82210 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
No it doesn't. Fantasy means you can make whatever bull**** you want laws of the universe. The rings being linked (with magic) was already established. There is no such link or the possibility of one in Mass Effect. It's also easier to add further bull**** in fantasy because, hey AWizardDidIt. Not so in sci-fi. You can only suspend your disbelief so much.

Literary technique is insignificant next to an ending that makes some goddamn sense.

I disagree entirely. The techniques used as well as the message a story wants to send; in thsi case, change and sacrifice; matter far more than scientifical possbility. Shooting the tube will destroy the Reapers; the geth have been tied to the Reapers by the code Legion uploaded so, it makes sense they are destroyed as well.
It's not arbitrary at all.

There would be better ways of presenting this other than shooting a tube but that is the only complaint I have about that ending.

[Taboo]

What if a high EMS Destroy only destroys the Reaper Code?

[dtrain24]

Taboo-XX wrote...

What if a high EMS Destroy only destroys the Reaper Code?

That would be a nice reward.

[Taboo]

It would certainly make the other choices look even worse.

I think Destroy should have a crutch. That's most appropriate. For Shepard to survive there must be a blow back.

But then again it isn't up to me.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 21 juin 2012 - 03:24 .

[flemm]

I think that they could keep a drawback in high EMS destroy by having it disable the relays, while making it clear that relatively little damage is done beyond that. It would still change galactic civilisation a lot. But in epilogues they could show that civilisation recovers.

It would still basically be adding a "happy" ending, a "victory" ending, but it could pass as clarification.

Modifié par flemm, 21 juin 2012 - 03:27 .

[Taboo]

When I think about it, Destroy has more favoritism than Synthesis. Strictly speaking, it has a good and bad version AND a bonus if the EMS is high.

People just feel forced into Synthesis.

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
I disagree entirely. The techniques used as well as the message a story wants to send; in thsi case, change and sacrifice; matter far more than scientifical possbility. Shooting the tube will destroy the Reapers; the geth have been tied to the Reapers by the code Legion uploaded so, it makes sense they are destroyed as well.
It's not arbitrary at all.

There would be better ways of presenting this other than shooting a tube but that is the only complaint I have about that ending.

That link is flawed because all tech is based off the Reapers hence all tech (even un-upgraded Geth) has "Reaper code". So how does the magic space beam differentiate between a synthetic AI and a mass effect toaster? It doesn't because it's ******-poor writing. Ignoring the rules of your universe to send some kind of bull**** moral "message" is again ******-poor writing.

All of the endings are ******-poor writing. The stuff you're referring to just happens to have more ****** in it.

flemm wrote...

I think that they could keep a drawback in high EMS destroy by having it disable the relays, while making it clear
that relatively little damage is done beyond that. It would still change galactic civilisation a lot. But in epilogues they could show that civilisation recovers.

It would still basically be adding a "happy" ending, a "victory" ending, but it could pass as clarification.

I was just thinking this the other day. If the relays were merely disabled (drained of energy for example) it would go some ways towards making this turd pile more acceptable. They could show that kickstarting one again is no picnic but it can be done and I think everyone would be happy. Now just lose the ****ing holokid and the bull**** logic, stick in Harbinger instead and I might even accept the rest as is.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 21 juin 2012 - 03:38 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
 If the relays were merely disabled (drained of energy for example) it would go some ways towards making this turd pile more acceptable. They could show that kickstarting one again is no picnic but it can be done and I think everyone would be happy. Now just lose the ****ing holokid and the bull**** logic, stick in Harbinger instead and I might even accept the rest as is.

Well, I have no idea what they are going to do, but that seems like basically the logical solution.

Essentially, destroy becomes the "win" ending, and control and synthesis become alternate endings for aficionados.

If that is what they are going to do, it will be interesting to see if they try to flesh out the other two equally as much, or focus mostly on destroy. Synthesis would be harder to handle in terms of epilogues and such. So, I would expect less detail there. But destroy and control would be fairly easy, with destroy being the "happier" one, because Shepard can survive (and the Reapers are gone).

Modifié par flemm, 21 juin 2012 - 03:42 .

