82210 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

ThomGau wrote...

Mee too Lemon, forced death in this kind of game is silly but if it preserves ME2 Miranda, I'd take it.
BTW, how Emily Wong died? It's a shame Reegar died, he probably was the only Quarian I liked a lot.

She kamikaze'd a Reaper in a passenger shuttle.

Killed offscreen via Twitter.

[jtav]

Thing is, I get the impression that we were supposed to rejoice at Miranda's new priorities. But I don'r. Love of family is good, but it's become a cancer that devours everything else, and therefore unhealthy. Compare with Jack, who adores her found family. That love strengthens her and makes her more able to contribute.

[MisterJB]

Yes, but it was so badass.
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed!"
The quads on that woman.

Seriously, I followed the twitter event and I remember everyone being completely entranced by it. It gave Wong a much more impactful role than anything she would have gotten in ME3.

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...

Thing is, I get the impression that we were supposed to rejoice at Miranda's new priorities. But I don'r.

Me neither.
Miranda's priorities in ME2: Preserve and advance humanity, work with brilliant people, use her work to justify her existence, protect Oriana.
Miranda's priorities in ME3: Save Oriana with shutting down Sanctuary as a side effect.

[Asakawa]

MisterJB wrote...

Yes, but it was so badass.
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed!"
The quads on that woman.

Seriously, I followed the twitter event and I remember everyone being completely entranced by it. It gave Wong a much more impactful role than anything she would have gotten in ME3.

talking about the twitter event, is there a feed with all of the tweets? Twitter itself isn't the best tool to check for old tweets, it's giving a lot of errors ;/  feels like reading all that again

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Dammit I had a question up there! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and this exact attitude will keep the question wherever it is.

So,

Yeah, i was quite sad that Heegar died =/ Same thing, the quarian dude i liked the most *sob*  

Modifié par Asakawa, 22 juin 2012 - 12:58 .

[MisterJB]

https://twitter.com/#!/alliancenewsnet

[Asakawa]

MisterJB wrote...

https://twitter.com/#!/alliancenewsnet

the twitter.com address gives me a time out message when loading older tweets, go figure =/ 
but 
thanks anyway ^^' 

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Thing is, I get the impression that we were supposed to rejoice at Miranda's new priorities. But I don'r. Love of family is good, but it's become a cancer that devours everything else, and therefore unhealthy.

Either that, or it was a conscious decision to keep controversy away from Miranda in order to try and please all of her fans. But try to please everyone, and you'll end up pleasing no one - now even players who aren't Miranda fans complain at the inexplicable absence of any Cerberus connection in her story arc.

Also, using family connections to make things personal is a cheap ploy. It's an insult to players who want more than unreflected emotions from a story. There are things too big to be personal, and they are what made Miranda interesting instead of just another stereotypical Ms.Fanservice in a game.

[jtav]

You know what would have been a great way to soften her? Meet some still-alive refugees in Sanctuary while you're chasing down Cerberus/Henry/whatever. They'll be Reaper chow if you don't save them, but you have an objective. And it's Miranda "everyone is expendable" Lawson who volunteers to go back. She emerges just in time to confront Henry.

[Asakawa]

jtav wrote...

You know what would have been a great way to soften her? Meet some still-alive refugees in Sanctuary while you're chasing down Cerberus/Henry/whatever. They'll be Reaper chow if you don't save them, but you have an objective. And it's Miranda "everyone is expendable" Lawson who volunteers to go back. She emerges just in time to confront Henry.

......... that would be so cool.

ah heck, I get a mix of angry and sad every time I read you guys posting ideas that would make everything so much better *sigh*

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Thing is, I get the impression that we were supposed to rejoice at Miranda's new priorities. But I don'r. Love of family is good, but it's become a cancer that devours everything else, and therefore unhealthy.

Either that, or it was a conscious decision to keep controversy away from Miranda in order to try and please all of her fans. But try to please everyone, and you'll end up pleasing no one - now even players who aren't Miranda fans complain at the inexplicable absence of any Cerberus connection in her story arc.

