchises that swap out writers as if they were batteries.

[flemm]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Walters was involved?

Well, I think he's involved in a lot of places because he writes the crit path. In this case, that would mean he wrote the (extremely underwhelming) exchange with Miranda's father.

Jay W. would have written the bulk of the role. But, being a junior writer, he probably didn't have much creative control over the general direction or shape of the role (though I can't really be sure).

Modifié par flemm, 06 juin 2012 - 08:26 .

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

That audiobook is awesome. I want that Miranda. I also wouldn't turn Adam down. But the biggest issue is always that someone saw fit to turn a driven, professional badass into Bella Swan. It doesn't matter who the VA is unless they fix that.

One of the things I have tried to do since I started posting here is listen to what people say about Miranda, and why they like (or dislike, for that matter) the character. I've also been doing quite a bit of Miranda-related reading lately, while organizing the book.

People like Miranda for a lot of different reasons, obviously, we all know that. And everybody's perspective is different. But one common thread is that everybody (basically, that I can see) who likes the character likes the character's complexity, the multiple facets.

One area that may have led to misunderstanding is the fact that, while some people fall in love with Miranda right away, other people do take a while to really bond with Miranda, through discovering the layers over time. So, I guess it might have been easy to say, well, people like Miranda because she is sexy, and because they find out she loves her sister, but the rest of it doesn't really matter to them.

But if you pay attention, it is obvious that this is not how it works. Once people bond with Miranda, however long it takes, then it's the whole package that they like. Nobody wants her professional, competent, ambitious, driven side to disappear, or for her to stop being complex, and so on. I'm generalizing, but that does seem to be part of the problem here, and why the overall reaction to Miranda's ME3 content seems to be a collective "wtf?," often even from people who are not really fans, or not diehard fans.

Modifié par flemm, 06 juin 2012 - 08:49 .

[Dr. Doctor]

@ Verigo

For his first crack at writing Jay did some things right. Shepard and Miranda banter back and forth and Shepard's romance lines are a definite improvement from ME2. With more practice I'm sure he'll get better.

Not having Jack as a squadmate didn't bug me as much because she had her students. Miranda really has nothing beyond Oriana and that SB email.

To me the mission on Gellix seems like it would be a pretty good place to launch Miranda's story arc. Having the ex-2IC of Cerberus running a rogue cell made up of other disenfranchised operatives would fix some of the problems with the Cerberus side of her story. The whole "What if she's dead?" problem is solved by Brinn, she's close enough to Miranda and the mission works pretty well as is. As for the whole Oriana situation, I'd put her and her family on the base as well. Considering that TIM could easily sell out her locaion so keeping her close at a hidden base would make sense. The escape shuttle she's put on however would get intercepted by Cerberus just to keep the current crit path in order.

As for changes to the mission itself having Kai Leng leading the attack would be nice. We don't really see him that much early on in the game and having the first confrontation with him involve an Empire Strikes Back -style attack on a rouge base would be a little more impressive introduction than having his ass handed to him by Thane. 

The end result is a Miranda who's just had the last bastion of the Cerberus she's believed in destroyed by TIM in addition to having her sister kidnapped under her watch. They've made her angry, and she's a damgerous enemy to have. 

[Vertigo_1]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

@ Vertigo

For his first crack at writing Jay did some things right. Shepard and Miranda banter back and forth and Shepard's romance lines are a definite improvement from ME2. With more practice I'm sure he'll get better.

Sure, but we don't know if he did romance dialog or not.  If he did good on him.  It's the rest I have issue with.

Dr. Doctor wrote...
Not having Jack as a squadmate didn't bug me as much because she had her students. Miranda really has nothing beyond Oriana and that SB email.

That's what I'm saying, Jack had a great reason to be away once the mission was done.  Miranda not so much.

Dr. Doctor wrote...
To me the mission on Gellix seems like it would be a pretty good place to launch Miranda's story arc. Having the ex-2IC of Cerberus running a rogue cell made up of other disenfranchised operatives would fix some of the problems with the Cerberus side of her story. The whole "What if she's dead?" problem is solved by Brinn, she's close enough to Miranda and the mission works pretty well as is. As for the whole Oriana situation, I'd put her and her family on the base as well. Considering that TIM could easily sell out her locaion so keeping her close at a hidden base would make sense. The escape shuttle she's put on however would get intercepted by Cerberus just to keep the current crit path in order.

That would make things complicated since Jacob is there too.  There'd be more lines to record for certain variables like what if Miranda is alive but Jacob isn't?  So far all missions (aside from the main arcs) have it just with singular characters (Samara's mission, Jack, etc)

I know Weekes and Dombrow mentioned in the PAX panel that the genophage arc was complicated to do since you have either either or both characters dead.  I know Jacob doesn't have a replacement but it would still make it more complicated to create it like that.

We'd also miss out on her confrontation with her Father (I'd like a better version than what we got)
Not that I don't like the general direction of your idea heh

[flemm]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
With more practice I'm sure he'll get better.

I'm sure. And anyway, it has nothing to do with him personally. I'm sure he is an admirable individual.

