82210 réponses à ce sujet

[fiendishchicken]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

You think Miranda ever noticed some of the Normandy's crew in ME2 making inappropriate comments about her? Namely, Joker and Donnelly.

How would she react if she ever found out?

She probably does know, She just isn't going to say anything till its said straight to her face.

"I won't say anything about Miranda and expect to surviva the reprisal." I believe is what Joker says.

Shepard is probably the only person who could ever say anything to her face and get away with it.

I don't think even Shepard could get away with it. I think Oriana is actually the only person to potentially do it. 

[o Ventus]

fiendishchicken wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

You think Miranda ever noticed some of the Normandy's crew in ME2 making inappropriate comments about her? Namely, Joker and Donnelly.

How would she react if she ever found out?

She probably does know, She just isn't going to say anything till its said straight to her face.

"I won't say anything about Miranda and expect to surviva the reprisal." I believe is what Joker says.

Shepard is probably the only person who could ever say anything to her face and get away with it.

I don't think even Shepard could get away with it. I think Oriana is actually the only person to potentially do it. 

...

Why would Oriana make inappropriate comments about her sister?

[jtav]

I think Weekes even did some damage control in the main game. He wrote Cronos, and the Cronos version of her motivation about Sanctuary has nothing to do with Ori.

As for Jay, he's actually a better romance writer per se than Weekes IMO, but he botched the character either due to his own weaknesses or direction from above.

And yeah, they get it. All that screaming was good for something.

[fiendishchicken]

Td1984 wrote...

@dtrain24

I've been tempted to try a playthrough with Thomas that after re-affirming the relationship during the first conversation ultimately locks-in with Ashley just prior to the apartment scene with Miranda, just to see what happens when Sanctuary rolls around.

I've checked everywhere, the only kind of conflict coming from an Ashley/ Miranda love triangle is Ashley's "I wear armor, not a swimsuit" speech that only made me detest her even more. Have fun being a nuclear crater on Virmire! 

[fiendishchicken]

o Ventus wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

You think Miranda ever noticed some of the Normandy's crew in ME2 making inappropriate comments about her? Namely, Joker and Donnelly.

How would she react if she ever found out?

She probably does know, She just isn't going to say anything till its said straight to her face.

"I won't say anything about Miranda and expect to surviva the reprisal." I believe is what Joker says.

Shepard is probably the only person who could ever say anything to her face and get away with it.

I don't think even Shepard could get away with it. I think Oriana is actually the only person to potentially do it. 

...

Why would Oriana make inappropriate comments about her sister?

For some reason I see Oriana as being the only person (along with Shepard) where Miranda slightly backs off the professional facade and lets her human side through. I see Oriana as teasing her about her love life and being able to get under Miranda's skin without having to worry about the reprisal. 

BTW, how does a story element where: Oriana finds out what Miranda does for a living and reacts negatively to it. Imagine that episode of Chuck where Chuck see Sarah kill the Fulcrum agent who found out Chuck was the Intersect while hiding behind a christmas tree. Sarah kills him to protect Chuck, but Chuck becomes afraid of her for a short time. That's what I had in planning, except Oriana calls Miranda a murderer and Shepard has a very livid reaction towards Oriana because of this. 

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:03 .

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
I think Weekes even did some damage control in the main game. He wrote Cronos, and the Cronos version of her motivation about Sanctuary has nothing to do with Ori.

Probably that was the intent, yeah. I admit the inconsistencies annoy me. For example, in the first two main dialogues, it's established that (1) TIM tried to assassinate Miranda when she left Cerberus and (2) she is being hunted by lots of Cerberus assassins.

Yet the Cronos log suggests that TIM only wants Leng to attack Miranda if she interferes. So... that's more than a little odd, given what we know from the main dialogues.

It's possible that one area of confusion was what people wanted to see with regard to Miranda's relationship with Cerberus. What they seem to not have figured out, or only belatedly, was that Miranda's ambition, need for a challenge, sense of purpose, etc. was much more important than the question of whether Miranda was still loyal to Cerberus per se or not.
 

Modifié par flemm, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:10 .

[fiendishchicken]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...
I think Weekes even did some damage control in the main game. He wrote Cronos, and the Cronos version of her motivation about Sanctuary has nothing to do with Ori.

Probably that was the intent, yeah. I admit the inconsistencies annoy me. For example, in the first two main dialogues, it's established that (1) TIM tried to assassinate Miranda when she left Cerberus and (2) she is being hunted by lots of Cerberus assassins.