Also, using family connections to make things personal is a cheap ploy. It's an insult to players who want more than unreflected emotions from a story. There are things too big to be personal, and they are what made Miranda interesting instead of just another stereotypical Ms.Fanservice in a game.

Don't think they were trying to please us. They were trying to change her into someone everyone else would feel sad about when Kai Leng killed her. The much more controversial ME2 character with her Cerberus loyalties is a lot less effective as an emotional tearjerker as she polarised people into loving and hating her.

[jtav]

I just started playing Matt in ME2. Brightly lit ship, yay! Miranda, yay! But it just reinforces the knot in my gut about the ME3 endings. I know Matt. I know how much pain he's been through. I know how much he and Miranda love each other. Damn it, why can't they just be happy together? Hasn't Matt done enough without green beams or Control rods? I just want the girl. So tempting to let the galaxy burn...

Which strikes me as nearly identical to what Matt is thinking.

[Storm03]

Asakawa wrote...


ah heck, I get a mix of angry and sad every time I read you guys posting ideas that would make everything so much better *sigh*

I totally agree

[CrutchCricket]

o Ventus wrote...

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Instead they went from legitimately ambiguous in ME2, to being the Sith Empire.

Yeah, or worse really. You can roleplay as Sith. The Reapers end up being presented with more ambiguity than Cerberus, hilariously enough. And they wipe out the entirety of galactic civilisation repeatedly.

Honestly, that's the LAST thing I wanted with the Reapers. Ambiguity. I don't think it's asking too much for a villain who's evil, just for the sake of being evil (Or for some other self-preservational motivation). Really, they either should have left the Reapers' motivations up for speculations, or went with the reasonably popular fan theory of procreation.

It's like everyone and their mom nowadays is creating a sympathetic villain (Rather, trying to create one, but monumentally flopping in the process).

Thank you! I've raged about this countless times, to no avail it seems. People need to step back and realize not everyone is a misunderstood abuse victim who was just looking for some love. Sometimes, they're just complete monsters with no redeemable features. Though the underlined is the wrong way to do it. "For the evulz" tends to throw you into cartoon villany 9 times out of 10. Rather you need to establish that their evil is the result of a completely different set of morals or a warped view in which they and only they (or those who share said view) are correct. In their minds they need to believe they are doing the right thing, or to not care what a right thing is and to do what they do because they can. It applies to the Reapers but only to a certain extent. The Reapers, being a galactic threat and presented as nigh-cosmic entities should've felt less like villains and more like forces of nature.

It's why I actually resent your comparison to the Sith. If you really understand the Sith you'll know that "for the evulz" has nothing to do with it. The Sith serve the dark side and themselves. Their goal is power. In layman's terms gaining power through the dark side means doing a bunch of **** other people see as evil. Fine but you're not doing those "evil" acts for their sake. You're doing it for the sake of power, to rule. Power is its own reward.

Also they're not being retarded about it.

Dr. Doctor wrote...
One thing that The Old Republic did really well is that it really gives a different look at the Sith. I play as an Imperial Agent and his storyline reminds me a lot of Cerberus. Imperial Intelligence is what stands between the Sith Lords and the citizens of the Empire, they direct the attention of the Dark Council and the other Lords elsewhere so that their constant plotting and infighting doesn't end up destroying their civilization. Meanwhile, they pose as being
loyal servants of the Council to avoid suspicion.

Well yeah the Sith themselves are all about power and the dark side but the people they rule are usually just ordinary joes. And I can second the similarities of Imperial Intelligence to Cerberus. On of the characters in the Old Republic Novel Fatal Alliance is an imperial spy posing as a senator's aide or something. And all throughout the book the character reflects on his situation. Though the Sith scare the **** out of him he's still disgusted by the ******-poor way the Republic's being run. His communications with his handlers makes it seem almost as if there are two Empires, one for the people, just ordinary folk trying to make it work as best they can and the Sith empire run by mystical nutjobs who can kill you with their mind.

Dr. Doctor wrote..
TOR was Drew
Karpyshyn's last game with Bioware and he has a really interesting view of the whole Sith/Jedi conflict. If anyone is interested in the Star Wars exapanded universe I recommend his books about Darth Bane.

