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[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
I can understand wanting the antagonist to be an incomprehensible cosmic force but, like fleem said, that ship has sailed regarding the Reapers. And I am fine with it, ME should be about humanity rising above the Reapers.

One thing that's really been lost in all this discussion is that what the Reapers do is horrific and brutal. That's yet another big problem with how they have been handled.

If they were treated more as a cosmic force then the inhumanity and brutality becomes a strong point because, well, the universe is inhuman and pretty brutal a lot of the time to organic life. It's the order of things.

But when you start trying to say: these creatures exist for practical reasons, what they do makes sense in rational terms, they are not so different from us, then people will balk at that because then the inhumanity and brutality becomes something you have to account for, just as you would if any other sentient beings were accomplishing these horrific acts.

That's where these theories come in:

*On the nature of the Catalyst and the Reapers, and why Synthesis is an attractive choice by me.
*The Truth: the Reapers want Shepard to succeedThe Truth: the Reapers want Shepard to succeed[/url] by JustinElenbaas

Short version: the Reapers are as much victims as servants of the cycle, they're enslaved by the Catalyst, and they're complicit in Shepard's success to some small degree, as much as their "indoctrination" allows them to be. That explains why Harbinger doesn't attack the Normandy.

Oops, top of the page....


As usual, the good Miranda pictures are from ME2.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 juillet 2012 - 07:42 .

[LanceSolous13]

PMC65 wrote...

Little Red Corvette wrote...

I have a quick question on the topic of Miranda changing her last name.

Do you think Shepard would be willing to change his last name to Lawson(Not the tradition, but it does happen) or No? Depend on your Shepard's name of coarse.

I personally think if Shepard's first name was John, it could work.

Considering that Miranda is not too fond of her father, Henry Lawson, I would think she would prefer changing her name to Shepard. Why would she feel attached to a name (Lawson) that links her to a man that she killed?

PV Shepard would not give up his family name for anyone. Of course, Miranda could keep her name even after marriage ... Many business and political women do these days.

You pose a good point, though she DID keep the name to spite her father. Hmmmm...

[kaymarierose]

Even though she'd probably still keep 'Lawson' her last name for professional situations, I'd imagine that she would still refer to herself as Miranda Shepard. Really the only reason it doesn't sound right is because everyone calls Shepard by his last name. If he was constantly called 'Commander' or by his first name, whatever it may be, Miranda Shepard wouldn't sound so weird.

 

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I can see no other interpretation than that Miranda is looking for a way to undermine the control of Control!Shepard. I wonder if she even knows what happened...

Well, that last part leads me to believe that she might just be investigating. Still, the "bunker" quality of the location does create a certain ambiance favorable to the idea that she is actively opposing the new galactic status quo.

Perhaps not directly opposing, but studying,  looking for weak points and seeking a position from where humanity can hold its own if necessary. It's what every nation, power, etc.. would do, and Miranda is perfectly qualified to lead such an effort.

[PMC65]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Little Red Corvette wrote...

I have a quick question on the topic of Miranda changing her last name.

Do you think Shepard would be willing to change his last name to Lawson(Not the tradition, but it does happen) or No? Depend on your Shepard's name of coarse.

I personally think if Shepard's first name was John, it could work.

Considering that Miranda is not too fond of her father, Henry Lawson, I would think she would prefer changing her name to Shepard. Why would she feel attached to a name (Lawson) that links her to a man that she killed?

PV Shepard would not give up his family name for anyone. Of course, Miranda could keep her name even after marriage ... Many business and political women do these days.

You pose a good point, though she DID keep the name to spite her father. Hmmmm...

But would she have hers and Shepard's kids carry the name out of spite? I would think after Horizon and how history will show the Lawson name, she would prefer her children to have a last name of honor. That is why I think that if she married Shepard she would take his ... and as I said, PV Shepard would never give up his last name.

[LanceSolous13]

PV?

[kookie28]

Since the thread isn't in chaos I'm assuming that no Miranda related DLC has been announced,

[Aliqaiser]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Normandy

Joker: Reaper IFF is online, they shouldn't be able to tell who we are now.

Shepard: Good, start the scanner.

Meanwhile in another system

Reaper: Hey! Bob's transmitting again!

Reaper #2: I heard he got shot by that giant gun last cycle. Good to see that he's back to work.

Reaper: Maybe we should go see how he's doing?

Reaper #2: That sounds great, I'll go tell everyone else!

Reaper: He's going to be so surprised!

Lol, 

Modifié par Aliqaiser, 08 juillet 2012 - 09:35 .

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I can see no other interpretation than that Miranda is looking for a way to undermine the control of Control!Shepard. I wonder if she even knows what happened...

Well, that last part leads me to believe that she might just be investigating. Still, the "bunker" quality of the location does create a certain ambiance favorable to the idea that she is actively opposing the new galactic status quo.

