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[Babi_Siha]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ugh. The Illusive Man.

He shouldn't be there.

Well, the title is Illusive's Angels 

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
She becomes a better person in the Paragon Romance. She becomes softer and more relaxed and she smiles more.

None of which makes her a better person, objectively, though perhaps easier for you or your Shep to relate to.

As a general rule, some fans tend to relate more to her badass, determined, ruthless side, and others to the softer side that comes out if you make certain choices (usually paragon).

That is a psychological change. We discussed this remember? People noticing a change in behavior is key here. Kasumi notices, I notice. I'm sure Jacob notices. Shepard even being there causes her to quit Cerberus. That's a change, and that happens whether you romance her or not.

People are frustrated because that side came out in ME3 because whoever wrote her decided it was going to be that way.

You can be a strong determined woman and still have a soft side. I'm unsure why this is so difficult for people to grasp.

You don't like that she becomes more open?

[jtav]

She's also quite playful and flirty in the Renegade kiss scene. So I'd say she's happy. Where I think Paragon Shepard can help her is to challenge her caution, personally and professionally. It's okay to put herself out there emotionally. Yes, they can afford to send Kasumi back. And so on. Ideally, she should also temper his recklessness. Working together as a unit, balancing each other.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
You don't like that she becomes more open?

You are missing my point. I was merely stating a simple reality, which is that fans relate to the character in different ways.

[Taboo]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Not to sound "Perverted" (And I am NOT intending to degrade Miri!!!!), but Miri forever has an Amazing Backside (That is NOT The ONLY Reason why I am a Mirimancer/Mirimaniac!!!!).

The scenery reminds me of Star Trek.

There's nothing wrong with admiring how someone looks. It's only an issue when it's the ONLY reason you're after someone.

No one here will say she has a bad backside.

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

She's also quite playful and flirty in the Renegade kiss scene. So I'd say she's happy. Where I think Paragon Shepard can help her is to challenge her caution, personally and professionally. It's okay to put herself out there emotionally. Yes, they can afford to send Kasumi back. And so on. Ideally, she should also temper his recklessness. Working together as a unit, balancing each other.

That's what a good relationship does. It tempers each others flaws an brings out the best in one another. I saw a post you made about her being the right person for Shepard. I feel that is quite correct.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
She becomes a better person in the Paragon Romance. She becomes softer and more relaxed and she smiles more.

None of which makes her a better person, objectively, though perhaps easier for you or your Shep to relate to.

As a general rule, some fans tend to relate more to her badass, determined, ruthless side, and others to the softer side that comes out if you make certain choices (usually paragon).

That is a psychological change. We discussed this remember? People noticing a change in behavior is key here. Kasumi notices, I notice. I'm sure Jacob notices. Shepard even being there causes her to quit Cerberus. That's a change, and that happens whether you romance her or not.

People are frustrated because that side came out in ME3 because whoever wrote her decided it was going to be that way.

You can be a strong determined woman and still have a soft side. I'm unsure why this is so difficult for people to grasp.

You don't like that she becomes more open?

We've been over that countless times in the past. Many of us like that she's somewhat reserved and would like the openness to be restricted to private conversations. Most specifically, I don't want that sentimentality influences her professional decisions. 

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

That's what a good relationship does. It tempers each others flaws an brings out the best in one another. I saw a post you made about her being the right person for Shepard. I feel that is quite correct.

I agree with that. I also agree with your point earlier that their is a certain reciprocity in the relationship, whereby Miranda recreates Shepard, and Shepard completes Miranda's creation, in a sense.

However, I have observed that, for some fans, the primary attraction of the character is the renegade, badass operative side, and the softer side is nice, but not the primary attraction. Whereas, for others, the emotional development within the romance is the main attraction.

It's no mystery why this is so, given how Miranda's character works in ME2.

Modifié par flemm, 23 juin 2012 - 08:31 .

[Taboo]

The sentimentality doesn't affect her personal decisions. The Miranda I saw got the job done regardless of what type of relationship she's in. Bollocks Ieldra.

But you don't do the Paragon choices though, so I'd assume you have no idea I'm talking about.

I have no idea what you're talking about either.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I have no idea what you're talking about either.

You're new here

Taboo-XX wrote...
The sentimentality doesn't affect her personal decisions. The Miranda I saw got the job done regardless of what type of relationship she's in.

Agreed

Modifié par flemm, 23 juin 2012 - 08:35 .

[Taboo]

This is what makes her more intresting than say...ahem...Tali, who is seemingly prepping her loins everytime Shepard enters the room.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Wow. For some reason I just imagined a Picture with Miri in her White Outfit, but with the Symbol representing The United Federation of Planets/Starfleet. It came out of nowhere. >.>

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...


We've been over that countless times in the past. Many of us like that she's somewhat reserved and would like the openness to be restricted to private conversations. Most specifically, I don't want that sentimentality influences her professional decisions. 

Devil's advocate? I don;t want her to be overly emotional, but sometimes it seems her calculations are skewed. The binary nature of the choices in-game harms her because someone must advocate the red option. If she could learn things like interrogating the talking, mysteriously helpful geth who knows Shepard's name is worth the risk or to spare a team member who isn't a good fighter, I'd consider that positive. It's when it becomes "all I care about is my family" that I have trouble.