It's also likely, I guess, that he was limited in certain ways by constraints imposed on him.

Nonetheless, whatever the contributing factors, the writing for Miranda in the game just isn't very good. It's something that we noticed immediately upon perusing the leaked script, to the point that we were hoping it was a rough draft or something.

A lot of lines could just be deleted because they don't really mean anything. As hot_heart was pointing out recently, the entire second conversation adds almost nothing of substance. It amounts to, "just checking in to say that I am doing some awesome stuff over here that you will never see!"

After the main confrontation on Sanctuary, there are a lot of very awkward lines that are meant to assure us that, yes, what Miranda did was really super awesome ("I don't think of myself as a damsel in distress."/"Well, you did break into this base while it was being attacked by Reapers, that's pretty cool! *wink, wink*"), the problem being, of course, that what we see isn't cool at all, Miranda is just beat up on the ground. Hence why these otherwise pointless lines are necessary.

A particularly amusing one is in the first conversation, where Miranda says she is looking up some contacts, and Shepard points out that the Citadel doesn't really make sense for that. And Miranda insists she'll find somebody to talk to there. Umm... yeah. Fascinating stuff. Glad we spent all those lines clearing that up, instead of talking about why Miranda left Cerberus or something.

Compare with ME2, where basically every line is worth debating and discussing.

Modifié par flemm, 06 juin 2012 - 10:39 .

[o Ventus]

flemm wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...
With more practice I'm sure he'll get better.

I'm sure. And anyway, it has nothing to do with him personally. I'm sure he is an admirable individual.

It's also likely, I guess, that he was limited in certain ways by constraints imposed on him.

Nonetheless, whatever the contributing factors, the writing for Miranda in the game just isn't very good. It's something that we noticed immediately upon perusing the leaked script, to the point that we were hoping it was a rough draft or something.

A lot of lines could just be deleted because they don't really mean anything. As hot_heart was pointing out recently, the entire second conversation adds almost nothing of substance. It amounts to, "just checking in to say that I am doing some awesome stuff over here that you will never see!"

After the main confrontation on Sanctuary, there are a lot of very awkward lines that are meant to assure us that, yes, what Miranda did was really super awesome ("I don't think of myself as a damsel in distress."/"Well, you did break into this base while it was being attacked by Reapers, that's pretty cool! *wink, wink*"), the problem being, of course, that what we see isn't cool at all, Miranda is just beat up on the ground. Hence why these otherwise pointless lines are necessary.

A particularly amusing one is in the first conversation, where Miranda says she is looking up some contacts, and Shepard points out that the Citadel doesn't really make sense for that. And Miranda insists she'll find somebody to talk to there. Umm... yeah. Fascinating stuff. Glad we spent all those lines clearing that up, instead of talking about why Miranda left Cerberus or something.

Compare with ME2, where basically every line is worth debating and discussing.

I know I've said this before, but it still holds true.

Show, don't tell. The adage remains true.

[hot_heart]

I get the feeling the 'owed a few favours' thing is meant to hint at her network of contacts, since I'm not sure she really delves into that aspect beforehand.

At least whoever wrote it paid attention to her manner of speaking in phrases like "No question".

In sort of related news, I was worried my story might not get a new chapter for a while but a few things are starting to fall into place. I won't promise it'll be done in a week but I'm hopeful...

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...
I know I've said this before, but it still holds true.

Show, don't tell. The adage remains true.

That's true, I would also add: If you can only talk, then talk about stuff that matters.

The third dialog is the only one that really does that at all. And there it apparently took a pretty major rewrite (by Weekes, I think).

Modifié par flemm, 06 juin 2012 - 10:49 .

[jtav]

I blame a lot of those lines on something like this happening:

Mac: So we'll have Shep rescue Miranda at Sanctuary...
Jay: Um, boss, about that. About the only thing her fans agree on is that they like her competent.
Mac: I already have the basic shape of the role mapped out. Do what you can.
Jay: Yes sir *muttering* I wanted to write Grunt, but I had to get stuck with the cheerleader...

[flemm]

hot_heart wrote...

I get the feeling the 'owed a few favours' thing is meant to hint at her network of contacts, since I'm not sure she really delves into that aspect beforehand..

Well, it's already established by then that Miranda is there to look up some contacts. What I'm refering to is an investigate option that basically involves Shepard saying there won't be Cerberus contacts on the Citadel, and Miranda saying she will find somebody because she is owed some favors. It doesn't really add anything of substance.

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...
With more practice I'm sure he'll get better.

I'm sure. And anyway, it has nothing to do with him personally. I'm sure he is an admirable individual.

It's also likely, I guess, that he was limited in certain ways by constraints imposed on him.

Nonetheless, whatever the contributing factors, the writing for Miranda in the game just isn't very good. It's something that we noticed immediately upon perusing the leaked script, to the point that we were hoping it was a rough draft or something.

A lot of lines could just be deleted because they don't really mean anything. As hot_heart was pointing out recently, the entire second conversation adds almost nothing of substance. It amounts to, "just checking in to say that I am doing some awesome stuff over here that you will never see!"

