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[MisterJB]

"I'll always want you in my life...You found her and I found you. That's all that matters...We'll get you out of here...Don't say goodbye...I will. I promise."
I think Shepard has his fair share of reciprocity.

[jtav]

Shepard is an absolute prince. He's clearly smitten with her.

[dtrain24]

MisterJB wrote...

"I'll always want you in my life...You found her and I found you. That's all that matters...We'll get you out of here...Don't say goodbye...I will. I promise."
I think Shepard has his fair share of reciprocity.

Okay, true. But I would have liked an "I love you, Miranda" somewhere in the game. (Besides her death scene. And Miranda says it first there.)

[flemm]

For the most part, I think the romance works. Mostly it just needs *more*, and especially a better payoff.

What happens/doesn't happen at the end of Sanctuary is just a storytelling crime on every level, including the romance.

Modifié par flemm, 09 juin 2012 - 04:29 .

[dtrain24]

flemm wrote...

For the most part, I think the romance works. Mostly it just needs *more*, and especially a better payoff.

What happens/doesn't happen at the end of Sanctuary is just a storytelling crime on every level, including the romance.

Agreed. That was prime time for confession of feelings and we didn't get that. Also prime time for inviting Miranda onto the Normandy. We didn't get that either.

[SpectresHonour]

MisterJB wrote...

Sorry, I've grown an intense dislike for Ashley in ME3, both due to her new look and that "Real Person" line.

kratos0294 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Speaking of emails, it is not something mentioned often but I tougth it was a nice touch Miranda's differs based on romance or lack thereof.

What are you talking about? 

Was my english faulty?
Romanced:


Non Romanced:

I don't know if this has happened to anybody else, but I got a very different non-romance e-mail from Miri:

(How do you post pics on the forum?)

Commander

I heard about your stay with the Alliance. I Can only imagine what nonsense they cooked up to keep you there. We should talk. It's safer in person.

You'll find me on the Citadel by Bay D24.

Miranda

[dtrain24]

@JB
Didn't see your post before. I hate Ashley too. And I wanted to discuss that line actually. I think Ash is totally jealous when she comes up with that "I'm a real person with flaws and all." I wanted Shepard to say "You would know, you have too many." Still, pretty ****y route for Ash to take.

@SpectresHonour (Nice name btw!)
Click "Use the standard form" next to submit. Then you can just copy and paste the image you want to add, OR you can C/P the link of the image and incase the link in the image tags. 

Modifié par dtrain24, 09 juin 2012 - 04:43 .

[flemm]

dtrain24 wrote...

@JB
Didn't see your post before. I hate Ashley too. And I wanted to discuss that line actually. I think Ash is totally jealous when she comes up with that "I'm a real person with flaws and all." I wanted Shepard to say "You would know, you have too many." Still, pretty ****y route for Ash to take.

I think it's a good line, actually. Because there would, realistically, be prejudice against Miranda due to her origins. It makes sense that Ashley would have that reactionary mentality in the game.

I don't *like* the line, but I think it's in-character and doesn't really affect my opinion of Ashley.

[dtrain24]

flemm wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

@JB
Didn't see your post before. I hate Ashley too. And I wanted to discuss that line actually. I think Ash is totally jealous when she comes up with that "I'm a real person with flaws and all." I wanted Shepard to say "You would know, you have too many." Still, pretty ****y route for Ash to take.

I think it's a good line, actually. Because there would, realistically, be prejudice against Miranda due to her origins. It makes sense that Ashley would have that reactionary mentality in the game.

I don't *like* the line, but I think it's in-character and doesn't really affect my opinion of Ashley.

Well, I think it makes sense. But it still makes me dislike Ashley for it. Along with other things. Have you seen anyone with worse trust issues? 

[flemm]

dtrain24 wrote...

Well, I think it makes sense. But it still makes me dislike Ashley for it. Along with other things. Have you seen anyone with worse trust issues? 

Truth be told, I saved Kaidan back on Virmire, so I haven't really seen much of Ashley in ME3.

Just know that line from YouTube

Modifié par flemm, 09 juin 2012 - 04:56 .

[Spitfire017]

@dtrain: "worst trust issues?" I don't know what game you played there, but I got Ash's trust back with no difficulty. Hell, she turned her gun on Udina without even a paragon/renegade check. That is how much trust she had in Shepard, even when I broke it off with her during my Miri-romance play through did she quickly turn the gun on Udina and followed Shepard. How many scenes does she have so called "trust issues..." two on Mars and the Udina coup. That's not a lot.

