82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

hot_heart wrote...

Does anyone feel that Vasir confrontation was left a little too isolated from the rest of the mission/game?

"You're just as bad, Shepard."
"Nu uh! No, I'm not!"
"Whatever." *dies*

I was very much disappointed that in the end, I couldn't shoot her in the face. Repeatedly.  And maybe get that infinite ammo gun from the beam run and just keep unloading until I get bored. Seriously. Until the holokid came along I never before wanted a collection of pixels to burn in a fire and die horribly as much as I did Vasir. But no, they force Shepard to just stand there as she dies. Sad.

That should've tipped me off that more disappointment was in store:lol:

[Xilizhra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

Does anyone feel that Vasir confrontation was left a little too isolated from the rest of the mission/game?

"You're just as bad, Shepard."
"Nu uh! No, I'm not!"
"Whatever." *dies*

I was very much disappointed that in the end, I couldn't shoot her in the face. Repeatedly.  And maybe get that infinite ammo gun from the beam run and just keep unloading until I get bored. Seriously. Until the holokid came along I never before wanted a collection of pixels to burn in a fire and die horribly as much as I did Vasir. But no, they force Shepard to just stand there as she dies. Sad.

That should've tipped me off that more disappointment was in store:lol:

Uh, why? Because her fight mechanics were annoying? I actually wanted to save her; it didn't seem in character for my Shepard to just let her bleed to death.

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...
To an apparently stereotype-fulfilling yahg, all that means the same thing, just with prettier and less necessary words. Yahg culture would see every race as vying for dominance as their primary activity, and anyone being so committed to one race as being focused on that race's dominance because... why else would you be fighting for them?

There are two separate questions at this point. The original one: is this description of Miranda's motives accurate? Secondly: does it make sense that a stereotype-fulfilling Yagh might perceive Miranda's motives in this way?

To the first question: it is not an accurate description, unless we attribute a much more nuanced meaning to the expression "human dominance" than one would habitually associate with it.

To the second question: sure, the Shadowbroker Yagh might make this mistake/faulty assumption.

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
Uh, why? Because her fight mechanics were annoying? I actually wanted to save her; it didn't seem in character for my Shepard to just let her bleed to death.

Ugh. Save her? Save her for Reapification maybe. It wasn't in character for my Shepard either. My Shepard would've emptied his gun in her face. I would've asked for an extra clip.

Everything about her infuriated me. The fight mechanics were a part of it but not the whole story.

[Xilizhra]

To the first question: it is not an accurate description, unless we attribute a much more nuanced meaning to the expression "human dominance" than one would habitually associate with it.

Recall that the Shadow Broker isn't a Miranda fan and has no need to add justifying nuance to Miranda's character in her dossier intro blurb.

Ugh. Save her? Save her for Reapification maybe. It wasn't in character
for my Shepard either. My Shepard would've emptied his gun in her face. I would've asked for an extra clip.

Everything about her infuriated me. The fight mechanics were a part of it but not the whole story.

What else? "Pureblooded ****" would have pissed off my Shepard, to be sure...

Modifié par Xilizhra, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:03 .

[jtav]

And the second question is a bit moot since the dossier information is for player benefit.

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...
Recall that the Shadow Broker isn't a Miranda fan and has no need to add justifying nuance to Miranda's character in her dossier intro blurb.

Irrelevant to the question of whether it's an accurate description or not.

What you describe is a (plausible) reason for its innaccuracy.

[Xilizhra]

flemm wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Recall that the Shadow Broker isn't a Miranda fan and has no need to add justifying nuance to Miranda's character in her dossier intro blurb.

Irrelevant to the question of whether it's an accurate description or not.

What you describe is a (plausible) reason for its innaccuracy.

I would consider it accurate from a certain point of view. My argument is that the Shadow Broker has not entered incorrect information; yours seems to be that it's a disservice to Miranda's character to view her this way. Which, if it is... well, okay.

[hot_heart]

Yeah, I think you guys are arguing the same point?

It's 'within character' in terms of how the SB might perceive/interpret the information, but not entirely accurate. Only people who get close to her see that other side.

And while, I'm here. Shameless plug/extract on how I interpret Miranda's motivations.

The galactic-upheaval of the genophage had gone a long way towards cementing my initial belief in Cerberus. This was something that had happened long before humanity had even encountered other races. And what had we done on arrival? Initiated a vicious conflict with the turians. What if they had enlisted the salarians to sterilise us? While I respected the work of the STG, we needed to be prepared for all eventualities. The council races made for dangerous bullies.

Modifié par hot_heart, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:10 .

[flemm]

hot_heart wrote...
It's 'within character' in terms of how the SB might perceive/interpret the information, but not entirely accurate. Only people who get close to her see that other side.

As a subjective view or interpretation, i.e. an expression of the Yagh's point of view, it makes sense.

It cannot be understood as objectively accurate, though.

Something along those lines.

[Xilizhra]

I don't know. I don't think Miranda would have any problem with humans being politically the overlords of the galaxy akin to the Protheans.

[hot_heart]

Well, we know Miranda appreciates other cultures and some kind of competition/challenge, as well as dislikes 'controlling' someone's life. I don't think being galactic overlords meshes with that entirely.

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't know. I don't think Miranda would have any problem with humans being politically the overlords of the galaxy akin to the Protheans.

