82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Caihn]

CrutchCricket wrote...

There is no such implication. Even were I to concede this straw-grasping interpretation of the dossier, there is no evidence that she only wants a family.

There may be some things in ME3 that suggest she wants a family and a "normal" life but nowhere does it imply that is her only priority.

this

edit : this thread need pictures

Modifié par Yannkee, 19 juin 2012 - 01:50 .

[lillitheris]

jtav wrote...

If Henry had ever made his process available to the public, people would have been lining up around the block. It worries me from an ethical standpoint for OT reasons, but having smarter, healthier kids is a good thing.

…Wait, improving voluntary people is ethically worrisome to you?

[Taboo]

Miranda is not a lesser person for being infertile. That is her father's fault, not hers.

Misogyny in fiction comes from oppression of women. Rape, dominance and forced guilt are all symptoms of that.

Western Fiction is particularly good at mistreating women, as are certain European countries. Lars von Trier is notorious for this in Denmark.

Suffering of women can be misogynistic, and it is very much an issue, but thinking less of Miranda because she cannot have children is silly.

It's no different than Thane, who has a fatal disease. It's an aspect of the character.

And yes, I'm willing to give more details upon request.

[Terrorize69]

[Caihn]

^ one of my favorite fanart

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 I recall I've had a few choice words to someone who expressed that mentality in the second thread last year, basically saying that any woman who didn't care about being infertile was abnormal.

In any event, Miranda *caring* about her inferitlity, trying to cure it, etc. would be perfectly fine. There is nothing bad or stupid about that.

CrutchCricket wrote...
There is no such implication. Even were I to concede this straw-grasping interpretation of the dossier, there is no evidence that she only wants a family.

There may be some things in ME3 that suggest she wants a family and a "normal" life but nowhere does it imply that is her only priority.

Ok, but can we agree that the reason you deny that implication is that you realize it would be incredibly dumb for that to be true?

Hence why those who do tend to think the writers are implying this do not like it. And unfortunately, Miranda is not given anything to do in ME3 except save Orianna.

Modifié par flemm, 19 juin 2012 - 03:45 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
Ok, but can we agree that the reason you deny that implication is that you realize it would be incredibly dumb for that to be true?

Hence why those who do tend to think the writers are implying this do not like it. And unfortunately, Miranda is not given anything to do in ME3 except save Orianna, then walk away incomprehensibly.

I deny it because it doesn't exist and what seems incredibly dumb to me is thinking a few lines in an email or a few scenes in ME3 undo an entire game's worth of characterization. Pro tip: they don't, nor are the writers intending them to. The fact of the mattter is we got far less of Miranda than we thought we did and not just in terms of the screentime but also in terms of character. I'll once again bring up this analogy:

ME2- Miranda, larger than life and in your face, showing you exactly what she's about and what makes her tick
ME3- A cardboard cut-out in a bit of a silly pose.

The reason? Scarce resources, rushed deadlines. So they picked the part of her they thought everyone (especially new players <-and this is the important bit) would like the most, wrote in loyalty 2.0 and called it a day.

*And yes, it goes without saying that the concept of Miranda actually reduced to "family girl" is moronic.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 19 juin 2012 - 03:56 .

[wright1978]

The reason for Miranda's atrocious role/content in ME3 is to make her a tragic sympathetic figure that casual player will feel sorry for when she dies at Kai Leng's hands. Infertility BS plays into this to.

Showing her as the driven professional she should be with the role in the Cerberus arc would mean not just using her as this sacrificial lamb.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

I deny it because it doesn't exist and what seems incredibly dumb to me is thinking a few lines in an email or a few scenes in ME3 undo an entire game's worth of characterization. Pro tip: they don't, nor are the writers intending them to. The fact of the mattter is we got far less of Miranda than we thought we did and not just in terms of the screentime but also in terms of character. I'll once again bring up this analogy:

ME2- Miranda, larger than life and in your face, showing you exactly what she's about and what makes her tick
ME3- A cardboard cut-out in a bit of a silly pose.

The reason? Scarce resources, rushed deadlines. So they picked the part of her they thought everyone (especially new players <-and this is the important bit) would like the most, wrote in loyalty 2.0 and called it a day.

*And yes, it goes without saying that the concept of Miranda actually reduced to "family girl" is moronic.

So, we agree. Except insofar as you are basically saying that the ME3 characterisation should be ignored in favor of ME2. Which I basically agree with as well.

Doesn't make what's happened since any less stupid (whether it be laziness or anything else).

Modifié par flemm, 19 juin 2012 - 04:14 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
So, we agree. Except insofar as you are basically saying that the ME3 characterisation should be ignored in favor of ME2. Which I basically agree with as well.

Doesn't make what's happened since any less stupid (whether it be laziness or anything else).

No, I'm saying ME3 had no characterization, not in Miranda's case. Seeing as how it's a more elaborate version of the loyalty mission there is no new information on her character. She doesn't grow, she doesn't develop, she barely is. To derive meaning from that is folly.

Well, perhaps that's inaccurate. There is only one new piece of information we get on Miranda:  that she feels sorry for wanting the control chip. And as far as I can tell that conversation was acceptable.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
No, I'm saying ME3 had no characterization, not in Miranda's case. Seeing as how it's a more elaborate version of the loyalty mission there is no new information on her character. She doesn't grow, she doesn't develop, she barely is.