[Taboo]

Eh, one might easily understand that since the possibility that everyone is going to die she becomes a little more obsessed. But yes, I will admit her inability to join Shepard was silly.

We DO have a Shadow Broker on the Ship.

We need DLC of some sort to flesh this out.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

This is what makes her more intresting than say...ahem...Tali, who is seemingly prepping her loins everytime Shepard enters the room.

Few would dispute that Miranda's independance, initial hostility even, and gradual acceptance of Shepard, etc. are a big part of her appeal.

Basically, Miranda in ME2 has to do three things:

1) Antagonize the player, moreso even than TIM.
2) Sell some people on the idea that Cerberus is not the purely evil organisation it is said to be.
3) Inspire love on the part of some players who never accept Cerberus at all.

She does all three really well, so she ends up being a hate/love/love character, essentially.

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

However, I have observed that, for some fans, the primary attraction of the character is the renegade, badass operative side, and the softer side is nice, but not the primary attraction. Whereas, for others, the emotional development within the romance is the main attraction.

Why people should prefer one side of the character ?
Personally (and I'm not the only one), I like both side of her character. I choose the paragon romance because I hate Shepard's behavior during the renegade one, it doesn't mean that Miranda emotional side is my main attraction.
I can't say one aspect is more important (or likable) than the other. This complex personality is what makes the character so interesting.

edit :
makes me think of a wallpaper I made one day

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 juin 2012 - 08:47 .

[flemm]

Yannkee wrote...

Why people should prefer one side of the character ?
Personally (and I'm not the only one), I like both side of her character. I choose the paragon romance because I hate Shepard's behavior during the renegade one, it doesn't mean that Miranda emotional side is my main attraction.
I can't say one aspect is more important (or likable) than the other. This complex personality is what makes the character so interesting.

I agree, and that's sort of what I'm getting at. You just made the point more directly than I was making it.

Modifié par flemm, 23 juin 2012 - 08:55 .

[dtrain24]

Babi_Siha wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

RamilVenoard wrote...

But I can totally see Miri going for a Paragon Shep. She has this tough exterior she's put on to survive in the world of espionage, but she's actually a woman who is incredibly insecure and in need of someone to teach her to love herself.

I say this from the point of view of a depressive (in RL) and I can tell her character was written by someone who suffered from non-serious bouts of depression on a regular basis, since all the signs are there in her dialogue. Just seems to click for me.

But a paragon Shepard happens to be completely against Cerberus and 100% pro Alliance. Picking always the paragon response won't do him much help.There's no problem in him being a paragon when it comes to Miranda and their personal dialogues, but when it comes to business I can't imagine Miranda appreciating his anti-Cerberus views and I imagine Miranda thinking a pro Alliance Shepard is a naive idiot.

I agree with both of you.
I prefer Paragon Shepard for the romance because Renegade makes it feel like a fling. Paragon romance Shep is completely believable and the way he thaws Miranda out is perfect.
But I agree with Babi's last post. Which is why if I play canon, I play as a Paragade. I usually make the moral decision, but my Shepard prefers Cerberus. He feels they were right in ME2 and the Alliance were bumbling idiots when it came to the colonies.  Cerberus brought him back to life and treated him pretty well, and had a good cause at the time. The least Shepard could do is support their cause.

Playing paragon is nice and sweet as long as you don't pick the rape face option of "Who needs love?". But in some cases, the renegade option is much better, like the kiss and when they hug.

The rape face is funny but I don't like selecting it. I wish there was a Paragon kiss...
The Renegade one sort of takes away from the emotional feel and seriousness of the relationship. I romance Miranda paragon in that scene, but I do "neutral" for the last scene.

Modifié par dtrain24, 23 juin 2012 - 08:58 .

[Caihn]

dtrain24 wrote...
 I wish there was a Paragon kiss...

Me too :/
And we can't even have one in ME3. <_<

[Taboo]

You do get kisses.

You get a kiss in ME3 from her when you first meet when you continue the relationship.

Unless you want to imagine that no kissing happened in the apartment either, there's that too.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 23 juin 2012 - 08:59 .

[Caihn]

There is no on screen kisses.
And during the first meet, it's a kiss on the cheek not a real kiss (completely ridiculous considering it's been more than 6 months they haven't seen each other)

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 juin 2012 - 09:02 .

[dtrain24]

Yannkee wrote...

dtrain24 wrote...
 I wish there was a Paragon kiss...

Me too :/
And we can't even have one in ME3. <_<

How many Paragon kisses did Liara get?

[Caihn]

I don't want to know.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Face it. BioWare doesn't like Miri as much as they do for Liara. I wonder if BioWare believes that we should consider ourselves lucky that they gave us what we have with Miri already?

I mean, Liara is a good Character. She is My FemShep's Love Interest, but Miri is STILL My Love Interest nonetheless. There should have been BETTER Variations.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 23 juin 2012 - 09:05 .