82210 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

flemm wrote...

That's not really how it works, for the most part.

The Extended Cut is actually a good example of this, in certain ways.

1) Original Endings released. Creators had a certain idea in mind, but it didn't come across. Had they left it at that, there would really be no way to determine whether the creator's "intent" had any value at all.

2) Not satisfied with the reception of their original idea, the cretors try again (Extended Cut). Part of the point of this was to make certain interpretations impossible, yes, but that doesn't mean they weren't possible or valid before.

3) Now we have a new version, and creator "intent" doesn't really matter anymore, once again.

Something like that.

I wouldn't even say that pre-EC, the writers had a particular idea about anything. There was next to no exposè provided on ANYTHING, and the endings were too vague for any 1 interpretation to be remotely correct (or incorrect). Now that it's been released however, they did a decent job at clarifying what I would assume the original message was supposed to be (Turns out everybody didn't starve to death at all). I don't agree with the message because I think it's horrifically racist, but it's the message they wanted to send.

Organics are idiots and Synthetics are a**holes. There's no real way to work around that.

[hot_heart]

Oh, I'm not saying that to read the Control slide that way is wrong or anything. I like it.

I just don't believe 100% that BioWare were thinking so much about it.

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

A couple of relevant quotes to chew on:

All worthy work is open to interpretations the author did not intend. Art isn't your pet -- it's your kid. It grows up and talks back to you.
-Joss Whedon

Very relevant to Miranda, actually, I think

Got to love Joss.

[jtav]

hot_heart wrote...

Oh, I'm not saying that to read the Control slide that way is wrong or anything. I like it.

I just don't believe 100% that BioWare were thinking so much about it.

Neither do I, but why let that spoil things?

[flemm]

hot_heart wrote...
I just don't believe 100% that BioWare were thinking so much about it.

Thinking about it is our job

In all seriousness, there had to be at least something like: in the control ending, Miranda and Oriana will be standing in front of some screens, apparently studying the Reapers.

Which isn't really all that different from some of what we've been saying.

[PMC65]

MisterJB wrote...

PMC65 wrote...
But would she have hers and Shepard's kids carry the name out of spite? I would think after Horizon and how history will show the Lawson name, she would prefer her children to have a last name of honor. That is why I think that if she married Shepard she would take his ... and as I said, PV Shepard would never give up his last name.

They could just add each other's name. Commander Lawson-Shepard and Miranda Shepard-Lawson.
Any future children would then carry both of their names.

They could, depending on the storyteller ... true.

But if Miranda were to marry Shepard she would take his name and the children would be Shepard.* 

*This applies only to my headcanon and not required of others. Lawson, Lawson-Shepard, Shepard-Lawson ... If that works for others then go with it. It just would not apply in the PV Shepard / Miranda Lawson world. 

EDIT: Wright1978 ... every time I see that avatar I think of Saphra Dean. What happened to Dean? Does anyone know?

Modifié par PMC65, 08 juillet 2012 - 06:17 .

[AussieGiant]

flemm wrote...

Another day, another existential crisis.

If you read this stuff in big chucks skimming through just to keep up...then these momnet makes me lose my lunch...

Modifié par AussieGiant, 08 juillet 2012 - 06:44 .

[AussieGiant]

On topic:

I'm still pretty fixed on the destroy ending and can't really get the other two.

Your entire psychology is crystalised into a fight for survival, you manage to accomplish something no organic has ever achieved, you find out it's one big self fulfilling cycle (keep in mind it's created by an AI which has unilaterally decided this is the best course of action) and you can either join the Reapers or combine the two.

Given the Geth and Quarian's have demonstrated an ability to coexist, thereby ruling out that synthesis is really necessary, then why do people chose anything other than destroy and thereby giving back to organics the right to self determination?

I understand empathy and sympathetic aspects to EDI and other AI's which will be destroy in a one time only event but that is also not the final solution to their existence.  (They will come back, it's not like the technology has been lost for ever.)

Looking forward to the half dozen or so vets here to shed some light on this for me.

Cheers
AG

Modifié par AussieGiant, 09 juillet 2012 - 06:20 .

[fiendishchicken]

Ieldra2 wrote...

That's where these theories come in:

*On the nature of the Catalyst and the Reapers, and why Synthesis is an attractive choice by me.
*The Truth: the Reapers want Shepard to succeedThe Truth: the Reapers want Shepard to succeed[/url] by JustinElenbaas

Short version: the Reapers are as much victims as servants of the cycle, they're enslaved by the Catalyst, and they're complicit in Shepard's success to some small degree, as much as their "indoctrination" allows them to be. That explains why Harbinger doesn't attack the Normandy.

Sorry mate. The reapers have all been pretty clear in their intentions towards us. Not once did I ever glean any kind of suffering from the Reapers. I know you go for the complex stuff, but in this case simple is the way to go. You're reading into it too much. The Reapers only want to kill us all, and keep a few alive long enough to make another of them. They're a threat to all life in the galaxy and they have to be destroyed if we are to survive. But we'll just agree to disagree on this subject. As for the Catalyst, imo he's just an illusion created by a Reaper to confuse and convince Shepard into taking a path (control and synthesis) that benefits the Reapers. That's all I read out of this stuff.

Another POV that I like: I see the Reapers as a singular combined entity, like white blood cells or neurons that create one brain. If the catalyst is real (which I believe he's not) He is not the controller of the Reapers, he is the Reapers and the Reapers are all him. He is the combined essence of the Reapers. 