There's no real difference of opinion here.

Modifié par flemm, 19 juin 2012 - 04:29 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...

There's no real difference of opinion here.

Indeed;)

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

flemm wrote...
So, we agree. Except insofar as you are basically saying that the ME3 characterisation should be ignored in favor of ME2. Which I basically agree with as well.

Doesn't make what's happened since any less stupid (whether it be laziness or anything else).

No, I'm saying ME3 had no characterization, not in Miranda's case. Seeing as how it's a more elaborate version of the loyalty mission there is no new information on her character. She doesn't grow, she doesn't develop, she barely is. To derive meaning from that is folly.

Well, perhaps that's inaccurate. There is only one new piece of information we get on Miranda:  that she feels sorry for wanting the control chip. And as far as I can tell that conversation was acceptable.

Agreed. The fact that no new information is added except the control chip thing makes it possible to play ME3 for me. I can pretend that the professional badass is still somewhere under the shell of a person the game presents to me. If it only weren't for the damned Oriana focus. I claim temporary insanity.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

This needs to be emphasized (Boldened and italicized part). I recall I've had a few choice words to someone who expressed that mentality in the second thread last year, basically saying that any woman who didn't care about being infertile was abnormal.

Stop twisting my words.
I was refering to an infertility that is caused by an health issue (which is Miranda's case). And yes, my opinion is that I think people should care about ANY health prolems they have and try to find a solution (if there is one). I have the same opinion about men and women. So, don't you dare call me a misogynist.

If a woman want to stay infertile, it's her choice and I respect it. But if it's at the expense of her health, I don't think it's a reasonable decision.

It didn't come across that way last year, but if that's what you meant, I take your point.

[flemm]

Anyway, picture

Modifié par flemm, 19 juin 2012 - 05:09 .

[dtrain24]

We should wait on the pictures for now...because 2150 is Miranda's birth year. Paaaarty!!!

[ENorman94]

If the EC doesn't address Miranda in an way, what are we, as the miranda fans, going to do?

[Dr. Doctor]

Well...

http://gifsoup.com/i...?id=1156567&t=o

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 19 juin 2012 - 05:21 .

[jtav]

Write fanfics. Move on.

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...

jtav wrote...

If Henry had ever made his process available to the public, people would have been lining up around the block. It worries me from an ethical standpoint for OT reasons, but having smarter, healthier kids is a good thing.

…Wait, improving voluntary people is ethically worrisome to you?

Well, I think there would definitely be ethical issues involved were genetic enhancements made available to the public (or parts of the public). Our own society could be facing some of these issues before long.

To whom are these enhancements made available? At what price? It's not fair, but many things aren't. So, how do you handle this?

But one of the great things about Miranda is that the character should allow for a non-stupid exploration of some these issues. Miranda articulates precisely the problem (or part of it) in ME2. I'm paraphrasing, but basically: My father wanted these genetic enhancements to serve his own selfish purposes, whereas I wanted to employ them for the greater good.

These lines were written by Patrick Weekes, who I am quite confident is a profoundly non-stupid person. I can only hope that he lost an argument regarding this between games but has more influence now, given the debacle of ME3.

Modifié par flemm, 19 juin 2012 - 05:26 .

[enayasoul]

I was very interested in seeing how or what Miranda would be like in a relationship with Shepard. We know she isn't good at attachments. I wanted to see how she grew from that and become a more deeper character? The growth that happens with her character. How she dealt with what has become of Cerberus and how she moved past that. *They* did in a way tell us that she organizing her own group of resistance against Cerberus but we don't see her actually *doing it*.

The whole game was just frustrating, irritating, and sad. I absolutely LOVE Mass Effect but god ME3 it's just a plain downer. Where are they overcoming the incredible odds against these reapers. Why does everyone have to be killed off? Sacrificed:) If the company doesn't want to do any more freaking installments leave me with a damn good feeling then this sad crap that makes me never want to pick up the damn game again. If that's there intent of doing then they succeeded. Many parts were just insulting and asking me to buy more dlc is just a kick in the face to the loyal fan from ME1. I thought the third would be the best in the series, it clearly is not. I don't have the emotional energy do endure a second play through.

[Td1984]

Dr. Doctor pretty much summed up what my reaction would be (as well as what it would be if the Normandy isn't sufficiently explained).

Does anyone have that "birthday cake" pic that was being talked about awhile back ready for pg. 2150?

[Dr. Doctor]

@enayasoul

There's always good old ME2.

[lillitheris]

flemm wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

jtav wrote...

If Henry had ever made his process available to the public, people would have been lining up around the block. It worries me from an ethical standpoint for OT reasons, but having smarter, healthier kids is a good thing.

…Wait, improving voluntary people is ethically worrisome to you?

Well, I think there would definitely be ethical issues involved were genetic enhancements made available to the public (or parts of the public). Our own society could be facing some of these issues before long.

To whom are these enhancements made available? At what price? It's not fair, but many things aren't. So, how do you handle this?

Oh, I agree. It’s just that jtav is a synthesis proponent…

[enayasoul]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

@enayasoul

There's always good old ME2.

  Thank god we have ME2!   That are certain parts of ME1 that blow me away!    ME3 could have been a whole lot better.  I expected too much, I suppose.