Yet the Cronos log suggests that TIM only wants Leng to attack Miranda is she interferes. So... that's a bit odd, given what we know from the main dialogues.

I like Ventus' story explanation, except I believe TIM isn't actively hunting her (yet) but Miranda has had enough run-ins to be on guard and is also trying to make some noise to get Cerberus off Shepard's back. How do you think that would work with Miranda taking necessary actions to get Cerberus to follow her while buying Shepard the time to get **** done.

[o Ventus]

fiendishchicken wrote...

For some reason I see Oriana as being the only person (along with Shepard) where Miranda slightly backs off the professional facade and lets her human side through. I see Oriana as teasing her about her love life and being able to get under Miranda's skin without having to worry about the reprisal.

Agreed, though Jacob is also good friends with Miranda, though I don't think he would get the "family or lover" treatment that Oriana and Shepard get, respectively.

BTW, how does a story element where: Oriana finds out what Miranda does for a living and reacts negatively to it. Imagine that episode of Chuck where Chuck see Sarah kill the Fulcrum agent who found out Chuck was the Intersect while hiding behind a christmas tree. Sarah kills him to protect Chuck, but Chuck becomes afraid of her for a short time. That's what I had in planning, except Oriana calls Miranda a murderer and Shepard has a very livid reaction towards Oriana because of this. 

It would depend on the situation and the person who was killed. Oriana may be a bit naive, but she isn't stupid.

[o Ventus]

fiendishchicken wrote...

I like Ventus' story explanation, except I believe TIM isn't actively hunting her (yet) but Miranda has had enough run-ins to be on guard and is also trying to make some noise to get Cerberus off Shepard's back. How do you think that would work with Miranda taking necessary actions to get Cerberus to follow her while buying Shepard the time to get **** done.

When did I do this, and what did I explain?

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...
When did I do this, and what did I explain?

Maybe it was hot_heart? He has been doing a fic that fills in the blanks a bit, and smooths over some of the... errr... rough spots in the ME3 content.

Modifié par flemm, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:14 .

[fiendishchicken]

o Ventus wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

For some reason I see Oriana as being the only person (along with Shepard) where Miranda slightly backs off the professional facade and lets her human side through. I see Oriana as teasing her about her love life and being able to get under Miranda's skin without having to worry about the reprisal.

Agreed, though Jacob is also good friends with Miranda, though I don't think he would get the "family or lover" treatment that Oriana and Shepard get, respectively.

BTW, how does a story element where: Oriana finds out what Miranda does for a living and reacts negatively to it. Imagine that episode of Chuck where Chuck see Sarah kill the Fulcrum agent who found out Chuck was the Intersect while hiding behind a christmas tree. Sarah kills him to protect Chuck, but Chuck becomes afraid of her for a short time. That's what I had in planning, except Oriana calls Miranda a murderer and Shepard has a very livid reaction towards Oriana because of this. 

It would depend on the situation and the person who was killed. Oriana may be a bit naive, but she isn't stupid.

I see her being more open and honest with Jacob as well, but I their relationship is more of a confidant sort of thing. And Jacob is too serious of a guy to really do any if the stated comments. He might casually joke with her about some work related thing (see Ish, who I never found out if he was useful or not. I sold him out to Anto back in ME2 just to get that stupid quest off my journal) but I dont see him as the guy to make a crack about her body or personal life.

As for Oriana, I'm sort of planning her on the stupid, ignorant college kids who pollute my daily life. And here is where I let my bitterness of hippies in. I'm a veteran, and you wouldn't believe how many dumb kids ask me how many people I've killed with my bare-hands (0, Only fired my weapon twice during my deployment) or how many friends were killed or whatnot, and then react with shock when I answer questions honestly. I'm basing Oriana on them to an extent. She's kind smart and has common sense, but is extremely naive and innocent to the ways of the galaxy. Similar to how ME1 Liara was.

[fiendishchicken]

o Ventus wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

I like Ventus' story explanation, except I believe TIM isn't actively hunting her (yet) but Miranda has had enough run-ins to be on guard and is also trying to make some noise to get Cerberus off Shepard's back. How do you think that would work with Miranda taking necessary actions to get Cerberus to follow her while buying Shepard the time to get **** done.

When did I do this, and what did I explain?

Shoot wrong person sorry. Yeah Hot_Heart that's the guy. His story.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I really hate how Redemption was played out. FFS, it's like BiOWare is trying to tell you that you have  to Romance Liara. It's like it's questioning us with this question: "Look how much Liara went through to save you. Why did you choose Miranda over Liara?" I'm trying desperately to come up with an answer, and show that I do not have  to Romance Liara FFS. Just because Liara worked hard to find my body, does not mean that I have to be Romantically Inclined with her.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:26 .

