82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

Possibly. Again, it's not that I disagree with you. I agree with you

I know.
I just think ther are no valid justifications for Bioware concerning Miranda's treatment in ME3.

[flemm]

Skullheart wrote...

bw, what the hell were you thinking?

Well, keep in mind that they seem to have convinced themselves that having more than two dialogue options (i.e. a neutral choice) did not make sense in a war story. Ummm... lol?

I imagine that the relatively homogenous squad might be justified in a similar manner (it's a war! no arguments!). Also I could see somebody making the case on the dev side that it would be unrealistic for the Alliance military to allow this important ex-Cerberus operative aboard the ship (people do make that argument).

Does that mean it was the right decision? Nope. Not at all.

But we already know they made a bad decision by the very fact that Miranda is not there

Modifié par flemm, 24 juin 2012 - 12:04 .

[jtav]

Well, here's the thing. With the exception of Javik and Liara, there's almost no tension between squad members and everyone is basically nice and respectable. Miranda uosets the balance. For the better, but they may not have wanted to go there. And she would have made the team half human, so that's another consideration.

As for her role in general, somebody really wanted her to be the squad member who dies tragically while everyone mourns. It's not a bad role from a dramatic standpoint and I'd probably have done something similar. Have her go there to stop Cerberus and confront her father (and for God's sake, let it be a confrontation). She dies (or almost dies) fighting Kai Leng who mocks her. Miranda is defiant to the last. She's going up against impossible odds precisely because she believes in Cerberus--and this is not Cerberus. Mood of the death is bittersweet because she knows she's handed you victory.

[Lawrence0294]

A little picture to brighten the mood

Modifié par kratos0294, 24 juin 2012 - 12:17 .

[flemm]

kratos0294 wrote...

A little picture to brighten the mood

*sigh*

Nice, thanks

Modifié par flemm, 24 juin 2012 - 12:18 .

[Caihn]

kratos0294 wrote...

A little picture to brighten the mood

Yeah thank you.

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2012 - 12:22 .

[LanceSolous13]

Actually, I'm ok with her not being a Squaddie. Maybe a Mission spesific squad member, but not for the entire game. On a side note, expecting them to rewrite several portions of the game for Miri to be a Squaddie is really getting your hopes up.

I'm fine with the direction they took with her, Ori is all she has left besides Shep if you romanced her, but she knows exactly what Shep is up to and where he is. Ori has gone completely off the radar and with entire planets dropping like flies, Her prioritizing Ori before anything else makes sense, because Miri is also all that Ori has left too. What I would have liked to have seen was simply more interaction with her.

As I think I said here, Taking her onto the Normandy after Sanctuary would be a great idea which would give us a chance to talk to Oriana for once and have a proper Romantic Night in the Cabin. It slightly broke my heart seeing my Shep alone with out anyone to comfort him. Hell, if we can't bring Miri on board, why not have Shep call her up for some comfort?

Heck, any ME2 Romance could benefit from that. Thane fans could even just look at a picture of him and just say a few words aloud or read a small passage from the prayer book.

[flemm]

LanceSolous13 wrote...
Heck, any ME2 Romance could benefit from that. Thane fans could even just look at a picture of him and just say a few words aloud or read a small passage from the prayer book.

I agree that some additions like this would be nice

[fiendishchicken]

jtav wrote...

Well, here's the thing. With the exception of Javik and Liara, there's almost no tension between squad members and everyone is basically nice and respectable. Miranda uosets the balance. For the better, but they may not have wanted to go there. And she would have made the team half human, so that's another consideration.

As for her role in general, somebody really wanted her to be the squad member who dies tragically while everyone mourns. It's not a bad role from a dramatic standpoint and I'd probably have done something similar. Have her go there to stop Cerberus and confront her father (and for God's sake, let it be a confrontation). She dies (or almost dies) fighting Kai Leng who mocks her. Miranda is defiant to the last. She's going up against impossible odds precisely because she believes in Cerberus--and this is not Cerberus. Mood of the death is bittersweet because she knows she's handed you victory.

I agree with all of this, but I believe the option to keep her alive should still remain, and make it a meaningful romance! 

[MisterJB]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I'm fine with the direction they took with her, Ori is all she has left besides Shep if you romanced her, but she knows exactly what Shep is up to and where he is. Ori has gone completely off the radar and with entire planets dropping like flies, Her prioritizing Ori before anything else makes sense, because Miri is also all that Ori has left too. What I would have liked to have seen was simply more interaction with her.

She had objectives apart from Shepard and Oriana before ME3 and I would have prefered than hadn't changed.
Oriana being a priority might be in character but it's also uninteresting. It's not a complex issue and it has already been dealt with.

