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[Ieldra]

Oldbones2 wrote...
The problem with Miranda and Shep's romance is that it goes nowhere.

In the beginning of ME3, you are either with her or not. During the middle you talk about your relationship. At the end you consumate it, again.


Thing is, your just treading water. Not going somewhere new. Not deepening the relationship. Not giving fans who stay loyal payoff (though they do punish fans who leave Miri).

A romance arc is a subplot. A subplot needs a beginning middle and end. A set objective. An arc.

If the plot starts with the two people together in the beginning, they either need to break up, or take a step forward in their relationship. It doesn't matter what step it is, just so long as it is a step forward. Make love for the first time, say I love you, get married or have a child, etc. Anything. Just a step forward.

I agree with this in part. I recall that in early versions of the game script, a scene was mentioned where Miranda and Shepard talk about the future. That would have been a great opportunity for players to "fix" their desired futures, in a similar way you can do it with Samantha near the end of her romance. We would've had some emotional payoff. A kiss at the end of Sanctuary would also have been nice.

A romance subplot after the romance is locked is problematic though, especially if it isn't variable enough. There would have been a high probability of offending half of Miranda's fanbase. I think of all the "typical" romance stuff that could've come up and my reaction is mostly "I don't want that".

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I agree with this in part. I recall that in early versions of the game script, a scene was mentioned where Miranda and Shepard talk about the future. That would have been a great opportunity for players to "fix" their desired futures, in a similar way you can do it with Samantha near the end of her romance. We would've had some emotional payoff. A kiss at the end of Sanctuary would also have been nice.

A romance subplot after the romance is locked is problematic though, especially if it isn't variable enough. There would have been a high probability of offending half of Miranda's fanbase. I think of all the "typical" romance stuff that could've come up and my reaction is mostly "I don't want that".

I expected some form of discussion about the future with various options, given we were carrying on a romance that had already been established in the previous game. Certainly didn't want a pregnancy or proposal or anything daft like that.

[jtav]

I'm curious if ME3 has changed anyone's mind regarding Miranda-related choices? I think the next time I run Matt through I'll have him stop her from shooting Niket because the ending has shaped him to put a premium on showing mercy and preserving lives, even the lives of weasels he'd dearly love to kill himself.

[wright1978]

Nope Niket dies at Miranda's hands just as Sidonis dies at Garrus' in most of my playthroughs and still will. In the words of the John Cusack as an assassin in Grosse Pointe Blank "If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there."

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm curious if ME3 has changed anyone's mind regarding Miranda-related choices? I think the next time I run Matt through I'll have him stop her from shooting Niket because the ending has shaped him to put a premium on showing mercy and preserving lives, even the lives of weasels he'd dearly love to kill himself.

I still won't do it. With Garrus it's different - you can talk him out of it. I may do that. But I won't grab Miranda's arm just as a fight is starting. If I can't talk her out of it - she's clear-headed enough to make her own decision. 

At least that's my current unchanged take on things. No guarantee it stays that way, but I have been rather consistent in this.

[jtav]

It doesn't have to be that choice. Niket was just an example.

[CrutchCricket]

I find it odd that you would consider that, given the emphasis on "making the choice with the info at hand" that was prevalent on here during the CB discussions.

Regardless nothing has changed my viewpoint on these decisions. Miranda is too emotionally involved to kill Niket then. Garrus has premeditated his revenge for some time is going into it "cold" and has accepted the consequences.

Garrus gets to make the shot, Miranda doesn't. I just wish there was a better way to stop her.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 13 juin 2012 - 04:54 .

[Oldbones2]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...
The problem with Miranda and Shep's romance is that it goes nowhere.

In the beginning of ME3, you are either with her or not. During the middle you talk about your relationship. At the end you consumate it, again.


Thing is, your just treading water. Not going somewhere new. Not deepening the relationship. Not giving fans who stay loyal payoff (though they do punish fans who leave Miri).

A romance arc is a subplot. A subplot needs a beginning middle and end. A set objective. An arc.

If the plot starts with the two people together in the beginning, they either need to break up, or take a step forward in their relationship. It doesn't matter what step it is, just so long as it is a step forward. Make love for the first time, say I love you, get married or have a child, etc. Anything. Just a step forward.

I agree with this in part. I recall that in early versions of the game script, a scene was mentioned where Miranda and Shepard talk about the future. That would have been a great opportunity for players to "fix" their desired futures, in a similar way you can do it with Samantha near the end of her romance. We would've had some emotional payoff. A kiss at the end of Sanctuary would also have been nice.

A romance subplot after the romance is locked is problematic though, especially if it isn't variable enough. There would have been a high probability of offending half of Miranda's fanbase. I think of all the "typical" romance stuff that could've come up and my reaction is mostly "I don't want that".