[CrutchCricket]

Well I did mean what I said earlier- if you want a choice to be picked, be positive about it and give more incentive to do so. Destroy seems to mean unambiguous victory. But the others can have different rewards. For example I actually like (in a pure hypothetical case where I throw everything else out the window) Control because I envision Shepard transcending as a nigh-godlike Reaper shared consciousness and leaving to explore the cosmos with all the powers that entails. I'd hope they wouldn't take that from me. But emphasizing something like that, a different kind of victory might make people pick a choice for the right reasons and not just because they want to avoid unnecessary bull****.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 21 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[fiendishchicken]

Has anyone here seen this thread? This guy has some pretty sweet idea's for how the ending should work out. Some are epic and awesome, some are downright painful and disgusting to read (emotionally, not bad writing.) And they all feel like real victories or failures,

http://social.biowar...10966771-1.html

[flemm]

@ Crutch, You're right. That is conceptually better (for each to be desirable in some way).

Modifié par flemm, 21 juin 2012 - 03:49 .

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
That link is flawed because all tech is based off the Reapers hence all tech (even un-upgraded Geth) has "Reaper code". So how does the magic space beam differentiate between a synthetic AI and a mass effect toaster? It doesn't because it's ******-poor writing. Ignoring the rules of your universe to send some kind of bull**** moral "message" is again ******-poor writing.

Hardly. Some of the technology like transportation and armament are based on eezo due to the Relays but eezo is a natural element, it's ultimately different from taking a piece of a Reaper and placing it inside yourself.
Developing technology that doesn't require eezo fits with the theme of an End of a Cycle.

And any sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic. 

I was just thinking this the other day. If the relays were merely disabled (drained of energy for example) it would go some ways towards making this turd pile more acceptable. They could show that kickstarting one again is no picnic but it can be done and I think everyone would be happy.

I maintain my position that the Relays must be completely and utterly destroyed in any ending besides Control. Don't go against the spirit of an ending simply because it is a downer.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 juin 2012 - 04:20 .

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
That link is flawed because all tech is based off the Reapers hence all tech (even un-upgraded Geth) has "Reaper code". So how does the magic space beam differentiate between a synthetic AI and a mass effect toaster? It doesn't because it's ******-poor writing. Ignoring the rules of your universe to send some kind of bull**** moral "message" is again ******-poor writing.

Hardly. Some of the technology like transportation and armament are based on eezo due to the Relays but eezo is a natural element, it's ultimately different from taking a piece of a Reaper and placing it inside yourself.
Developing technology that doesn't require eezo fits with the theme of an End of a Cycle.

And any sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic. 

I was just thinking this the other day. If the relays were merely disabled (drained of energy for example) it would go some ways towards making this turd pile more acceptable. They could show that kickstarting one again is no picnic but it can be done and I think everyone would be happy.

I maintain my position that the Relays must be completely and utterly destroyed in any ending besides Control. Don't go against the spirit of an ending simply because it is a downer.

I'm for keeping the relays. I don't want a downer ending when I worked my ass off to get a perfect one.

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
Hardly. Some of the technology like transportation and armament are based on eezo due to the Relays but eezo is a natural element, it's ultimately different from taking a piece of a Reaper and placing it inside yourself.
Developing technology that doesn't require eezo fits with the theme of an End of a Cycle.

And any sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic.

If I want to use hydrogen to power my car I must use hydrogen technology which has many commonalities among devices besides the use of hydrogen. You want a closer example? Fine. Thannix cannons, taken straight from Sovereign. Never mind that you never saw them used, lore says they were on every ship. Don't sit there and tell me the space magic can differentiate between the Thannix (and the computer programs used to operate it) and the geth or EDI. And speaking of EDI, she's still the ship (i.e. plugged into every system). Destroy her and you destroy the Normandy, especially in the heat of battle or during relay travel. But the Normandy was doing just fine until the bull**** wave hit it. The whole thing is indefensible contrived nonsense and it must be purged.

Also the crucible is not "sufficiently advanced" given it took primitive organics just a few months to build it while under siege from giant killbots. Of course this is bad writing as well but at least we agree on that so no need to hammer it further.

I maintain my position that the Relays must be completely and utterly destroyed in any ending besides Control. Don't go against the spirit of an ending simply because it is a downer.

And I maintain that is also arbitrary indefensible bull****, not in line with anything, let alone "the spirt of the ending". Too bad you can't "kill an idea" because this would incite me to more violence than the holokid. I am however willing to drop this discussion if you are.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 21 juin 2012 - 04:41 .