[Caihn]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Actually, I'm ok with her not being a Squaddie. Maybe a Mission spesific squad member, but not for the entire game. On a side note, expecting them to rewrite several portions of the game for Miri to be a Squaddie is really getting your hopes up.

I don't think anyone here expect Bioware to rewrite a portion of the game to include Miranda as a squadmate. We are just thinking of what could have been a good ME3 game.
And for me it means Miranda as a squadmate for a long period (not the entire game, but long enough to show all aspects of her character, more conversations, and maybe some character development).

I'm fine with the direction they took with her, Ori is all she has left besides Shep if you romanced her, but she knows exactly what Shep is up to and where he is. Ori has gone completely off the radar and with entire planets dropping like flies, Her prioritizing Ori before anything else makes sense, because Miri is also all that Ori has left too. What I would have liked to have seen was simply more interaction with her.

I also think her concern for her sister is justified, but she needs to be involved in more than a rescue. Cerberus and more importantly the reapers threat should also be a priority for her.
And I think the best way for her to manage to deal with all these problems, is to be part of Shepard's team once again. So she can assist Shepard to fight Cerberus and the Reapers, but also find informations about her sister more easely (SB and Alliance ressources).

As I think I said here, Taking her onto the Normandy after Sanctuary would be a great idea which would give us a chance to talk to Oriana for once and have a proper Romantic Night in the Cabin. It slightly broke my heart seeing my Shep alone with out anyone to comfort him. Hell, if we can't bring Miri on board, why not have Shep call her up for some comfort?

Heck, any ME2 Romance could benefit from that. Thane fans could even just look at a picture of him and just say a few words aloud or read a small passage from the prayer book.

Yeah it would be great. 

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2012 - 12:37 .

[ChrisRudson]

kratos0294 wrote...

A little picture to brighten the mood

Thanks for this. This made my morning

Modifié par ChrisRudson, 24 juin 2012 - 12:34 .

[lillitheris]

Personal conflicts on a wartime ship make for a good narrative, but not a great reality. That’s why I left Kaidan on the Citadel…I wouldn’t be able to count on him when the going got tough, he’d shown it twice already.

(Please feel free to disagree, I’m just illustrating a point, not arguing whether or not it’s the right thing to do.)

[LanceSolous13]

Actually, I didn't mind that Miranda wasn't focused on the issue of the Reapers. Everyone in the Galexy is focused on them and not many on Cerberus. She's much more useful with a focus on Cerberus and her line at Sancuary about following a trail from Cerberus to her father suggested to me that she was focused on Cerberus as much as Oriana, just that Cerberus didn't come up in conversation. Not much that she could have added their either. Grissom Academy? There really wasn't anything involved in that mission that wasn't explained in the Mission Summary.

[jtav]

I focused so much on the death because she's one of those characters who makes for a good climactic death. It's the way her death was handled--the suggestion that she was this tragic figure that wanted only to be loved. I would have made her live an die how she always saw herself: humanity's protector. And I would have her die knowing that's what she was and dying triumphant.

I, er, have an amazingly high tolerance for favorite characters dying.

[Caihn]

lillitheris wrote...

Personal conflicts on a wartime ship make for a good narrative, but not a great reality. That’s why I left Kaidan on the Citadel…I wouldn’t be able to count on him when the going got tough, he’d shown it twice already.

(Please feel free to disagree, I’m just illustrating a point, not arguing whether or not it’s the right thing to do.)

Except that in Miranda's case you refuse to have on board one of the best asset to take down Cerberus. Besides, Miranda is the perfect example of professionalism, and would work for the interest of the mission not to please everyone on board. I think it's this kind of people Shepard really needs.

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2012 - 01:06 .

[hot_heart]

lillitheris wrote...
Personal conflicts on a wartime ship make for a good narrative, but not a great reality.

Agreed. I actually wrote that Miranda deliberately distanced herself so as not to stir things up. Seemed in-character to me at least.

You may have read and left feedback on that excerpt in your FFWS thread actually.

Modifié par hot_heart, 24 juin 2012 - 12:46 .

[Caihn]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Actually, I didn't mind that Miranda wasn't focused on the issue of the Reapers. Everyone in the Galexy is focused on them and not many on Cerberus. She's much more useful with a focus on Cerberus and her line at Sancuary about following a trail from Cerberus to her father suggested to me that she was focused on Cerberus as much as Oriana, just that Cerberus didn't come up in conversation. Not much that she could have added their either. Grissom Academy? There really wasn't anything involved in that mission that wasn't explained in the Mission Summary.

Well, I'm not sure a lot of people see Miranda's role like you do. For me she was initially going to rescue her sister, and then when she discovered the facility she decided to do something. Miranda has never been involved in something bigger than the recue of her sister until she discovers Sanctuary.