Sure, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have exchanged "I love yous".  Or someone could have asked Shepard about his ties to a former Cerberus agent and he could have defended her (or not).  Or perhaps Miranda introduces Shepard to Orianna.  Or a hundred things.

Point is there was plenty of places to go with this, but BW didn't because they consider non dextro ME2 squaddies to be the cheating option NOT a legit romance.

[jtav]

More properly, I'm revising my character concept to better reflect why I chose Synthesis. So the CB choice stays, but now I'm committed to not killing or allowing anyone to be killed except in self defense. Niket and Sidonis live.

[MisterJB]

http://aimo.devianta...ss effect&qo=30

[flemm]

Very cool, thanks JB.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Ever wonder what Miri would look like if an Anime Film involving her was made? Unfortunately that Anime Film in development right now is only about James Vega and the Collectors.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

More properly, I'm revising my character concept to better reflect why I chose Synthesis. So the CB choice stays, but now I'm committed to not killing or allowing anyone to be killed except in self defense. Niket and Sidonis live.

It's your game... but given this and what I'm seeing in your other thread, maybe you're trying too hard.

But whatever.

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

More properly, I'm revising my character concept to better reflect why I chose Synthesis. So the CB choice stays, but now I'm committed to not killing or allowing anyone to be killed except in self defense. Niket and Sidonis live.

What are you going to do only shoot any husk after it has physically hit you etc?

[Asakawa]

MisterJB wrote...


http://aimo.devianta...ss effect&qo=30

wah, cute!

[MisterJB]

Oldbones2 wrote...
 Or someone could have asked Shepard about his ties to a former Cerberus agent and he could have defended her (or not). 

Where is the option to mention Miranda!?

[Ieldra]

@OldBones2:
"I love you"s was one of the things I didn't want. I find it cheesy and overused to the point that it has become trite.

[Oldbones2]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OldBones2:
"I love you"s was one of the things I didn't want. I find it cheesy and overused to the point that it has become trite.

I'm all for different opinions.  But you don't even want I love you?

Used sparingly and in the right way its one of the most powerful set of words in the english language.

[flemm]

Oldbones2 wrote...

Used sparingly and in the right way its one of the most powerful set of words in the english language.

Personally I think it should definitely be there as an option (at least). But I could see prefering something less direct and traditional.

That's why there's a dialogue wheel

Modifié par flemm, 13 juin 2012 - 06:14 .

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OldBones2:
"I love you"s was one of the things I didn't want. I find it cheesy and overused to the point that it has become trite.

Have to agree with this, many other ways to express love to one another (with words mind you )
and it seems they were trying to make each romance different.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 13 juin 2012 - 06:21 .

[Skullheart]

Anyone is annoyed by the "paragon" line of Shepard on Chronos, the on that said something like "I don't know if I am a VI that thinks it is Commander Sheprad," specially if the same Shepard had the conversation with Miranda on the apartment.

btw, did the poster arrived at bw?

Modifié par Skullheart, 13 juin 2012 - 06:22 .

[Asakawa]

Skullheart wrote...

Anyone is annoyed by the "paragon" line of Shepard on Chronos, the on that said something like "I don't know if I am a VI that thinks it is Commander Sheprad," specially if the same Shepard had the conversation with Miranda on the apartment.

btw, did the poster arrived at bw?

June 14th was the ETA last I saw!

[Vertigo_1]

Skullheart wrote...

Anyone is annoyed by the "paragon" line of Shepard on Chronos, the on that said something like "I don't know if I am a VI that thinks it is Commander Sheprad," specially if the same Shepard had the conversation with Miranda on the apartment.

btw, did the poster arrived at bw?

Yeah I remember that...I chalk it up to other instances like the time Anderson said to Shepard:

"You know I was born in London"

"Really?"

Even though I heard him say it before on the Normandy when you could get an update from him.

As Rach said, posters are due to arrive tomorrow.

[Td1984]

jtav wrote...

More properly, I'm revising my character concept to better reflect why I chose Synthesis. So the CB choice stays, but now I'm committed to not killing or allowing anyone to be killed except in self defense. Niket and Sidonis live.

What about Maelon? Personally, I let Miranda kill Niket, Garrus kill Sidonis and Mordin kill Maelon. They're all old enough to make their own decisions.

[CrutchCricket]

Skullheart wrote...

Anyone is annoyed by the "paragon" line of Shepard on Chronos, the on that said something like "I don't know if I am a VI that thinks it is Commander Sheprad," specially if the same Shepard had the conversation with Miranda on the apartment.

Not really. One of the few times the philosophical question of "Is Shepard the same Shepard as before Lazarus" is actually addressed mentioned. It does not conflict at all with the discussion with Miranda as that is centered around free will and the right to it.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 13 juin 2012 - 06:32 .