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[Babi_Siha]

Ieldra2 wrote...

On the Hold the Line forums, Christ Priestly asked what was the worst thing about ME3 apart from the ending.

I said something about how Miranda was treated...

I'm not registered there, but there were so many things wrong with the game. Aside from Miranda's treatment, which that goes without saying here, the game was rushed, had awful side quests (seriously, anyone almost stopped playing the game because of those artifact quests?) and the decent ones were very few, like Emergency Evacuation, Tuchanka: Bomb and Turian Platoon, Krogan Team, Ardat-Yakshi Monastery and Rannoch: Admiral Koris, all the artifact missions were awful and the N7 missions just felt like a MP session; if compared to the previous games the side quests were practically non-existing.

The auto-dialogues I didn't like as well, I'm not against more interaction, just the way it was handled. It was just terrible when I went to talk to a character and all I got was a Kasumi/Zaeed like experience.

Only two dialogue choices. Not only was that decision bad for replay value (I won't be playing the SP anymore because there's nothing else to see) but it didn't give us players the option to properly shape Shepard like we wanted. There were times I just wanted act neutrally, but I didn't have such choice.

EDI and Vega. Don't get me wrong, I like EDI... as she was in ME2, I didn't like that she was made into a squad because not only did that feel like a bad sci-fi movie plot but also because that took the spot of a possible ME2 character as a squad. And same thing with Vega, BW decided to do new players a little service so they could identify with the new character and according to Weekes, that too took the spot of another ME2 character as a squad, not to mention Vega is a horrible character, arrogant, dumb and didn't really add anything to the game, just outrage ot the fans maybe. It pisses me off that BW cared more about making new players feel confortable than about its old, most loyal fans.

And the MP. Despite what the devs say, EA wouldn't give BW a budget for the SP campaign and the MP. So while the MP wan enjoyable at first, I would much rather if it never existed so that its budget would go only for the SP.

[Dr. Doctor]

Auto-dialogue in ME3 really only bothered me because it took away the ability to play the Shepard the way I wanted. DA2 on the other hand did a really good job with auto-dialogue, the dialogue responses that the player chooses determines what sort of personality Hawke has and changes certain lines of dialogue accordingly. I might not be able to pick everything Hawke says but when the game does assume direct control he stays in-character.

Vega is kind of a mixed bag for me, he's the Normandy's village idiot and other than that whole deal with the Collectors we don't really get any interaction with him. When he comes up to Shepard's room to ask him if he should try to become an N7 I really didn't care what dialogue option I picked because I didn't know what kind of person he was. They could have made him some character on the ship like Sam or Steve and I wouldn't have noticed.

I like multiplayer. There's something fun about taking a class, specing it out and just tearing into a bunch of baddies but horde mode sort of gets boring after awhile. When Bioware first said that they were doing MP my first thought was something similar to Baldur's Gate where you could play through a story-based campaign with a bunch of your buddies which would have been cool. Instead its a "grind so you can get a higher EMS number" that works as the incentive to play.

Also plot threads just disappearing was a big problem:

Dark Energy
EDI's fancy anti-Reaper cyberwarfare algorithims
Harbinger
The huge project that the scientists on Gellix were talking about
The entire Cerberus arc

are all things that either are never discussed or are brought up then never talked about again.

[Babi_Siha]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Also plot threads just disappearing was a big problem:

Dark Energy
EDI's fancy anti-Reaper cyberwarfare algorithims
Harbinger
The huge project that the scientists on Gellix were talking about
The entire Cerberus arc

Forgot to mention those as well. Up till this day I don't know why the devs didn't stick to Drew's idea and used Dark Energy to destroy the Reapers. It was probably Walters and his ego that decided to write something based on his idea so he could take the credit. Stll, I'm glad he did got the credits for the ending, because everyone knows how much they sucked.

And the lack of Harbinger was just as bad. He was a major villain in ME2 and to give it that treatment in ME3 is just wrong.

Oh, another thing I forgot to mention that was what I hated the most. Our choices didn't matter, at all. Everything we did in the past games play zero part in the ending.

A lot of people say ME3 was a perfect game untill the ending. I don't think so, the endings just made the game worse than it was.

[Vertigo_1]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Auto-dialogue in ME3 really only bothered me because it took away the ability to play the Shepard the way I wanted.

In my 2nd, 3rd and 4th (which is not finished, waiting on EC) runs I would alt tab out while the auto-dialog was going on.

I never did that before...not with ME1 or ME2. Ever. That's how disinterested I was.