After the main confrontation on Sanctuary, there are a lot of very awkward lines that are meant to assure us that, yes, what Miranda did was really super awesome ("I don't think of myself as a damsel in distress."/"Well, you did break into this base while it was being attacked by Reapers, that's pretty cool! *wink, wink*"), the problem being, of course, that what we see isn't cool at all, Miranda is just beat up on the ground. Hence why these otherwise pointless lines are necessary.

A particularly amusing one is in the first conversation, where Miranda says she is looking up some contacts, and Shepard points out that the Citadel doesn't really make sense for that. And Miranda insists she'll find somebody to talk to there. Umm... yeah. Fascinating stuff. Glad we spent all those lines clearing that up, instead of talking about why Miranda left Cerberus or something.

Compare with ME2, where basically every line is worth debating and discussing.

Yeah when people say Miranda got more content than some i'm always thinking but so much of it could very well be described as filler. I don't particularly blame the writer as no doubt he would have liked to do more but if as a junior writer you are told to write based on a completely tiny boxed in premise it is going to show.

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

I blame a lot of those lines on something like this happening:

Mac: So we'll have Shep rescue Miranda at Sanctuary...
Jay: Um, boss, about that. About the only thing her fans agree on is that they like her competent.
Mac: I already have the basic shape of the role mapped out. Do what you can.
Jay: Yes sir *muttering* I wanted to write Grunt, but I had to get stuck with the cheerleader...

But, he DID write Grunt (and his mission) though...
Weekes mentioned it in a twitter response sometime ago

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 06 juin 2012 - 11:07 .

[hot_heart]

flemm wrote...
Well, it's already established by then that
Miranda is there to look up some contacts. What I'm refering to is an
investigate option that basically involves Shepard saying there won't be
Cerberus contacts on the Citadel, and Miranda saying she will find
somebody because she is owed some favors. It doesn't really add anything
of substance.

I see what you're saying, I can only guess at what its purpose was. Obviously the 'meet people' thing is vague and almost purposeless until she tells you about Oriana (which she may not do if you say you're not interested). The conversation is a bit wayward and partly why I skipped over some of it when writing.

Maybe it was meant to be more like that email from the app that was released, which was something along the lines of "Met some old contacts. They didn't want to talk, but they did", and just kind of missed the mark.

Modifié par hot_heart, 06 juin 2012 - 11:04 .

[dtrain24]

Guys, I was wondering if we could get some more activity with tweeting the BW devs?
Just tweet them with a cool, friendly message with #FindMiranda.
Thanks!

[shepskisaac]

Take it with a huge grain of salt, however, Alix Wilton Regan, Samantha's voice actress had 2 VO session mid-May: twitter.com/AlixWiltonRegan/status/202216469663199232 She didn't say what for, but it is quite possible it was for EC/ME3 DLC considering that other voice actors were recording around that time. If Alix returns, then I'm 100% Yvonne will be back too.

Not much, but hopefully some positive news that for Miri fans

[flemm]

IsaacShep wrote...


Not much, but hopefully some positive news that for Miri fans

Well, we'll see. Thanks for keeping us up to date in any event, Isaac.

Modifié par flemm, 06 juin 2012 - 11:26 .

[Stalker]

I am still worried that we just hear from everyone on the Normandy...
None of the roles which are comparable to Miranda are confirmed yet. (Jack, Samara, Grunt...)

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 06 juin 2012 - 11:38 .

[Vertigo_1]

IsaacShep wrote...

Take it with a huge grain of salt, however, Alix Wilton Regan, Samantha's voice actress had 2 VO session mid-May: twitter.com/AlixWiltonRegan/status/202216469663199232 She didn't say what for, but it is quite possible it was for EC/ME3 DLC considering that other voice actors were recording around that time. If Alix returns, then I'm 100% Yvonne will be back too.

I'm having a hard time understanding how if she's back then Yvonne is back?

Besides I've asked Courtenay Taylor (VA for Jack) about VO work for Bioware and got this as a response:

twitter.com/_Vertigo_1/status/200377552940957696
"Has Bioware contacted you for the Extended Cut DLC Voice over work? Some have https://twitter.com/#!/kimberlydbrooks/status/199983935965499392 & https://twitter.com/#!/RaphaelSbarge/status/198479598638469121"

twitter.com/courtenaytaylor/status/200414659805855744
"Hey guys - I'm so sorry not to be able to answer any questions about game stuff...I just can't unless it's been released. #mybigmouthSHUT"

If she announces she's back (she did that one time before ME3 if you remember) then that is a 100% guarantee that Yvonne is back.

[shepskisaac]

Mr Massakka wrote...

None of the roles which are comparable to Miranda responded yet. (Jack, Samara, Grunt...)

Sam is comparable to Miranda. Both stay at one location during the entire ending. Miranda in London, Sam on the Normandy. Neither teleports inexplicably (which will HAVE to be fixed) like the squadmates and Steve do (from London to Normandy).

[Skullheart]

I think the CE won't be enough to fix Miranda, even if there is voiced content. She'd need an entire DLC devoted to her, like LotSB.