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[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

The presentation might not be the best but I still find it to be immensely superior to "These are the bad guys. Kill them."

I do prefer it, speaking theoretically. But... presentation is important. It's wierd that ME3 had a good complex antagonist already developed for use (Cerberus) that it sucked most of the life out of. While then trying to make the Reapers into something more complex... But waiting until the last minute to really do it.

So... meh. I think there's a reason why the best parts of the game have nothing much to do with either Cerberus or the Reapers. Neither were handled all that well.

Modifié par flemm, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:17 .

[Dr. Doctor]

 I sort of think they went a little overboard with the Reapers backstory. Sovereign was impressive because it was this eldritch abomination from dark space that we knew nothing about, finding out how Reapers reproduce in ME2 added to the effect.  Describing what the Reaper's motivations were and their origins were was interesting, and the endings present some interesting topics for discussion but they were never the most interesting part of the ME universe IMO. 

[o Ventus]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

 I sort of think they went a little overboard with the Reapers backstory. Sovereign was impressive because it was this eldritch abomination from dark space that we knew nothing about, finding out how Reapers reproduce in ME2 added to the effect.  Describing what the Reaper's motivations were and their origins were was interesting, and the endings present some interesting topics for discussion but they were never the most interesting part of the ME universe IMO. 

Honestly, I was half hoping they would have kept the Reapers motivation for the harvest within the bounds of procreation. They do it because it's their way of breeding, that's it. It may be a bit forced in some respects, but it's much, MUCH less contrived than the tech singularity nonsense the Catalyst feeds us now (With his self contradictions and logically fallacious arguments). This is just my opinion, but it also wouldn't diminish the Reapers enigmatic persona nearly as much as the current situation.

Modifié par o Ventus, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:01 .

[Jebel Krong]

o Ventus wrote...

The shock and trauma of Harbinger's blast alone ('cause lasers asplode now, amirite?)

i agree with everything you said about synthesis - totally, completely ridiculous space-magic belonging in dragon age, not science fiction, however reapers do not fire "lasers", despite the apparent in-game appearance - they fire solid projectiles suspended in magnetic fields, the thanix canon was developed from it for the normandy in me2.

[o Ventus]

Jebel Krong wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

The shock and trauma of Harbinger's blast alone ('cause lasers asplode now, amirite?)

i agree with everything you said about synthesis - totally, completely ridiculous space-magic belonging in dragon age, not science fiction, however reapers do not fire "lasers", despite the apparent in-game appearance - they fire solid projectiles suspended in magnetic fields, the thanix canon was developed from it for the normandy in me2.

I know. That was a joke quote from one of smudboy's videos.

And it isn't a solid projectile, it's liquefied molten metal.

Modifié par o Ventus, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:15 .

[Jebel Krong]

o Ventus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

The shock and trauma of Harbinger's blast alone ('cause lasers asplode now, amirite?)

i agree with everything you said about synthesis - totally, completely ridiculous space-magic belonging in dragon age, not science fiction, however reapers do not fire "lasers", despite the apparent in-game appearance - they fire solid projectiles suspended in magnetic fields, the thanix canon was developed from it for the normandy in me2.

I know. That was a joke quote from one of smudboy's videos.

And it isn't a solid projectile, it's liquefied molten metal.

and apparently the geth are the first to do something on a hand-held scale, using the same principles, with the javelin.

[hot_heart]

dtrain24 wrote...
I didn't get reinstated in my Renegon run. But Shepard still declares himself to be a Spectre...

Haha. Nice. And thanks for letting me know!

[o Ventus]

Jebel Krong wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

The shock and trauma of Harbinger's blast alone ('cause lasers asplode now, amirite?)

i agree with everything you said about synthesis - totally, completely ridiculous space-magic belonging in dragon age, not science fiction, however reapers do not fire "lasers", despite the apparent in-game appearance - they fire solid projectiles suspended in magnetic fields, the thanix canon was developed from it for the normandy in me2.

I know. That was a joke quote from one of smudboy's videos.

And it isn't a solid projectile, it's liquefied molten metal.

and apparently the geth are the first to do something on a hand-held scale, using the same principles, with the javelin.

The Javelin is somewhat different. The basic principle is the same (that is, liquid substance propelled out at high speeds), but the operation and intent is actually very different. The Thanix cannon fires the stream of metal at a relativistic speed. The heat bypasses barriers and the stream bores through armor. If it can't bore through the armor, it solidifies on top, effectively burying the target under the metal. The Javelin pulls a small amount of ferrofluid from a reservoir and magnetically launches it out at very high speeds (albeit not relativistic). It's sort of similar to a super high-powered water jet.

I would say the Javelin is hotter than the Thanix cannon, but the heat would probably diminish faster from a Javelin round, due to the miniscule mass and size of the projectile being fired, compared to the constant stream of the Thanix cannon.

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
I sort of think they went a little overboard with the Reapers backstory. Sovereign was impressive because it was this eldritch abomination from dark space that we knew nothing about, finding out how Reapers reproduce in ME2 added to the effect.  Describing what the Reaper's motivations were and their origins were was interesting, and the endings present some interesting topics for discussion but they were never the most interesting part of the ME universe IMO. 

I always wanted the Reapers demystified, and "Reaperduction" made me think "That can't be it" - too simplistic. I've always found the Reapers very interesting and had a suspicion about their nature right after talking with Sovereign. So...I found what ME3 presented me with satisfying in concept, if not in execution. The EC helped with the latter a great deal, but I think they should've spread the revelation out more. 

[Ieldra]

Just to bring us on-topic again. Looking forward to meeting Miranda again in my current playthrough with my Renegon Shepard. Probably the first time I'll let the geth die...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:43 .

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
As the game should have been.

Boring and simple? I prefer the moral dilemas of this ending, thank you very much.
Crucible falls under "any sufficiently advanced technology is unrecognizable from magic". I accept that but understand other people might not.
The presentation might not be the best but I still find it to be immensely superior to "These are the bad guys. Kill them."

I get that, and believe me, I feel the same. But my honest opinion here is that the Reapers are not and should be made morally grey. Since the first game we've known their intentions. Several Reapers have stated them including Sovereign, Harbinger, and the Rannoch Destroyer. Their intention is to harvest enough of us to make a new reaper, and then wipe out the rest. To survive, the only thing we can do is to destroy them. Nothing really good or evil about it, just black and white. That's why imho, I think glowboy was trying to trick Shepard into picking control or synthesis. I know some of you guys have stated different and thats fine. To me, control is impossible as it DOES make Shepard the master tech-god of the Reapers, but the flipside is, he is still a Reaper now and as such he intends to carry out their agenda: wipe the galaxy clean of sentiet life and await the next cycle in dark space. As for synthesis, well, I'm all for some of the idea's that some other people have implemented for it, but just the way it is, it defies logic on a scale that comepletely blows my level of disbelief out the water. Synthesis is just to unbelievable for me to accept as anything other than space magic. 

[o Ventus]

A nice little sketch I saw on dArt. Very well done for a simple ballpoint. I like the stylized, animated look.

[fiendishchicken]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...
I sort of think they went a little overboard with the Reapers backstory. Sovereign was impressive because it was this eldritch abomination from dark space that we knew nothing about, finding out how Reapers reproduce in ME2 added to the effect.  Describing what the Reaper's motivations were and their origins were was interesting, and the endings present some interesting topics for discussion but they were never the most interesting part of the ME universe IMO. 

I always wanted the Reapers demystified, and "Reaperduction" made me think "That can't be it" - too simplistic. I've always found the Reapers very interesting and had a suspicion about their nature right after talking with Sovereign. So...I found what ME3 presented me with satisfying in concept, if not in execution. The EC helped with the latter a great deal, but I think they should've spread the revelation out more. 

Sorry if I sound like a complete moron, its 0650 in the morning here and the 5 hour energy hasn't taken effect yet.

I like the Lovecraftian premisis of the Reapers being an enigmatic race of machine gods. I agree with what the Doc says, and why diminish the mystery? I would have preferred if the Catalyst had stated that the goal, instead of the tech singularity (which would be acceptable if the writers hadn't taken a secondary theme and shoved it into the spotlight of overarching theme of the series at the last second), why not have the Reapers be like the gods that are vain and admire their perfection and seek to force everyone to be as perfect as them. It still leaves a lot of mystery for the Reapers. That and fear for self-preservation. 

And the whole idea minus 'reaperduction' of the Reapers intent to destroy the galaxy being completely unfathomable and unimaginable really intrigues me, though I can see where people will think that's lame and too simple and lazy writing. But not everything has to be super complex. Sometimes simple is the way to go.

[fiendishchicken]

Jebel Krong wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

The shock and trauma of Harbinger's blast alone ('cause lasers asplode now, amirite?)

i agree with everything you said about synthesis - totally, completely ridiculous space-magic belonging in dragon age, not science fiction, however reapers do not fire "lasers", despite the apparent in-game appearance - they fire solid projectiles suspended in magnetic fields, the thanix canon was developed from it for the normandy in me2.

It's actually more of a stream of molten metal at very high velocities.

I actually plasma would work well as an explanation as there is a scientific explanation for it and how it could be used offensively. 

[o Ventus]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Sorry if I sound like a complete moron, its 0650 in the morning here and the 5 hour energy hasn't taken effect yet.

I like the Lovecraftian premisis of the Reapers being an enigmatic race of machine gods. I agree with what the Doc says, and why diminish the mystery? I would have preferred if the Catalyst had stated that the goal, instead of the tech singularity (which would be acceptable if the writers hadn't taken a secondary theme and shoved it into the spotlight of overarching theme of the series at the last second), why not have the Reapers be like the gods that are vain and admire their perfection and seek to force everyone to be as perfect as them. It still leaves a lot of mystery for the Reapers. That and fear for self-preservation. 

And the whole idea minus 'reaperduction' of the Reapers intent to destroy the galaxy being completely unfathomable and unimaginable really intrigues me, though I can see where people will think that's lame and too simple and lazy writing. But not everything has to be super complex. Sometimes simple is the way to go.

Agreed, and I'm one of those people who wants to know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. When I hear about Lovecraftian entities and Eldritch abominations, who supposedly operate on a cosmic, very far reaching level and are "beyond our comprehension", I would prefer it stay that way. Anything beyond a superficial attempt at rationalizing their motives just downplays their significance, or in the Reapers' current case, takes away any sense of legitimate threat or terror they may have imbued in the past.

I guess the layman's version of what I'm trying to say is "did we REALLY need to know that?"

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Does anyone who watched Chuck remember that scene in Season 4, showing Sarah (Yvonne) in a Belly Dancing Costume? Well just now I saw the same situation involving Miri. Lol

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:23 .

[fiendishchicken]

yes season 4 episode 14: Chuck vs the Seduction Impossible.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

fiendishchicken wrote...

yes season 4 episode 14: Chuck vs the Seduction Impossible.

Yup. My Favorite is Chuck Vs. Phase Three.

Sarah kicks even more ass in that Episode.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
As the game should have been.

Boring and simple? I prefer the moral dilemas of this ending, thank you very much.
Crucible falls under "any sufficiently advanced technology is unrecognizable from magic". I accept that but understand other people might not.
The presentation might not be the best but I still find it to be immensely superior to "These are the bad guys. Kill them."

This x50000.

"Just kill them" would have been the most boring plot ever and would have totally ruined the whole trilogy for me. Why not let the mystery stand? Because mysteries are for solving, not for leaving them alone. Because "Things we aren't meant to know" aren't. That's why. Keeping the Reapers in their Lovecraftian corner would have sent a message I do not care for. At all. My anwer to "did we really need to know" is a resounding "Yes!"

@everyone else:
Can we please lay off with the Synthesis-bashing here? I get enough of that crap on the other forums.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:07 .

[Ieldra]

Gah.....started browsing deviantArt for Miranda fan art and found three Liara pictures on the first page... :/

[o Ventus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

"Just kill them" would have been the most boring plot ever and would have totally ruined the whole trilogy for me. Why not let the mystery stand? Because mysteries are for solving, not for leaving them alone. Because "Things we aren't meant to know" aren't. That's why. Keeping the Reapers in their Lovecraftian corner would have sent a message I do not care for. At all. My anwer to "did we really need to know" is a resounding "Yes!"

The whole point of a Lovecraftian horror is that you aren't supposed to know its origins, it's motives, etc etc. It's meant to play at the primal fear of the unknown. Literally ANYTHING would diminish it. You could curb the diminishment by keeping the exposition on a superficial level, but it's almost universally accepted as a bad idea to go in-depth with it, especially when the explanation is as awful and contrived as the one we got.

Telling us the Reapers' motives was one of the worst storytelling moves in the series. I would welcome an explanation, but not after they've tried so hard to paint them as Eldritch abominations.

Modifié par o Ventus, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:14 .

[jtav]

DA search function is wonky. I gather these weren't Liara/Miranda? Just Liara?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

[Ieldra]

o Ventus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

"Just kill them" would have been the most boring plot ever and would have totally ruined the whole trilogy for me. Why not let the mystery stand? Because mysteries are for solving, not for leaving them alone. Because "Things we aren't meant to know" aren't. That's why. Keeping the Reapers in their Lovecraftian corner would have sent a message I do not care for. At all. My anwer to "did we really need to know" is a resounding "Yes!"

The whole point of a Lovecraftian horror is that you aren't supposed to know its origins, it's motives, etc etc. It's meant to play at the primal fear of the unknown. Literally ANYTHING would diminish it. You could curb the diminishment by keeping the exposition on a superficial level, but it's almost universally accepted as a bad idea to go in-depth with it, especially when the explanation is as awful and contrived as the one we got.

Telling us the Reapers' motives was one of the worst storytelling moves in the series. I would welcome an explanation, but not after they've tried so hard to paint them as Eldritch abominations.

I see where you're coming from, but there was always something in the Reapers that hinted at an explanation. Right from the first encounter with Sovereign. Then came ME2 and Legion's revelations. I think the Reapers' nature was always a matter of perception. I agree that the *visual* presentation was extremely one-sided, and it dominated most players' perception. I commented on that in my Synthesis thread. However, if you paid attention to what was said about them, it was clear that they aren't Lovecraftian horrors. Sovereign told you enough about it that it screamed for an explanation.

BTW, here's a Miranda with subtle Synthesis eyes. The artist didn't get her face right, but it's still good work:

DA link

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:11 .