Dr. Doctor wrote...
Also plot threads just disappearing was a big problem:

Dark Energy
EDI's fancy anti-Reaper cyberwarfare algorithims
Harbinger
The huge project that the scientists on Gellix were talking about
The entire Cerberus arc

are all things that either are never discussed or are brought up then never talked about again.

I was actually expecting in ME3 for her to temporarily take over a Reaper or something to help in the fight on the group during Priority Earth

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 07 juin 2012 - 03:53 .

[wright1978]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Auto-dialogue in ME3 really only bothered me because it took away the ability to play the Shepard the way I wanted.

In my 2nd, 3rd and 4th (which is not finished, waiting on EC) runs I would alt tab out while the auto-dialog was going on.

I never did that before...not with ME1 or ME2. Ever. That's how disinterested I was.

The mere thought of auto-dialogue is one of the reasons i can't even think of replaying. Going to use the EC as motivation to do a second runthrough once i know when it will be released. Best case scenario i can see is a good extended cut and several good standalone DLC's where proper dialogue choice is returned might make the large amounts of auto-dialogue in the main game more bearable.

[Dr. Doctor]

Dark Energy seemed interesting but EDI talking about how she was developing progams to fight the Reapers seemed a little more interesting than what we got. Yeah, hacking into the Reaper's systems so we can blow them up is straight out of Independence Day but at least it isn't as much of a deus ex machina moment as the Crucible.

On a similar note did anyone else sort of get the feeling early on that the Crucible was going to be some sort of trap? A superweapon who's schematics just so happen to be sitting in the Prothean archives? Combined with the fact that it inexplicably requires the Citadel to function I sort of got the feeling that somewhere down the line the Reapers found out about it and sabotaged the design. Congratulations, when you fire this thing up it'll blow up in your face and knock out the Mass Relay system.

[kaymarierose]

On those forums I wanted to talk about my dislike of the lack of Miranda content, but I figured that it wasn't just Miranda that they screwed over. So I just wrote that the general lack of ME2 character content is what bothered me. All of them need more, but Miranda needs the additional romance content as well. But that's just my personal bias of LIs.

[Vertigo_1]

kaymarierose wrote...

On those forums I wanted to talk about my dislike of the lack of Miranda content, but I figured that it wasn't just Miranda that they screwed over. So I just wrote that the general lack of ME2 character content is what bothered me. All of them need more, but Miranda needs the additional romance content as well. But that's just my personal bias of LIs.

Yeah I saw that post...I had to quote it and add my 2 cents heh
Well done btw!

[Skullheart]

One of the odd things is that it took 30 years and walters waifu to find about the Crucible. I mean, the Reapers visited Earth when mankind was primitive, but they left the archives with the weapon ready to kill them.

And, dumb humans didn't find it after 30 years of investigating the archives. Deus Ex Machina wasn't the best way to end the trilogy.

And another thing, all your decisions and war assets reduced to a number (a number that doesn't really matter thanks to MP). No real difference in the battle for earth if you acquired or lost different factions (why can't I see rachni allies on Earth, why are krogans fighting there after I killed Wrex on the Citadel).

And of course, the mutilation of Miranda, I don't think I'll need to explain that.

[jtav]

I think her romance is fine, excepting the lack of a pre-Cronos scene and the flashback. Better than ME2 even. It's the character I want to choke.

[Skullheart]

The romance is fine ony if she dies...

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
On a similar note did anyone else sort of get the feeling early on that the Crucible was going to be some sort of trap? A superweapon who's schematics just so happen to be sitting in the Prothean archives? Combined with the fact that it inexplicably requires the Citadel to function I sort of got the feeling that somewhere down the line the Reapers found out about it and sabotaged the design. Congratulations, when you fire this thing up it'll blow up in your face and knock out the Mass Relay system.

No, I didn't get that impression at all. Had the Crucible been a trap, it would've been very, very obvious. One thing Bioware has never been good at is subtle. Even Miranda's complexity was probably unintended. 

[kaymarierose]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

kaymarierose wrote...

On those forums I wanted to talk about my dislike of the lack of Miranda content, but I figured that it wasn't just Miranda that they screwed over. So I just wrote that the general lack of ME2 character content is what bothered me. All of them need more, but Miranda needs the additional romance content as well. But that's just my personal bias of LIs.

Yeah I saw that post...I had to quote it and add my 2 cents heh
Well done btw!

Thanks. I'm just glad that it was coherent, it was a little early in the morning for me. I was still half asleep. 

[Stalker]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...
On a similar note did anyone else sort of get the feeling early on that the Crucible was going to be some sort of trap? A superweapon who's schematics just so happen to be sitting in the Prothean archives? Combined with the fact that it inexplicably requires the Citadel to function I sort of got the feeling that somewhere down the line the Reapers found out about it and sabotaged the design. Congratulations, when you fire this thing up it'll blow up in your face and knock out the Mass Relay system.

