82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...

Off topic, but I finished my 1st DA:O playthrough (I still hate myself for getting rid of the disc so long ago). Why are the endings in that game so satisfying?

One of the best commentaries on the ME3 endings was by a DA:O developer (maybe the lead developer, though I can't recall exactly), no longer with Bioware.

Basically what he said was that ME3 overall, and especially the endings, forgets the basic fundamentals of how an RPG works, notably the idea that the player gets to shape the world and the outcome of the main story via choices made throughout the game, and the idea that the player gets to choose which relationships matter.

He elaborated on how differentiating the endings from one another, based on what the player chooses to do along the way, was a big focus during DA:O development.

So, I guess that explains why they are satisfying, and the ME3 endings are not.

Modifié par flemm, 11 juin 2012 - 03:35 .

[Vertigo_1]

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Off topic, but I finished my 1st DA:O playthrough (I still hate myself for getting rid of the disc so long ago). Why are the endings in that game so satisfying?

One of the best commentaries on the ME3 endings was by a DA:O developer (maybe the lead developer, though I can't recall exactly), no longer with Bioware.

Basically what he said was that ME3 overall, and especially the endings, forgets the basic fundamentals of how an RPG works, notably the idea that the player gets to shape the world and the outcome of the main story via choices made throughout the game, and the idea that the player gets to choose which relationships matter.

He elaborated on how differentiating the endings from one another, based on what the player chooses to do along the way, was a big focus during DA:O development.

So, I guess that explains why they are satisfying, and the ME3 endings are not.

Ah, I believe you are reffering to this:

Brent Knowles wrote...

blog.brentknowles.com/2012/03/11/mass-effect-3-and-day-one-dlc/#comment-467093338

I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point. It is a game. Not a movie. And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment. Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.  Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games... life in general is full of ****ty stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero. When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction. On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created. It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note.

He left Bioware because he felt that they weren't the same company that he had worked with before.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 11 juin 2012 - 04:18 .

[ripslip]

Someone give Brent Knowels a ton of money so he can make awesome games. That man speaks the truth.

[dtrain24]

o Ventus wrote...

I do think that Shepard being under Alliance jurisdiction (Despite being a Spectre) is completely stupid, and is a poor excuse for getting the old crew off the ship.

Definitely. And even with your quote in parenthesis, that furthers why he shouldn't be in Alliance custody.  As a Spectre, he can tell them to cram it.
I'm not sure how a hearing with the Council would have gone though. Would they have finally trusted Shepard and deemed his actions necessary?

[o Ventus]

dtrain24 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I do think that Shepard being under Alliance jurisdiction (Despite being a Spectre) is completely stupid, and is a poor excuse for getting the old crew off the ship.

Definitely. And even with your quote in parenthesis, that furthers why he shouldn't be in Alliance custody.  As a Spectre, he can tell them to cram it.
I'm not sure how a hearing with the Council would have gone though. Would they have finally trusted Shepard and deemed his actions necessary?

Probably the same as an all-Alliance hearing would have gone.

"You killed a bunch of batarians!"

"But I had to.

"But you killed a bunch of batarians! We're keeping you here on Earth!"

"But I... Wait, what? Why am I confined here?"

"Well we can't rightly keep your crew of developed and critically acclaimed characters here with you, can we?"

[Skullheart]

Someone has to tell us what is Knowles next project, he is free from the evil empire and it looks like he has real artistic integrity.

[dtrain24]

o Ventus wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I do think that Shepard being under Alliance jurisdiction (Despite being a Spectre) is completely stupid, and is a poor excuse for getting the old crew off the ship.

Definitely. And even with your quote in parenthesis, that furthers why he shouldn't be in Alliance custody.  As a Spectre, he can tell them to cram it.
I'm not sure how a hearing with the Council would have gone though. Would they have finally trusted Shepard and deemed his actions necessary?

Probably the same as an all-Alliance hearing would have gone.

"You killed a bunch of batarians!"

"But I had to.

"But you killed a bunch of batarians! We're keeping you here on Earth!"

"But I... Wait, what? Why am I confined here?"

"Well we can't rightly keep your crew of developed and critically acclaimed characters here with you, can we?"

Depends on the species....turian.

And by that, I mean the Council would probably force Liara down our throats.
Council- "Shepard, we will allow you to maintain contact with one crew member."
Shep- "In that case, I choose Miranda Law-"
Council- "Oh no, you don't get to choose. Dr. T'Soni, you'll keep an eye on Shepard, as you're the new Shadow Broker."
Liara- "Hnng!"
Shepard- Oh good God.

Modifié par dtrain24, 11 juin 2012 - 04:39 .

[Vertigo_1]

ripslip wrote...

Someone give Brent Knowels a ton of money so he can make awesome games. That man speaks the truth.

Skullheart wrote...

Someone has to tell us what is Knowles next project, he is free from the evil empire and it looks like he has real artistic integrity.

He's focusing on writing books atm, it's unlikely he will return to the gaming industry.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 11 juin 2012 - 04:38 .