[o Ventus]

fiendishchicken wrote...

I see her being more open and honest with Jacob as well, but I their relationship is more of a confidant sort of thing. And Jacob is too serious of a guy to really do any if the stated comments. He might casually joke with her about some work related thing (see Ish, who I never found out if he was useful or not. I sold him out to Anto back in ME2 just to get that stupid quest off my journal) but I dont see him as the guy to make a crack about her body or personal life.

As for Oriana, I'm sort of planning her on the stupid, ignorant college kids who pollute my daily life. And here is where I let my bitterness of hippies in. I'm a veteran, and you wouldn't believe how many dumb kids ask me how many people I've killed with my bare-hands (0, Only fired my weapon twice during my deployment) or how many friends were killed or whatnot, and then react with shock when I answer questions honestly. I'm basing Oriana on them to an extent. She's kind smart and has common sense, but is extremely naive and innocent to the ways of the galaxy. Similar to how ME1 Liara was.

I dunno. I don't think Jacob would hold himself above a teasing comment to Miranda about her relationship with Shepard. That's just me though.

I think James is a better comparison than ME1 Liara. Liara was certainly naive, but not to the seedy underbelly of the galaxy. She always distanced herself from that. James is the embodiment of naivete. He would be the exemplar if he were a prothean.

[fiendishchicken]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I really hate how Redemption was played out. FFS, it's like BiOWare is trying to tell you that you have  to Romance Liara. It's like it's questioning us with this question: "Why did you choose Miranda over Liara?" I'm trying desperately to come up with an answer, and show that I do not have  to Romance Liara FFS. Just because she worked hard to find my body, does not mean that I have to be Romantically Inclined with her.

Because it has to explain how Shepard's body was recovered by Cerberus, and how Liara was behind it. And, if you want, just headcanon that Liara has a massive, super-stalker 9000 obsession with Shepard (She keep's a piece of the armor he died in framed in her apartment for ****'s sake.) 

[Dr. Doctor]

flemm wrote...

Yet the Cronos log suggests that TIM only wants Leng to attack Miranda if she interferes. So... that's more than a little odd, given what we know from the main dialogues.

It's possible that one area of confusion was what people wanted to see with regard to Miranda's relationship with Cerberus. What they seem to not have figured out, or only belatedly, was that Miranda's ambition, need for a challenge, sense of purpose, etc. was much more important than the question of whether Miranda was still loyal to Cerberus per se or not.
 

TIM's whole "EDI, I'm surprised at you" speech on Cronos really seemed like it was meant for Miranda to me. It makes more sense for him to try to appeal to a woman who's been with Cerberus for her entire adult life and his former second in command than it does to appeal to a ship's AI.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

fiendishchicken wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I really hate how Redemption was played out. FFS, it's like BiOWare is trying to tell you that you have  to Romance Liara. It's like it's questioning us with this question: "Why did you choose Miranda over Liara?" I'm trying desperately to come up with an answer, and show that I do not have  to Romance Liara FFS. Just because she worked hard to find my body, does not mean that I have to be Romantically Inclined with her.

Because it has to explain how Shepard's body was recovered by Cerberus, and how Liara was behind it. And, if you want, just headcanon that Liara has a massive, super-stalker 9000 obsession with Shepard (She keep's a piece of the armor he died in framed in her apartment for ****'s sake.) 

I shouldn't have to head cannon. It's bull**** that this all feels like BioWare is trying to force Liara down our throats. It sucks trying to get her off my back. It's hard to enjoy the Romance you already have while BioWare relentlessly attempts to make you get some blue tail.

[Skullheart]

You can think in this other way: Cerberus would have recovered Shepard's body anyway, with or without Liara. Feron was their agent, they could just send Miranda and Jacob to recover Shepard's body, or Miranda and Leng. Liara isn't as important as you think in recovering Shepard.

Cerberus used Liara because she had more motivation (obsession) than its operatives. She was a tool, nothing more.

Modifié par Skullheart, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:34 .

[fiendishchicken]

o Ventus wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

I see her being more open and honest with Jacob as well, but I their relationship is more of a confidant sort of thing. And Jacob is too serious of a guy to really do any if the stated comments. He might casually joke with her about some work related thing (see Ish, who I never found out if he was useful or not. I sold him out to Anto back in ME2 just to get that stupid quest off my journal) but I dont see him as the guy to make a crack about her body or personal life.