Perhaps not directly opposing, but studying,  looking for weak points and seeking a position from where humanity can hold its own if necessary. It's what every nation, power, etc.. would do, and Miranda is perfectly qualified to lead such an effort.

asmuch as i admire all your gusto, that's reading a lot into one slide....

[Jebel Krong]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Normandy

Joker: Reaper IFF is online, they shouldn't be able to tell who we are now.

Shepard: Good, start the scanner.

Meanwhile in another system

Reaper: Hey! Bob's transmitting again!

Reaper #2: I heard he got shot by that giant gun last cycle. Good to see that he's back to work.

Reaper: Maybe we should go see how he's doing?

Reaper #2: That sounds great, I'll go tell everyone else!

Reaper: He's going to be so surprised!

That's just awesome 

[Jebel Krong]

CrutchCricket wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
The Normandy is a Frigate

armed with a Thannix cannon that everyone seems to forget about. You know the same "Imma firin mah lazor" thing that Reapers have? The thing that's took out the Collector Cruiser in two shots?

Obviously Harbinger won't go down so easily. But the Normandy is more than just a pesky fly to it. I would've loved to see the Normady fire at Harbinger and Harbinger give chase. That would've made more sense that it just ****ing standing there while your squad saunters over for a pickup and teary goodby from Shepard.

all the dreadnaughts were supposed to have thanix cannons by me3, it says as much somewhere in the game (codex?), however the effectiveness against reaper shields mean that it takes either special tacticsor overwhelming numbers to have the desired effect. there's a good moment in the final space battle when a reapers is being shot by a turian and alliance dreadnaught and even as it explodes it takes out the alliance ship.

[Jebel Krong]

MisterJB wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
But Reapers rebelling? God if even Bioware jumps on this "let's victimize the Reapers bandwagon"...

And why shouldn't they? I find it very hard to believe that all converted civilizations would promptly agree to follow the Catalyst's solution unless they are compelled somehow.

With Legion, Bioware allowed us to see another side of the geth and I wouldn't mind if they did it again for the Reapers.

compelled like being liquefied and shoved in a giant cuttlefish?

also i don't get where everyone is getting that harbinger is the biggest/most powerful reaper from? it's hinted/stated that it's the oldest and one of the largest class, but what would be the purpose of having one slightly bigger than the rest?

unless of course harbinger was the first/a prototype, hinted at by starchild (dialogue cuts to a shot of a reaper- presumably harbinger), which would be ironic - the creator race becoming the primary servant of the catalyst-solution.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 08 juillet 2012 - 10:56 .

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I can see no other interpretation than that Miranda is looking for a way to undermine the control of Control!Shepard. I wonder if she even knows what happened...

Well, that last part leads me to believe that she might just be investigating. Still, the "bunker" quality of the location does create a certain ambiance favorable to the idea that she is actively opposing the new galactic status quo.

Perhaps not directly opposing, but studying,  looking for weak points and seeking a position from where humanity can hold its own if necessary. It's what every nation, power, etc.. would do, and Miranda is perfectly qualified to lead such an effort.

asmuch as i admire all your gusto, that's reading a lot into one slide....

...a slide that shows Miranda and Oriana looking at a wall full of screens showing Reapers and their different parts in considerable detail. You don't really think they're just looking at your friendly neighborhood Reaper because it looks cool, do you?

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I can see no other interpretation than that Miranda is looking for a way to undermine the control of Control!Shepard. I wonder if she even knows what happened...

Well, that last part leads me to believe that she might just be investigating. Still, the "bunker" quality of the location does create a certain ambiance favorable to the idea that she is actively opposing the new galactic status quo.

Perhaps not directly opposing, but studying,  looking for weak points and seeking a position from where humanity can hold its own if necessary. It's what every nation, power, etc.. would do, and Miranda is perfectly qualified to lead such an effort.

asmuch as i admire all your gusto, that's reading a lot into one slide....

...a slide that shows Miranda and Oriana looking at a wall full of screens showing Reapers and their different parts in considerable detail. You don't really think they're just looking at your friendly neighborhood Reaper because it looks cool, do you?

no, of course not, but taken in conjunction with the voice-over where it's stated the reapers are helping rebuild civilisation the obvious intention is, well, obvious. You could perhaps inevitably read suspicion into the sudden change of repaer direction amongst various factions - including miranda etc. but that's about it.

[Ieldra]

Hmm.....I'm afraid you'll need to explain that "obvious intention", because it's not so obvious to me.

[MisterJB]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

That brings up a question I've been meaning to ask for awhile.

Why are the Reapers doing things like "setting up meetings with political leaders to indoctrinate them and set up laws against attacking the Reapers" as EDI mentions. What would be the point to this as....The Reapers have never attacked in such a...for a lack of a better word, civilized manner. They slaughtered and killed wherever they went. Humans don't really have the fire power to kill Reapers either. Why go through all of this? And, even with that, The likelyhood of ANYONE following laws against attacking Reaper Forces is...?