[o Ventus]

dtrain24 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I do think that Shepard being under Alliance jurisdiction (Despite being a Spectre) is completely stupid, and is a poor excuse for getting the old crew off the ship.

Definitely. And even with your quote in parenthesis, that furthers why he shouldn't be in Alliance custody.  As a Spectre, he can tell them to cram it.
I'm not sure how a hearing with the Council would have gone though. Would they have finally trusted Shepard and deemed his actions necessary?

Probably the same as an all-Alliance hearing would have gone.

"You killed a bunch of batarians!"

"But I had to.

"But you killed a bunch of batarians! We're keeping you here on Earth!"

"But I... Wait, what? Why am I confined here?"

"Well we can't rightly keep your crew of developed and critically acclaimed characters here with you, can we?"

Depends on the species....turian.

You forgot about quarian, also.

[dtrain24]

o Ventus wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I do think that Shepard being under Alliance jurisdiction (Despite being a Spectre) is completely stupid, and is a poor excuse for getting the old crew off the ship.

Definitely. And even with your quote in parenthesis, that furthers why he shouldn't be in Alliance custody.  As a Spectre, he can tell them to cram it.
I'm not sure how a hearing with the Council would have gone though. Would they have finally trusted Shepard and deemed his actions necessary?

Probably the same as an all-Alliance hearing would have gone.

"You killed a bunch of batarians!"

"But I had to.

"But you killed a bunch of batarians! We're keeping you here on Earth!"

"But I... Wait, what? Why am I confined here?"

"Well we can't rightly keep your crew of developed and critically acclaimed characters here with you, can we?"

Depends on the species....turian.

You forgot about quarian, also.

Made an edit to my last post, I guess I wasn't quick enough, haha.

[Dr. Doctor]

An intro scene similar to the other two games would have been a little more fitting than what we got. For instance, TIM and Miranda's discussion at the start of ME2 reintroduces who Shepard is and what he's done.  If there's going to be a trial you could have the Admirals talking about Shepard's background, psych profile, and  major choices from the previous two games. If you're a new player you know Shepard's character before you first see him, if you've played the other games it's a way to recap the story so far. The current system of just jumping in and relying on codex entries to fill in the gaps is far less effective.

One of the major story issues with ME3 is that it prefers to tell you a story rather than showing you one. For instance in ME2 when you upgraded the Normandy you saw a portion of the ship light up on a hologram in the CIC and got a cutscene showing the upgrade in action during the SM. ME3's war assets give us a few lines of text and a number, we don't see the vast majority of them in the ending. In the Geth Consensus we see history of the Geth instead of just having Legion talk about it. Compare this to Sanctuary where the entire plot is handled via audio logs. 

As for the Extended Cut, I'm expecting something similar to Fallout: New Vegas' ending 

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 11 juin 2012 - 05:47 .

[Skullheart]

This page need some pics, just posedthis on xnalara.

to kiss or not to kiss.


Shepard's hands are huge in that model.

[o Ventus]

Skullheart wrote...

to kiss or not to kiss.


Shepard's hands are huge in that model.

I'm almost expecting them to turn into a cheesy softcore CineMax showing, with this playing in accompaniment.

Maybe he can put those large hands to good use.

[Ieldra]

dtrain24 wrote...
And by that, I mean the Council would probably force Liara down our throats.
Council- "Shepard, we will allow you to maintain contact with one crew member."
Shep- "In that case, I choose Miranda Law-"
Council- "Oh no, you don't get to choose. Dr. T'Soni, you'll keep an eye on Shepard, as you're the new Shadow Broker."
Liara- "Hnng!"
Shepard- Oh good God.

Well, so good then that we got the Alliance hearing and didn't have Liara pushed down our.......oh wait.

I want my reformed Cerberus, damn it.

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
One of the major story issues with ME3 is that it prefers to tell you a story rather than showing you one. For instance in ME2 when you upgraded the Normandy you saw a portion of the ship light up on a hologram in the CIC and got a cutscene showing the upgrade in action during the SM. ME3's war assets give us a few lines of text and a number, we don't see the vast majority of them in the ending. In the Geth Consensus we see history of the Geth instead of just having Legion talk about it. Compare this to Sanctuary where the entire plot is handled via audio logs.

There were too many war assets to show them all in the ending. But we should've seen at least the major ones and the important characters and the assets they provided. 

As for the Extended Cut, I'm expecting something similar to Fallout: New Vegas' ending

IIRC Fallout 1 established that kind of ending. I recall when I played it back in 1996 I was delighted to see those epilogue slides at the end. The first time I felt I had a real impact on the world.

ME3 might have gotten away with giving closure at the end of, say, the Rannoch mission sequence but then the ending destroyed all the closure we had achieved until then.

I guess Walters was too busy destroying our (!) ME universes to pay attention to this inconsequential detail. I have yet to see another ending in a video game where we could be relieved if nothing was said or shown about the fate of a character. "Thank God they didn't say anything about Miranda" was my second thought after "You can't be serious". OK....insert "WTF?" at the top.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

There were too many war assets to show them all in the ending. But we should've seen at least the major ones and the important characters and the assets they provided. 