Edit: That line that Ash says regarding Miranda is from a HURT person who is angry (not really jealous), nothing more nothing less. It really is a natural reaction if you think about it.

Anyway, thanks for the input and opinions to my scenario I posted earlier. Appreciate it.

Modifié par Spitfire017, 09 juin 2012 - 05:08 .

[dtrain24]

Spitfire017 wrote...

@dtrain: "worst trust issues?" I don't know what game you played there, but I got Ash's trust back with no difficulty. Hell, she turned her gun on Udina without even a paragon/renegade check. That is how much trust she had in Shepard, even when I broke it off with her during my Miri-romance play through did she quickly turn the gun on Udina and followed Shepard. How many scenes does she have so called "trust issues..." two on Mars and the Udina coup. That's not a lot.

Edit: That line that Ash says regarding Miranda is from a HURT person who is angry (not really jealous), nothing more nothing less. It really is a natural reaction if you think about it.

Anyway, thanks for the input and opinions to my scenario I posted earlier. Appreciate it.

Not sure if Ashley should be so angry at Shepard. She basically tossed him aside on Horizon in ME2.

And you'd think that scene wouldn't happen. She saw Shepard kill a Reaper. She wouldn't listen to him when he tried to explain the circumstances. Cerberus brought him back to life to help save human colonies. She knew the Alliance wasn't doing squat.  Then she comes up with these "I used to know the Commander" lines in ME3. She was about to KILL Shepard on the Udina Coup. And in one death scene, she even tells Shepard she hopes the Reapers drag him to hell. She knows Shepard isn't a bad guy. Sure, it's easy to sometimes get her trust back, but that was your scenario.

[dtrain24]

flemm wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

Well, I think it makes sense. But it still makes me dislike Ashley for it. Along with other things. Have you seen anyone with worse trust issues? 

Truth be told, I saved Kaidan back on Virmire, so I haven't really seen much of Ashley in ME3.

Just know that line from YouTube

I saved Kaidan in my recent playthrough also.

[Dr. Doctor]

I was sort of disappointed that all we get for having an ME2 LI is a single line of dialogue. When I first took Ash to Sanctuary I thought there was going to be some recognition of the fact that I stuck with Miranda, but instead I got nothing. 

To me Ash and Kaidan stopped being Ash and Kaidan after ME1. From a characterization standpoint there's no longer any major difference between one or the other beyond romance and abilities. I've got no real reason to have the VS on the team unless I romanced them, otherwise I'm left with a character who's Zaeed minus the cool stories.

[MisterJB]

flemm wrote...
I think it's a good line, actually. Because there would, realistically, be prejudice against Miranda due to her origins. It makes sense that Ashley would have that reactionary mentality in the game.

I don't *like* the line, but I think it's in-character and doesn't really affect my opinion of Ashley.

I like that the line exists(an appropriate answer would be great, too). It makes sense; not everyone would look to Miranda's birth and condition with good eyes; and differing opinions as well as conflict are part of any good history.
It does affect how I think of Ashley however.

Spitfire017 wrote...
Edit: That line that Ash says regarding Miranda is from a HURT person who is angry (not really jealous), nothing more nothing less. It really is a natural reaction if you think about it. 

It also denotes a certain close-mindedness.

Modifié par MisterJB, 09 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[SpectresHonour]

dtrain24 wrote...
@SpectresHonour (Nice name btw!)
Click "Use the standard form" next to submit. Then you can just copy and paste the image you want to add, OR you can C/P the link of the image and incase the link in the image tags. 

Thanks, my name here is a spin-off of my writing pen-name Knights-Honour (seeing how the Spectres are the Knights of the galaxy)

And thanks for the info I'll keep it in mind for next time.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

@JB
Didn't see your post before. I hate Ashley too. And I wanted to discuss that line actually. I think Ash is totally jealous when she comes up with that "I'm a real person with flaws and all." I wanted Shepard to say "You would know, you have too many." Still, pretty ****y route for Ash to take.

I think it's a good line, actually. Because there would, realistically, be prejudice against Miranda due to her origins. It makes sense that Ashley would have that reactionary mentality in the game.

I don't *like* the line, but I think it's in-character and doesn't really affect my opinion of Ashley.

Yep, I've always thought it's totally IC for Ashley, since she's the most conservative of the team members. Within my games, it makes Shepard like Ashley a great deal less than before, but it doesn't lessen my appreciation of her as a character.