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...
I maintain my position that the Relays must be completely and utterly destroyed in any ending besides Control. Don't go against the spirit of an ending simply because it is a downer.

While I understand your perspective, they may feel, with some... *ahem* ...justification, that it is not a time for half measures, and that the "win" ending needs to really feel like a win.

[MisterJB]

flemm wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
I maintain my position that the Relays must be completely and utterly destroyed in any ending besides Control. Don't go against the spirit of an ending simply because it is a downer.

While I understand your perspective, they may feel, with some... *ahem* ...justification, that it is not a time for half measures, and that the "win" ending needs to really feel like a win.

Unfortunately.

[Dr. Doctor]

CrutchCricket wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Indeed, arbitary. Just like the fall of Barad Dur upon the destruction of the One Ring was arbitrary and nonsen...oh wait.

Yep. Sci-fi and fantasy are totally the same thing.

Magic! In space!

For things like this we have the Mohs Scale of Sci-fi Hardness. It ranges from 1 to 6, where 1 is "space magic" and 6 is real-life science. 

The Crucible as described in the Codex entry is a giant directed energy weapon. It converts a vast amount of helium-3 into energy and then proceeds to fire it through the Mass Relay system. How it manages to hit a Reaper without just killing everything in its path isn't explained.

My theory for Control is based off of the "rewrite the heritics" option from Legion's LM. The Crucible uses the massive fusion reaction that powers it to transmit  an updated control signal to the Reaper fleet across the Relay network. Shepard becomes the new guiding intelligence of the Reapers. He's still Shepard, but he has the ability to see the universe from their perspective. Think a mix of ascended Daniel Jackson and JC Denton in Deus Ex: Invisible War. 

With Synthesis I sort of work off of the assumption that the Reapers are largely nanotech-based. Indoctrination, the Husk creation process, and the Reaper reproduction process are based around converting organic material into synthetic components. Synthesis would involve the Reapers being given the command to dissassemble themselves down to the nanites that they are constructed from.

From there the Crucible is configured to fire an EM pulse that allows the nanites to be sent across the Relay network they then proceed to integrate themselves into organic lifeforms. The end result is similar to Deus Ex's concept of  Nanotech Augmentation. As for the whole "rewriting DNA" thing, nano-scale machines made out of DNA exist in the real world, right now they're really simple mechanisims but more sophisticated machines could be possible in the future. It might be possible to introduce genetic sequences that allow the body to assemble DNA-based nanomachines on it's own (e.g. "A new DNA") but I highly doubt that's what Mac and Casey were getting at. 

[dtrain24]

On a different topic, what would you guys say the most memorable missions in the entire Mass Effect franchise are?

I would say Virmire and the Suicide Mission.

[Skullheart]

Rannoch and Suicide Mission.

Modifié par Skullheart, 21 juin 2012 - 04:55 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Two bad Miri wasn't in our Squad in ME3. Can you imagine the amount of Banter in Grissom Academy?

[CrutchCricket]

Kasumi LM. Just about the only time Infiltrator Shep actually "infiltrated" something.

[Skullheart]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Kasumi LM. Just about the only time Infiltrator Shep actually "infiltrated" something.

what about Arrival?

[CrutchCricket]

Skullheart wrote...
what about Arrival?

Good call. But I totally forgot about it so it's not really that memorable is it?

[flemm]

Well, you can't go wrong with the SM as a choice. But for me two of the most memorable moments are meeting Miranda and Mordin. Miranda's intro is awesome, and I love Mordin's explanation of why it makes sense that he is a doctor and a badass.

[Ieldra]

ENorman94 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I think I can say with a certain amount of confidence that Miranda's presence in the EC will be limited to an epilogue slide. So what kind of epilogue do you want?

One where she does something cool and
world-changing. I dont wanna see a "she settled down and lived happily
ever after."

My sentiments exactly.

And I you're right, jtav. As sad as it sounds, anything more would be a big surprise.

And this:

MisterJB wrote...
The obvious: Miranda as the sole CEO of the Lawson Industries, Miranda as The llusive Woman.
Let Miranda be hurt by Shepard's sacrifice but show that she did not crumble and continues to pursue her goals for the greater good of humanity. Let us know what happened between her and Oriana and maybe even if she ever created her offspring like Henry created her.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 juin 2012 - 07:29 .