If they'd made the london section more along the lines of DAO even where you can call upon the aid of key allies you have recruited to aid you during fights, coupled with more of a suicide mission squad mechanic.

[o Ventus]

wright1978 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

There were too many war assets to show them all in the ending. But we should've seen at least the major ones and the important characters and the assets they provided. 

If they'd made the london section more along the lines of DAO even where you can call upon the aid of key allies you have recruited to aid you during fights, coupled with more of a suicide mission squad mechanic.

That's what I was expecting, truth be told.

It would have been awesome being able to call in krogan shock troopers, or quarian engineers, or turian soldiers during the Horde-lite segment when defending the trucks.

[Stalker]

Episode 2 of our comic is up!

We are relying on your feedback. Let us know what you think!

[Babi_Siha]

Wow, Brent Knowles just became my idol. I'm glad he left BioWare, that company will never be the same again after falling under the rEApers control.

Going through deviantart I found this pic of Miranda's armor and I really wished she wore something like that on Horizon:

[Asakawa]

flemm wrote...

Well, that's pretty cool. I don't really know Tokyo at all. So... not sure what to look for there.

Ah, Shibuya, Japan's fashion center for sure!! Or Tokyo Tower. 

Modifié par Asakawa, 11 juin 2012 - 12:45 .

[Ieldra]

Mr Massakka wrote...
Episode 2 of our comic is up!

We are relying on your feedback. Let us know what you think!

Thanks. Nice work. Ccommented on DA and your thread.

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...

jtav wrote...

I don't think killing 300k people over a threat no one believes in is covered under Spectre immunity.

Doesn't matter. The Alliance still can't touch him. As a Spectre only the Council has power over him. Even if he had to stand trial, it should've been the Council's doing.

Spectres are supposed to keep the turians asari and salarians in power prevent wars, not start them.
It's a safe bet Shepard's Spectre status was in question after Arrival.

CrutchCricket wrote...
I don't think the intro should've been on Earth and I don't think Earth should've counted for any more than any other homeworld in the narrative. From a technical standpoint they could've made the Earth mission more elaborate as a nod to our actual world. But in-universe it should have the same significance as any other homeworld. And Shepard should've been independent in uniting the races with the Shadow Broker providing the personal resources the Council would not give.

It is only natural for Shepard, a human, to have saving Earth as his number 1 priority.
Still, it should have been an option. Earth, working with the Alliance, all of it should have been options.

And as for Arrival it should've been the Council who calls him to trial. Not only are they the only ones who actually have the authority in all cases but if we're also worried about politics and how it looks to the Batarians, I'm sure they'd be more pleased with the Council, an independent over-encompassing institution dispensing justice, rather than the human Alliance who might just put on a show and cover their own man.

The batarians weren't going to declare war on the Council, only on humanity. The Alliance needed to show humans dissaprove of Shepard's terrorism and will punish him accordingly.
If the Alliance transmits images of Shepard being executed all across the galaxy, including batarian space, there won't be any room for doubt.
Of course, the Hegemony would start a war anyway since what they wanted was an excuse, not justice, but such is politics.

[flemm]

Skullheart wrote...

This page need some pics, just posedthis on xnalara.

Nicely done

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...

Spectres are supposed to keep the turians asari and salarians in power prevent wars, not start them.
It's a safe bet Shepard's Spectre status was in question after Arrival.

Well that's a given, seeing as how he's reinstated again in 3. But that should've been made explicit instead of us having to assume. And the council stripping him of his status but failing to judge him afterward is stupid.

It is only natural for Shepard, a human, to have saving Earth as his number 1 priority.
Still, it should have been an option. Earth, working with the Alliance, all of it should have been options.

Not necessarily, given two of the backgrounds have nothing to do with Earth beyond the fact that he's human. Stopping the Reapers is Shepard's goal and that goal is necessarily big picture. Doesn't mean he can't show more emotional attachment to Earth (or rather, have the option to do so).

The batarians weren't going to declare war on the Council, only on humanity. The Alliance needed to show humans dissaprove of Shepard's terrorism and will punish him accordingly.
If the Alliance transmits images of Shepard being executed all across the galaxy, including batarian space, there won't be any room for doubt.
Of course, the Hegemony would start a war anyway since what they wanted was an excuse, not justice, but such is politics.

Given the opinion batarians hold on all humans I doubt they'd give a **** about what the majority of humans condemned. They might be more inclined to go with it if the Council is doling out the harshness. There would be no percieved bias for them to hang on. And even if no one believes the Reaper threat, no one wants a war between humans and batarians.

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
 And even if no one believes the Reaper threat, no one wants a war between humans and batarians.

Really? If I was a turian, I would relish at the tought. The humans crush the batarians thus creating more room in the galaxy while, at the same time, suffering great losses thus reducing the threat posed by one of our strongest competitors.