[MisterJB]

I tend to think of the Spectres more as the Gestapo of the Council than anything else, really. But maybe that's just me.
And yes, Godwin's Law.

[Ieldra]

Spitfire017 wrote...
@dtrain: "worst trust issues?" I don't know what game you played there, but I got Ash's trust back with no difficulty. Hell, she turned her gun on Udina without even a paragon/renegade check. That is how much trust she had in Shepard, even when I broke it off with her during my Miri-romance play through did she quickly turn the gun on Udina and followed Shepard. How many scenes does she have so called "trust issues..." two on Mars and the Udina coup. That's not a lot.

She's rather insistent about that Cerberus thing. More so than Kaidan if I recall things correctly. It's understandable to some degree, but none of the others on the team are that insistent. I wish I could answer like this: "I don't know what they're up to  now, but back then, we saved human colonies. So...shut up."

Edit: That line that Ash says regarding Miranda is from a HURT person who is angry (not really jealous), nothing more nothing less. It really is a natural reaction if you think about it.

Perhaps, but that doesn't make it easier to forgive. Also, for me personally (and thus, my main Shepard), it touches some core values and brings home that Ashley is Not My Girl. I've always romanced Ashley in spite of her mindset, but there is a limit.

[Ieldra]

@MisterJB:
The difference is that they don't serve a regime with genocide as a political goal. The Council system may not be the best, but there isn't a long-running political system without its history of atrocities. The Spectres are just more extreme than other examples.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
@Flemm

One gets the sense that they wrote the role, checked the thread, and immediately went into damage control mode.

Why didn't they read the thread earlier? It was pretty clear what we like about Miranda and what made her special in our eyes. Sure, everyone liked she was protective of her sister, but we almost never talked about that. It was nice, but not interesting.

[Dr. Doctor]

I really liked ME1 Ash, she was funny, caring, and a genuinely likeable person. Her mistrust of the other races pretty much boiled down to "We can get along with them but we can't always be sure that they have our best interests in mind." To me that's not too far off from Miranda's view of things, Cerberus exists to look out for human interests because the Council would just as soon throw us under the bus when trouble hits.

I can't really bring myself to romance Ash again because it just seems forced to me. Doing Carth Onasi's song and dance on Mars and doing the same thing again during the Coup only to have them suddenly disappear afterward is just strange to me. Then there's no conversations other than the date and love scene, there's not enough of the Ash I liked in ME1 to make me want to romance her in ME3.

[Aurora313]

Unfortunately, this game could have stood a year or two more in development. Or at least six months. The romances for all characters are just too rushed and fast paced.

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

Also, I implied this with my earlier post, but I'm not sure Jay W. wrote the Miranda text

The text can be worked on and tinkered with much later than the stuff that has to be recorded. Writers work on the codex and similar things very late in development (once all the text needed for VO has been completed).

The SB email after Sanctuary is a complete departure from the main direction. In a good way, of course.

Also, that one line in the romance email above (about the "nonsense the Alliance cooked up") does more to establish Miranda's point of view than anything in the first dialogue itself. Compare with "the Alliance isn't known for its flexibility." Which is much more... innocuous and non-commital. 

Also compare... "I'm owed a few favors" and that sort of thing from the dialogues with... "They didn't want to talk. But they did." from the phone app.

I agree with you Flemm. That would require them to allow the player to say/agree with anything anti-alliance though.

[Jebel Krong]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I was sort of disappointed that all we get for having an ME2 LI is a single line of dialogue. When I first took Ash to Sanctuary I thought there was going to be some recognition of the fact that I stuck with Miranda, but instead I got nothing. 

To me Ash and Kaidan stopped being Ash and Kaidan after ME1. From a characterization standpoint there's no longer any major difference between one or the other beyond romance and abilities. I've got no real reason to have the VS on the team unless I romanced them, otherwise I'm left with a character who's Zaeed minus the cool stories.

and yet BW made the VS a spectre? which is incredulous as neither were anything like the shepard/saren/vasir etc - truly exceptional people.

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I really liked ME1 Ash, she was funny, caring, and a genuinely likeable person. Her mistrust of the other races pretty much boiled down to "We can get along with them but we can't always be sure that they have our best interests in mind." To me that's not too far off from Miranda's view of things, Cerberus exists to look out for human interests because the Council would just as soon throw us under the bus when trouble hits.

she also analogised the alien races to animals, so let's not get all misty-eyed here. she was xenophobic, but becomes less so through me1, if you challenge her enough.