No, I didn't get that impression at all. Had the Crucible been a trap, it would've been very, very obvious. One thing Bioware has never been good at is subtle. Even Miranda's complexity was probably unintended. 

I agree that it is highly unlikely with BioWare's writing habits, but it would have been a really great twist I really started believing after some time in the game:
Motivating the galaxy to throw all of their forces on a useless device is actually a pretty great plan from Reaper side. After they wiped out this misguided resistance, they would have the galaxy in an instant.
Gamemechanic-wise it would be up to EMS if your forces manage to fight back or die inside the trap. Great way to wrap up how underestimated the organics are in the eyes of the Reapers.

Just thinking about the ways BioWare has gone and all the missed possiblities makes me sad...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 07 juin 2012 - 04:53 .

[Lawrence0294]

Huh...just saw the result of the big survey. 36% for liara as a LI. I hope bioware doesn't go: "wow she is just so populare, let's do more dlc for her shall we"

[ripslip]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Even Miranda's complexity was probably unintended. 

Agree and disagree. I think you can say the above about any fictional character that has been scrutinized and analyzed to the degree Miranda has. So in that sense, yes I do think that they lucked out with a lot of her complexity, but you tend to get luckier the more talented you are. Miranda had some of the seemingly better writers working on her.

I do think that she was intended to be a more round/3d/complex character due to her billing as a promenent character and her importance to the story, but I also think they were fortunate that all of the pieces fell into place perfectly. There's no way they planned all of her as she is. But, going for complexity could very well lead to bipolar/schizophrenic/multiple-personality in the hands of awful writers.

How far on the scale of luck to skill, unintended to planned the facets of her character are is certainly up for debate, but I don't think you're giving the writers enough credit.

[Skullheart]

kratos0294 wrote...

Huh...just saw the result of the big survey. 36% for liara as a LI. I hope bioware doesn't go: "wow she is just so populare, let's do more dlc for her shall we"

I can Imagine walters deciding something like making her the leader of the Cerberus remnants, cause Miranda is dead in canon.

[hot_heart]

Going back to the dialogue stuff, there really didn't seem like a lot of depth in some of that. Even the genophage stuff, which I believe one of the writers was saying every line was 'on point' was really just straightforward stuff. ME1 and 2 brought far more depth into the thing whereas 3 was left with the blockbuster-y "Let's go and do the thing!"

If it's true that Weekes wrote Miranda and Mordin, those are two of the strongest cases for the complexity being there. Since Mordin was originally supposed to be a renegade "Yeah, I worked on maintaining the genophage. So what?" character.

Oh, and for anecdotal evidence's sake, my friend dumped Miranda for Liara. He had romanced her before, in ME1, but I still made him feel bad about it.

Modifié par hot_heart, 07 juin 2012 - 05:14 .

[Skullheart]

so, your friend killed Miranda. Nice.

[ripslip]

hot_heart wrote...
ME1 and 2 brought far more depth into the thing whereas 3 was left with the blockbuster-y "Let's go and do the thing!"
.

Because ME3 is a great starting point for new players!!!1111 /sarcasm

Modifié par ripslip, 07 juin 2012 - 05:14 .

[Td1984]

o Ventus wrote...

Td1984 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Random Socratic experiment incoming.

Suppose Miranda appeared at your door the next morning after you wake up. Realistically, what would your reaction be?

I'd say "Yvonne, what's with the Miranda cosplay?"

"Who? I don't know anyone named Yvonne."

*snip*

"You mean you came back in time and I'm actually Commander Shepard? ****. Unless you can transform me into such a badass that Chuck Norris looks like an azure, we're all ****ed." 

Modifié par Td1984, 07 juin 2012 - 05:23 .

[Td1984]

kratos0294 wrote...

Huh...just saw the result of the big survey. 36% for liara as a LI. I hope bioware doesn't go: "wow she is just so populare, let's do more dlc for her shall we"

Well, that would be DLC I'd refuse to buy (despite having 2 FSheps that romanced her).

[Skullheart]

Don't worry. The protagonist of ME4 will be Shepard's Asari daughter.

Modifié par Skullheart, 07 juin 2012 - 05:35 .

[Babi_Siha]

Just created an account at HTL, even though I don't agree with some extremists there, to reply to Priestly's topic. Though I wonder if he or anyone at BW will actually read the replys or if it was just a PR move to try to look like the company cares about the fans.

[hot_heart]

Skullheart wrote...
so, your friend killed Miranda. Nice.

Yep. I mean, he had no idea that was the cause but I made sure he knew.