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

:wub::wub:

[AussieGiant]

I know its been mentioned numerous time, but if we put our "hat of objectivity" on for a second, what are the actual chances we might get some DLC with Miss Lawson in it?

Modifié par AussieGiant, 09 juillet 2012 - 06:20 .

[fiendishchicken]

wright1978 wrote...

flemm wrote...

A couple of relevant quotes to chew on:

All worthy work is open to interpretations the author did not intend. Art isn't your pet -- it's your kid. It grows up and talks back to you.
-Joss Whedon

Very relevant to Miranda, actually, I think

Got to love Joss.

On another note, if you have to explain the message that your art is supposed to be making, then it didn't work.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

flemm, I think that whole line of reasoning that starts with "Reapers as victims" has robbed me of the power to keep my lunch down.

 

AussieGiant wrote...

flemm wrote...

Another day, another existential crisis.

If you read this stuff in big chucks skimming through just to keep up...then these momnet makes me lose my lunch...

That's two lunches lost already today

We're doing well.

Modifié par flemm, 08 juillet 2012 - 07:06 .

[Ieldra]

@AussieGiant:
About your ending question: I don't want to derail this thread from its topic any further, so I'll restrict myself to saying that I choose the future that appears to be the most interesting to me. For more details and the in-world reasoning, read the thread linked in my sig and specifically the threads by JShepppp linked therein, that should give you the necessary perspective.

About a Miranda DLC: I think there's a chance for DLC featuring the ME2 LIs not on the ME3 team, perhaps along with other things. I also think there's a chance for Miranda making an appearance in a general story DLC. But rather obviously, she'll never be an irreplaceable character in a DLC.

[jtav]

I think there's a chance she'll appear in a story DLC. What intrigues me/raises my hopes is that they did pretty much shoot Thane fans down, but not us.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

If a DLC is true, would Miri have a Different outfit, which will link to the rest of the Game?

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
About a Miranda DLC: I think there's a chance for DLC featuring the ME2 LIs not on the ME3 team, perhaps along with other things. I also think there's a chance for Miranda making an appearance in a general story DLC. But rather obviously, she'll never be an irreplaceable character in a DLC.

I think something along these lines is reasonably likely. We'll see.

[spirosz]

jtav wrote...

I think there's a chance she'll appear in a story DLC. What intrigues me/raises my hopes is that they did pretty much shoot Thane fans down, but not us.

When did they do that? 

[flemm]

spiros9110 wrote...

When did they do that? 

Weekes intimated via twitter that they were unlikely to retcon Thane's death. I don't think it means much where Miranda and Jack are concerned, though, except insofar as they can survive (so no such retcon is necessary).

I actually think that, if we do see Miranda and Jack again, they may also add some sort of Thane memorial to the game (or something along those lines).

Modifié par flemm, 08 juillet 2012 - 07:35 .

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
About a Miranda DLC: I think there's a chance for DLC featuring the ME2 LIs not on the ME3 team, perhaps along with other things. I also think there's a chance for Miranda making an appearance in a general story DLC. But rather obviously, she'll never be an irreplaceable character in a DLC.

I think something along these lines is reasonably likely. We'll see.

I think there's only a small chance of a DLC Miranda appearance, given they set it up so she was meant to die. Only hope i can see is adding extra content as an optional extra into a larger DLC such as Omega. Keeping everything crossed for this scenario.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...
 Only hope i can see is adding extra content as an optional extra into a larger DLC such as Omega. Keeping everything crossed for this scenario.

That's the sort of thing Ieldra was refering to. And agreed.

[jtav]

flemm wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

When did they do that? 

Weekes intimated via twitter that they were unlikely to retcon Thane's death. I don't think it means much where Miranda and Jack are concerned, though, except insofar as they can survive (so no such retcon is necessary).

I actually think that, if we do see Miranda and Jack again, they may also add some sort of Thane memorial to the game (at least).

Tully also suggested they were pretty happy with Thane's role. And honestly, if they were going to sticky a thread for the purpose of mollifying the fanbase, it would be one of the threads begging for DLC about him. They've been more vocal.

Truthfully, I expect more text or similar that doesn't require speech.

[fiendishchicken]

I'm not getting a romance DLC, unless they treat all ME2 LI's fairly. I don't want it to be just for us. Even tough Miri is my one and only, and I'll never see any of the other LI content, I believe that each of us needs to have the content work for everyone. So if they ever do an LI content, great! If it has Miranda (which it should) better. It needs to work for all the ME2 LI lovers and ME3 LI lovers (and you'll have to throw in some Blue Pet, Dextro Team, and VS to make those fans shut up) otherwise, its contrived and not worth my time. Even if its a six hour pack featuring Miranda only and has a ticket giving me a date with Yvonne, I couldn't accept it unless it worked for all the LI's that got shafted.

I encourage all of you to support more content for everone. <3

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 08 juillet 2012 - 07:45 .

[jtav]

I'm not interested in a romance DLC. I want Miranda's characterization fixed. I don't want to see more romance content; I merely partner with those who do out of necessity.

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

I'm not interested in a romance DLC. I want Miranda's characterization fixed. I don't want to see more romance content; I merely partner with those who do out of necessity.

Yep story content is much more important to me. If there's a sprinkling of LI content within that then great.