And Miranda would be also very useful against the reapers, I'm against restricting her role to Cerberus. She deserves to have a character development like the other characters.

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2012 - 01:12 .

[Caihn]

The best wake up Shepard could dream of :

[LanceSolous13]

Yannkee wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Actually, I didn't mind that Miranda wasn't focused on the issue of the Reapers. Everyone in the Galexy is focused on them and not many on Cerberus. She's much more useful with a focus on Cerberus and her line at Sancuary about following a trail from Cerberus to her father suggested to me that she was focused on Cerberus as much as Oriana, just that Cerberus didn't come up in conversation. Not much that she could have added their either. Grissom Academy? There really wasn't anything involved in that mission that wasn't explained in the Mission Summary.

Well, I'm not sure a lot of people see Miranda's role like you do. For me she was initially going to rescue her sister, and then when she discovered the facility she decided to do something. Miranda has never been involved in something bigger than the recue of her sister until she discovers Sanctuary.

And Miranda would be also very useful against the reapers, I'm against restricting her role to Cerberus. She deserves to have a character development like the other characters.

Oh. I didn't mean to suggest she knew about Sanctuary or something. She might have been following Cerberus' exploits to a certain extent since she does know they could be tied into her sister and her father somehow so looking into Cerberus isn't too much of a leap. She might have heard something about a few of their Cerberus operations such as Grissom Academy or the Jacob Side Mission, but nothing that Shep didn't already know from Hacket's Emails so she never brought it up. Unless I'm horribly miss-interpreting what you're saying.

By the way, Is it just me or is she wearing make-up at Sanctuary? Was she wearing makeup on the Citadel? Continuing that, Is it just me or did she get a boob and ass job between games? I can't tell if they are actually bigger or if its just the fact they're forcing ass-shots down your throat every time she appears.

Modifié par LanceSolous13, 24 juin 2012 - 01:39 .

[Caihn]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Oh. I didn't mean to suggest she knew about Sanctuary or something. She might have been following Cerberus' exploits to a certain extent since she does know they could be tied into her sister and her father somehow so looking into Cerberus isn't too much of a leap. She might have heard something about a few of their Cerberus operations such as Grissom Academy or the Jacob Side Mission, but nothing that Shep didn't already know from Hacket's Emails so she never brought it up. Unless I'm horribly miss-interpreting what you're saying.

What I wanted to say is that her intention has never been to do something else than rescuing her sister until she find out what is Sanctuary.
"Once I saw what this place really was, I couldn't just walk away"
She's neither focused on Cerberus neither on the Reapers (I wanted both), only her sister.

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2012 - 01:49 .

[LanceSolous13]

Yannkee wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Oh. I didn't mean to suggest she knew about Sanctuary or something. She might have been following Cerberus' exploits to a certain extent since she does know they could be tied into her sister and her father somehow so looking into Cerberus isn't too much of a leap. She might have heard something about a few of their Cerberus operations such as Grissom Academy or the Jacob Side Mission, but nothing that Shep didn't already know from Hacket's Emails so she never brought it up. Unless I'm horribly miss-interpreting what you're saying.

What I wanted to say is that her intention has never been to do something else than rescuing her sister until she find out what is Sanctuary.
"Once I saw what this place really was, I couldn't just walk away"
She's neither focused on Cerberus neither on the Reapers (I wanted both), only her sister.

Oh. I agree with that. Likely too since she probably had no idea Shep would ever go there and thus, the Issue would have have been fixed otherwise. The fact that Ori is there is a bonus.

Speaking of the 'Lash' that was mentioned earlier, I've always wondered about the Perversion Potential of Biotics. Espcially after someone took my stratedgy for playing a Vanguard as a giant inuendo. "I Charge them hard until I pop a Thermal Clip and then I Nova." X_X In the words of Garrus, "That metaphor went somewhere unfortunate."

[RamilVenoard]

The fact that she is focused on Ori is not in any way shape or form a problem. It's her aloofness when talking with Shep, with whom I might add she is supposedly in love. They could have easily solved this problem by introducing Miri as a temporary squad member joining Shep to take down TIM's main base and then accompanying him to earth. I think the last mission should have been fought out with your LI and one squad mate of choice. It just makes more narrative sense than having her a hundred miles away communicating by holocall. It's just too forced to have a last conversation that way.

[Taboo]

I need to be in here more. The propensity for bull**** is so high right now it's not even funny. Stay AWAY from the Story section of the forum if you want to avoid a conflict.

Let's talk about Miranda. Imagine that!

[MisterJB]

I disagree entirely. Her focus on Oriana to the exclusion of everything else is why ME3 was ruined from the very beginning.
It's true, Kai Leng doesn't kill Miranda. Oriana does and we should all hate her for it. Quite frankly, I don't know why Henry wants her back but he can have her.