You're the man now Doc! I would highlight this in lights. Karpyshyn's the man when it comes to the Force, particularly the differences between light and dark. The Bane trilogy is a must read for anyone interested in Jedi/Sith. Revan has a nice bit about Jedi sacrifice vs Sith sacrifice as well.

All: I realize we've moved on but I couldn't help throwing in my two cents on these topics. Sorry I missed them.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 22 juin 2012 - 03:41 .

[CrutchCricket]

On Miranda's "direction": Yes it's cheap and unsatisfying but to a rushed developer the Oriana plot has the highest chance of eliciting emotion from players and getting them to empathize with the character. Even more importantly it makes her instantly accessible to new players who aren't going to know all the Cerberus stuff. Come to think of it, I imagine the control chip convo would've went right over their heads (but that's romance specific no?)

When time and resources are that limited you go for the cheapest available solution and move on. It sucks, but it's not arbitrary.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 22 juin 2012 - 03:49 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Come to think of it, I imagine the control chip convo would've went right over their heads (but that's romance specific no?)

No. And Cerberus is mentioned by Miranda several times, including the first dialogue, just not in a substantive way. So... I don't think the new player excuse really holds much weight. I think it's just badly written and conceptually flawed.

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
No. And Cerberus is mentioned by Miranda several times, including the first dialogue, just not in a substantive way. So... I don't think the new player excuse really holds much weight. I think it's just badly written and conceptually flawed.

Really? I would think an invite to her apartment ( or an apartment she happened to be using) would be a romance only occurance.

And what does she say about Cerberus really? It can't be that much since one of our biggest complaints is she has no reflection on it. If it only amounts to "yeah I used to work for them" then the new player explanation holds. I used to work for them but they're obviously doucebags so I left- yeah any simpleton would get that.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 22 juin 2012 - 04:14 .

[Rafficus III]

Last night I hit a point in campaign where I sat my controller down, paused, and reflected. I remembered her involvement in ME2 and how pivotal she was, looked at the drifter type of character she had become in this game (soon here, gone all too soon), and then no matter how invested you may be with her, Liara will be in the cutscene and not her. I don't believe I will finish this playthrough with her until a bit more meat is given to the ME2 romances or even stage time they were robbed of.

Modifié par hornedfrog87, 22 juin 2012 - 04:15 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Really? I would think an invite to her appartment ( or an appartment she happened to be using) would be a romance only occurance.

Nope. The romance version is different, but not the control chip dialogue.

Re: new players, they can understand all kinds of things. So, irrelevant. If that was any part of the reason, it was a bad decision.

Modifié par flemm, 22 juin 2012 - 04:21 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
Re: new players, they can understand all kinds of things. So, irrelevant. If that was any part of the reason, it was a bad decision. Period.

Well you know Bioware. Even veteran Viewers are Morons.

And what isn't a bad decision about how Miranda was handled? It started with "we're not going to do a lot with Miranda" and went crashing downhill from there.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
And what isn't a bad decision about how Miranda was handled? It started with "we're not going to do a lot with Miranda" and went crashing downhill from there.

Agreed

[Asakawa]

i'm getting too depressed here, haha
so on to some miranda image related stuff

drawing is finally clean =D

[Td1984]

 Rach, go here. This has the tweets she put out.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_News_Network/SolComms

Modifié par Td1984, 22 juin 2012 - 04:54 .

[Asakawa]

Td1984 wrote...

 Rach, go here. This has the tweets she put out.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_News_Network/SolComms

Thanks a lot!! Depending of mobile access for everything is making me crazy. Nothing seems to work right >< I'm not even starting about BSN. 

[Asakawa]

And so bioware changes their policy:

"Any discussion of Story related content, including the Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut DLC content, must be done in the appropriate Storyline Discussion forum. Threads discussing it outside of Story Discussion forums will be closed or moved to the correct forum. Repeated attempts to discuss Story content outside the Storyline Discussion forums will result in banning."

i wonder if that will apply to the endings discussion from last night?