If the Reapers wanted, they could have turned Earth to ash in the first days of the invasion. They are not interested in slaughtering organics, they want to round up the population and decide who will become a component for a new Human Reaper and who will be an Husk minion.
This would, of course, be a lot easier if the population just stopped fighting them.

Ieldra2 wrote...
...a slide that shows Miranda and Oriana looking at a wall full of screens showing Reapers and their different parts in considerable detail. You don't really think they're just looking at your friendly neighborhood Reaper because it looks cool, do you?

Not to mention the Inner Ring of the Citadel which suggests they know, or what least suspect, what Shepard did.

[MisterJB]

PMC65 wrote...
But would she have hers and Shepard's kids carry the name out of spite? I would think after Horizon and how history will show the Lawson name, she would prefer her children to have a last name of honor. That is why I think that if she married Shepard she would take his ... and as I said, PV Shepard would never give up his last name.

They could just add each other's name. Commander Lawson-Shepard and Miranda Shepard-Lawson.
Any future children would then carry both of their names.

[Cmdr. Ken Shepard]

After everything that happened with her father, I can't see her wanting to keep the Lawson name at all. Aside from her own experience the events of horizon I think would eat at her, especially if she continued usage of Lawson.

After the war what happened at sanctuary would likely become common knowledge. She would want to wash her hands of what happened there.

[JeffZero]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm.....I'm afraid you'll need to explain that "obvious intention", because it's not so obvious to me.

I took it to mean that Miranda and Oriana are studying their new galactic cleaning service to understand much of the science that had previously been rendered rather difficult to obtain as the cleaners would often shoot deadly laser beams capable of sending entire civilizations to ashes. I must admit, your hypothesis had barely even touched my mind, let alone made itself the only possibility I could fathom when viewing that scene.

[o Ventus]

Jebel Krong wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
But Reapers rebelling? God if even Bioware jumps on this "let's victimize the Reapers bandwagon"...

And why shouldn't they? I find it very hard to believe that all converted civilizations would promptly agree to follow the Catalyst's solution unless they are compelled somehow.

With Legion, Bioware allowed us to see another side of the geth and I wouldn't mind if they did it again for the Reapers.

compelled like being liquefied and shoved in a giant cuttlefish?

also i don't get where everyone is getting that harbinger is the biggest/most powerful reaper from? it's hinted/stated that it's the oldest and one of the largest class, but what would be the purpose of having one slightly bigger than the rest?

unless of course harbinger was the first/a prototype, hinted at by starchild (dialogue cuts to a shot of a reaper- presumably harbinger), which would be ironic - the creator race becoming the primary servant of the catalyst-solution.

There's a dialogue file (presumably for the Leviathan thing) in the EC that specifically says "The first true Reaper, that which you know in this cycle, as Harbinger."

Modifié par o Ventus, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:26 .

[o Ventus]

Cmdr. Ken Shepard wrote...

After everything that happened with her father, I can't see her wanting to keep the Lawson name at all. Aside from her own experience the events of horizon I think would eat at her, especially if she continued usage of Lawson.

After the war what happened at sanctuary would likely become common knowledge. She would want to wash her hands of what happened there.

But Miranda would be regarded as a heroine for what she did at Sanctuary, plus she's associated with Commander Shepard and directly helped in the war effort. I don't think her personal use of the Lawson name would carry too negative a connotation, not for her anyway.

[o Ventus]

kaymarierose wrote...

Even though she'd probably still keep 'Lawson' her last name for professional situations, I'd imagine that she would still refer to herself as Miranda Shepard. Really the only reason it doesn't sound right is because everyone calls Shepard by his last name. If he was constantly called 'Commander' or by his first name, whatever it may be, Miranda Shepard wouldn't sound so weird. 

IMO, "Miranda Shepard" just doesn't roll off the tongue very well.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm.....I'm afraid you'll need to explain that "obvious intention", because it's not so obvious to me.

er, that the reapers now under "control" are now helping civilisation rebuild rather than destroying them. The screens could just as easily be taken as monitoring their progress to that effect - which the voice over states.

[jtav]

No, it doesn't. Shepard-Lawson might work, bu I'm inclined to believe she'll keep her surname. And there are two associations with the Lawson name regarding Sanctuary: Henry's but also hers.

[ThomGau]

In my opinion the fact that "Miranda Shepard" doesn't seem to work as good as "Miranda Lawson" is mostly due to habit, we are used to it. "Miranda Shepard" may sound better eventually.
All in all I think she would take the name of Shepard while still keeping her own surname: Miranda Lawson Shepard.

Modifié par ThomGau, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:57 .