As for Oriana, I'm sort of planning her on the stupid, ignorant college kids who pollute my daily life. And here is where I let my bitterness of hippies in. I'm a veteran, and you wouldn't believe how many dumb kids ask me how many people I've killed with my bare-hands (0, Only fired my weapon twice during my deployment) or how many friends were killed or whatnot, and then react with shock when I answer questions honestly. I'm basing Oriana on them to an extent. She's kind smart and has common sense, but is extremely naive and innocent to the ways of the galaxy. Similar to how ME1 Liara was.

I think James is a better comparison than ME1 Liara. Liara was certainly naive, but not to the seedy underbelly of the galaxy. She always distanced herself from that. James is the embodiment of naivete. He would be the exemplar if he were a prothean.

Well, Liara is the civilian who has no background with violence, or war, or anything. She's an archaeologist who doesn't really care about the going ons of the galaxy and just lives her life in blissful ignorance and then suddenly finds herself caught up in galactic events on Therum.

Vega is the exemplar of the overeager private FNG out of basic who thinks he's a god and shows off to all his friends, claiming he's the Airborne Ranger who killed Osama, but is really just a truck driver or cable dog who spends his pay on his cheap stripper girlfriend with 3 kids who he plans on marrying. sorry more of my bitterness from real life. And Vega isn't that bad of a character, though I think the above is definitely in character for him.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Skullheart wrote...

You can think in this other way: Cerberus would have recovered Shepard's body anyway, with or without Liara. Feron was their agent, they could just send Miranda and Jacob to recover Shepard's body, or Miranda and Leng. Liara isn't as important as you think in recovering Shepard.

Cerberus used Liara because she had more motivation (obsession) than its operatives. She was a tool, nothing more.

I'm not going to Headcannon this. Why did BioWare make it seem like Liara wanted to find you the most. "Liara saved your life, so now you have to fall in love with her." blah blah blah. This makes it sound like I wasn't supposed to Romance Miranda. And who did Shepard Meet first since ME1? This is pressure....

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:38 .

[o Ventus]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Well, Liara is the civilian who has no background with violence, or war, or anything. She's an archaeologist who doesn't really care about the going ons of the galaxy and just lives her life in blissful ignorance and then suddenly finds herself caught up in galactic events on Therum.

Vega is the exemplar of the overeager private FNG out of basic who thinks he's a god and shows off to all his friends, claiming he's the Airborne Ranger who killed Osama, but is really just a truck driver or cable dog who spends his pay on his cheap stripper girlfriend with 3 kids who he plans on marrying. sorry more of my bitterness from real life. And Vega isn't that bad of a character, though I think the above is definitely in character for him.

Actually, Liara notes in ME1 how often she has to defend herself from mercs or wildlife. She isn't a stranger to violence, but war isn't her fortè.

Ok, Vega is an idiot, but he isn't THAT stupid. He boasts, but it's always come off in a more playful manner (Hay guiz, I hatched a baby Harvester and rode it like a horsey!) than legitimately dudebro. He has his moments of humility too.

[jtav]

At that point, Miranda doesn't care about Shepard. Redemption is a fairly bad comic, but Liara is the more interesting protagonist here, and it sets up her later SB arc. Liara always likes you, but you aren't compelled to romance her any more than you're forced to romance Miranda, who has some non-obvious flirt triggers in ME2 and who's non-romance dialogue is almost as romantic as the real thing.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Yeah, but I DON'T see that ****. I don't see Miri as Forced. Understand? Because I started out with ME2. Miranda was MY Personal Choice for LI before I even played the damn Series. I wanted ME2 ASAP.

It's like BioWare is trying to tell us that we apparently stabbed Liara in the back by Romancing an ME2 Character instead of Liara after what happened in Redemption.

Look, Liara, I know you went to help save me and all, and I appreciate it,  but this does NOT  mean that I have to go back to ME1 and grab you on the ass and become your "Bond Mate" to show gratitude, not even in ME3.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[flemm]

Can we skip directly to the part where you reaffirm that Miri is your one and only Love Interest after much inner conflict and soul-searching?

Modifié par flemm, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:55 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

flemm wrote...

Can we skip directly to the part where you reaffirm that Miri is your one and only Love Interest after much inner conflict and soul-searching?

I'm just trying to get things off my chest. I'm trying to come up with a good answer explaining why having Miri as My ONLY  Love Interest fits for me, both Preferably, AND  Personally.

Maybe I'm thinking TOO  much on it?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .