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[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Could you guys take pity on non-FF fans and move the conversation elsewhere?

*ahem* Sure

And now, back to your regularly scheduled Miranda...

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
And us defeating it would still require a reduction of its power or some other nullification (usually through a deus ex machina)

Well... I dunno. In the original story, the FF obtains a weapon from galactus' own arsenal (the appropriately campy "Ultimate Nullifier" as I recall) and threatens the entity with it, thereby affirming humanity's right to go on existing.

It doesn't really reduce Galactus' power so much as it affirms (in an admittedly campy way) that human agency and ingenuity can stand up to this cosmic force, demanding to be recognized as significant.

It has "promethean" aspects (stealing the fire of the gods).

lol couldn't fit better if I tried. The Ultimate Nullifier is a deus ex machina which "nullifies" all of Galactus' power. That it only does so potentially (the threat is never acted upon) isn't as significant.

It's an interesting case because both aspects are present. All of Galactus' might is useless against the Nullifier so his power is effectively taken out of the equation. But at the same time you do have the aspect of humanity daring to turn cosmic weapons against their master.

Damn it. Why couldn't Bioware just read more comics? I would've been perfectly fine if they ripped off the Galactus arc (with enough differentiation to avoid a lawsuit).

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:39 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
i.e. human beings steal the fire that is denied them in order to stand up to the gods.

Hate to be a stickler for details... but Prometheus was a titan. Humans didn't steal anything. It was given to them.

Much like the Watcher revealed the existence of the Nullifier... hmmm;)

Edit: Alright done with the comics discussion... for now:bandit:

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:41 .

[jtav]

Reposting for the sake of a discussion topic:

Hmm. In Synthesis, Miranda has her genetic code rewritten and she and all organics gain new abilities. So, she no longer has quite the genes she's born with. Do you think this would help her self-esteem issues?

[hot_heart]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Damn. Didn't mean to put this on the other comment. The pictures are too big to put on one post. I think this was done via Flycam.

That's a really cool pic, Luis. Thanks for sharing!

[Dr. Doctor]

CrutchCricket wrote...
No, Uncle Ben:crying: He taught me so much... with his one line that everyone parrots to death.

What's even better is that Martin Sheen played Uncle Ben in The Amazing Spider-Man. Although "With great power comes great responsibility" isn't something I could see TIM saying.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Hate to be a stickler for details... but Prometheus was a titan. Humans didn't steal anything. It was given to them.

In the myth, yes. But as a symbolic reference, humans can do the same thing. So their actions can be promethean.

Good point as to the watcher analogy. There's probably another layer to this type of story, which is the hope that the universe's indifference is only apparent, and that, on some level, human beings *are* innately important. hence the normally indifferent "Watcher" is inspired to intervene in their case.

Space opera protagonist-messiahs play into that aspect of things (they are the universe's "chosen one", etc.). 

Modifié par flemm, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:47 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

hot_heart wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Damn. Didn't mean to put this on the other comment. The pictures are too big to put on one post. I think this was done via Flycam.

That's a really cool pic, Luis. Thanks for sharing!

I know. It must have been FlyCam. I'll post it again incase some people missed it:



It's like someone came on the Normandy to take photos. I can also see this like something out of an interview. Probably about her resignation.

Reporter: Miss Lawson, you were once part of Cerberus. What made you resign after years of service? How do you feel about this? Did serving under the leadership of Commander Shepard encourage you to do this?

This reporter can show that people really do leave Cerberus. Perhaps a Documentary after ME3.

This would have also been Perfect for a Picture Frame in ME3.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:56 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
In the myth, yes. But as a symbolic reference, humans can do the same thing. So their actions can be promethean.

I've never understood the symbolism. If it's not based on the myth, why call it promethean?

"Stealing fire from the gods" may sound impressive but not when you're almost as strong as they are.

Stealing from the Louvre when you're the night watchman just doesn't have that same "kick".

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Reposting for the sake of a discussion topic:

Hmm. In Synthesis, Miranda has her genetic code rewritten and she and all organics gain new abilities. So, she no longer has quite the genes she's born with. Do you think this would help her self-esteem issues?

Sorry, not ignoring you.

No I don't think it improves her self-esteem at all. She didn't earn these new powers any more than she earned her genes. She didn't have any more choice in the matter either. The only difference is Shepard's not around to mistreat her (as if he would).

Of course, this isn't taking into account whatever mindjob may or may not be associated with synthesis.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
I've never understood the symbolism. If it's not based on the myth, why call it promethean?

"Stealing fire from the gods" may sound impressive but not when you're almost as strong as they are.

Stealing from the Louvre when you're the night watchman just doesn't have that same "kick".

LoL

Well... it's like any analogy, I guess. A point of comparison, but not necessarily exact equivalence. 

[CrutchCricket]

The Louvre was really the first thing that came into my mind for some reason. Maybe not the best since it's only a movie/TV myth that museums are as hard to break into as the CIA.

How about this? Breaking into the CIA isn't as impressive if you're Sarah Walker:P

No, no I take that back. Anything Yvonne, Sarah or Miranda does is impressive.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:57 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

^ I'm trying to imagine seeing them doing something similar to Uma Thurman's Character in Kill Bill.

[CrutchCricket]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
What's even better is that Martin Sheen played Uncle Ben in The Amazing Spider-Man. Although "With great power comes great responsibility" isn't something I could see TIM saying.

I think on some level TIM accepts responsibility for what he must do. He accepts the weight of the sacrifices. I see him a lot like Ozymandias in that respect.

Or at least he was. I'm not sure what ME3 TIM's game is.

[Dr. Doctor]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

^ I'm trying to imagine seeing them doing something similar to Uma Thurman's Character in Kill Bill.

Wait, so wouldn't that make the Phantoms the Crazy 88? And if Kai Leng is supposed to be their leader wouldn't that make him Gogo?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

^ I'm trying to imagine seeing them doing something similar to Uma Thurman's Character in Kill Bill.

Wait, so wouldn't that make the Phantoms the Crazy 88? And if Kai Leng is supposed to be their leader wouldn't that make him Gogo?

Possibly!  

I can see Miri in a yellow Jump Suit, with a Katana, killing all of them one by one.


Kill Henry Vol. 1 

*Shepard Reaches the Tower. He Finds Miri. She is Safe, but covered in blood. The blood is not hers*

Shepard: *Sees dead Phantoms and blood everywhere* Whoa! What happened here? Miranda, what happened? Are you ok? *Holds her, Relieved to see her safe*

Miri: I'm fine, Shepard. It's ok.

Shepard: But you're covered in....Blood. ....Why are you holding a....Katana? Did you take it from a Phantom? And what's with the Yellow Jump Suit?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 juillet 2012 - 05:37 .

[CrutchCricket]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
And if Kai Leng is supposed to be their leader wouldn't that make him Gogo?

Still needs more twirling like a fairy. And Gogo doesn't run off to "recharge" everytime she gets a scratch.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri: I was amazed when watching a 21st Century Film called "Kill Bill," even though the plot was a bit....odd. 

Shepard: You took out all of these phantoms, and Kai Leng by yourself. This is incredible.

Miri: I'm sorry you missed the party. It was cut short for them, literally.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 juillet 2012 - 05:59 .

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
It's just that I never saw the Reapers as "cosmic" on that scale. Likely because I've read too much SF with *really* cosmic powers. Does anyone here know Perry Rhodan (a German pulp-SF series running for 51 years now)? The occasionally wonky concepts aside, the cosmic powers there really are that. Reapers are much too tangible a life form to qualify as cosmic.

Why do you think that? Because they're physical?

Because they're not encompassing enough. The Catalyst as an embodiment of all the Reapers may be near the mark, but a Reaper simply isn't big enough. I can comprehend its scale. Also, I've grown up reading SF featuring cosmic powers with minds encompassing galaxy clusters. That's what I'd call cosmic.

Though I agree about the kid. Urgh. Couldn't have selected a worse form to press the Catalyst into. If I could only exorcize all occurrences of that brat from the game.

Hmm. I wonder if you could mod the game files and make the holokid's textures transparent, making it invisible. It's not really removing it but a disembodied voice might work wonders.

That's something to think about. A disembodied voice.... Now if I could remove the dreams as well...

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Hmm. In Synthesis, Miranda has her genetic code rewritten and she and all organics gain new abilities. So, she no longer has quite the genes she's born with. Do you think this would help her self-esteem issues.

I don't think she has any left at the end of ME3, but if she had, certainly. She'd see first-hand that her genes aren't what define her. Also, I think everyone still has the same information coded in their genes as before. It's just that (a) a different, more versatile coding mechanism is used and (2) the genetic groundwork to integrate technology is added.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
And now, back to your regularly scheduled Miranda...

This is one of the most beautiful Miranda pictures. It caught be my surprise this time....LOL.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Because they're not encompassing enough. The Catalyst as an embodiment of all the Reapers may be near the mark, but a Reaper simply isn't big enough. I can comprehend its scale. Also, I've grown up reading SF featuring cosmic powers with minds encompassing galaxy clusters. That's what I'd call cosmic.

I don't know. There are a lot of important natural forces and cosmic laws I can comprehend in terms of scale. Also, there are things about the Reapers that move in the direction of incomprehensibility (such as the idea that each represents the collective consciousness of a species).

To me the problem is that no rational explanation for the Reapers' existence can really be provided imo. To the extent that the story even identifies a plausible problem that they solve or address, it's going to be hard to accept the Reapers as the best/only solution. (As it happens, starbrat has problems on both ends: the gravity of the problem the Reapers are supposed to be addressing is undermined by the rest of the plot *and* it's hard to accept the Reapers as a logical solution to that problem.)

The reason why it would have been better, I think, to go more in the direction of cosmic force is that the Reapers would then draw power, as a concept, from their inhumanity, from the very fact that they don't make sense from a normal human, rational point of view. With that in mind, they can become a manifestation of the eternally frightening reality that the universe doesn't care that much about us.

Starbrat is almost like having the universe say: I care about you! Look! I came up with this horrifying, brutal idea... And it was all to keep you safe!

I don't want to hear the universe say that

Modifié par flemm, 06 juillet 2012 - 06:02 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

*Shepard's Reaction when seeing Miri holding a Katana*


Shepard: How did you learn to use an ancient weapon so quickly?

Miri: I am a fast learner, Shepard. These Phantoms obviously learned that the hard way. *In a seductive voice* I am a dangerous enemy, you know?

Shepard: *Moves closer to Miri to kiss her* You most certainly are dangerous.

This would be good for Fan Art.:innocent:

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 juillet 2012 - 06:02 .

[jtav]

One of the better moments of the ME2 romance. I'll probably have to dodge tomatoes for this but I find the ME3 romance content much better. ME2 feels a bit hackneyed. ME3 feels more specific to a particular couple in a particular situation. ME2s romance feels like watching a pair of archetypes.