Well, I don't know either

Identifying such and such a view as subjective doesn't deny that it may have some merit, and it isn't a way of saying that it shouldn't be discussed.

Merely that it is... subjective, or a certain interpretation. That is all.

In this case, I don't think there is very strong support for the idea in terms of what Miranda actually says and does. But... as a potential future for the character? Or an alternate view or something? Maybe.

Modifié par flemm, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:32 .

[MisterJB]

This could be an interesting topic.
In ME2, Miranda has a very domineering personality to the extreme where she was willing to destroy Shepard's freedom. But, beyond that, she expects to be in charge because she is, objectivelly, the more qualified, is confortable giving orders and expects them to be followed which is not unresonable in a military ship carrying a mission to save humanity but could also be seen as a subtle influence from her father that Miranda herself would not admit.

However, in ME3, Miranda has acknowledged the certain hypocrisy of wishing to put a Control Chip in Shepard's brain. But how would this affect, if at all, her domineering personality?

Modifié par MisterJB, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:44 .

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...

This could be an interesting topic.
In ME2, Miranda has a very domineering personality to the extreme where she was willing to destroy Shepard's freedom. But, beyond that, she expects to be in charge because she is, objectivelly, the more qualified, is confortable giving orders and expects them to be followed which is not unresonable in a military ship carrying a mission to save humanity but could also be seen as a subtle influence from her father that Miranda herself would not admit.

However, in ME3, Miranda has acknowledged the certain hypocrisy of wishing to put a Control Chip in Shepard's brain. But how would this affect, if at all, her domineering personality?

She's beginning to understand that her need for control stems from her childhood and having none under her father's rule?

/psych-talk:lol:

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[MisterJB]

I wouldn't say Miranda has a need to be in control. She expects to be because her genetic engineering makes her the most qualified for most situations. After Shepard has proven himself, she has no problem following his orders

[CrutchCricket]

I think it goes deeper than chain of command. Leading on a job is one thing. But in terms of personal connections, yeah I can see a need to control. Not quite in a control-freak kind of way but something's there.

[fiendishchicken]

o Ventus wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Sorry but the Illusive Man runs circles around the Shadow Broker. I doubt even the Shadow Broker knows TIM's real name. That name belongs to the Reapers now.

And TIM would be non-chalantly impressed with them finding his name, and make a quip about them being resourceful.

TIM definitely doesn't run circles around the Broker. Remember, the Broker had Wilson infiltrate Cerberus for an indeterminate amount of time before Lazarus. Neither TIM nor the Broker act against one another because they both know it's mutually beneficial to both parties to act as allies from time to time instead of openly hostile. Even then in an all out war between the two, I think the Broker still has the edge. The Broker has always had his own private army and sleeper agents planted into nearly every galactic organization, public or otherwise (Cerberus included), Cerberus (Before becoming space n**is) was comprised of 12 cells and employed around ~150 operatives.

The SB I was referring too was the Blue Pet, not the useful one. If I were Shepard I would have said on LotSB, "how much are you willing to pay me to turn my gun on Liara?"

And as for operatives, I'd say that number is innacurate, and there are a lot more than 150 employee's of Cerberus. I think there may only be 150 high level operatives  (Miranda's caliber) within Cerberus, and they are all divided up into the 12 cells. And I like to think there was more to the Illusive Man than even anyone, including Miranda and the original SB knows. I wouldn't trust TIM with jar of vaseline and a cucumber, but I sure respect and admire the man, even believe in him to a certain extent. So that's just me, but I think TIM is a lot more informed than he lets on. 

As for my dream team, its the ME2 team minus Jack and Tali, with Kaidan and Javik switched in there place and Vega is tacked on.

 Commander John Shepard, Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Paragade, Soldier

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:27 .

[Ieldra]

hot_heart wrote...
Well, we know Miranda appreciates other cultures and some kind of competition/challenge, as well as dislikes 'controlling' someone's life. I don't think being galactic overlords meshes with that entirely.

I think Miranda would have no problem with humanity being the galaxy's primary superpower. In fact, she might work towards that goal. But she wouldn't want to see other cultures assimilated like in the Prothean empire.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
I wouldn't say Miranda has a need to be in control. She expects to be because her genetic engineering makes her the most qualified for most situations. After Shepard has proven himself, she has no problem following his orders

She likes to be in control though. She's an alpha female after all. There's always that challenging undercurrent in their relationship.

[wright1978]

MisterJB wrote...

This could be an interesting topic.
In ME2, Miranda has a very domineering personality to the extreme where she was willing to destroy Shepard's freedom. But, beyond that, she expects to be in charge because she is, objectivelly, the more qualified, is confortable giving orders and expects them to be followed which is not unresonable in a military ship carrying a mission to save humanity but could also be seen as a subtle influence from her father that Miranda herself would not admit.

However, in ME3, Miranda has acknowledged the certain hypocrisy of wishing to put a Control Chip in Shepard's brain. But how would this affect, if at all, her domineering personality?

Well she still apparently rallies a group of Cerberus renegades and i don't really her following anyone other than Shep whom she trusts. No doubt there are a few moments of doubt in her own judgement given she had such trust in TIM and that proved ill advised.

[hot_heart]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I think Miranda would have no problem with humanity being the galaxy's primary superpower. In fact, she might work towards that goal. But she wouldn't want to see other cultures assimilated like in the Prothean empire.

Pretty much what I think.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

fiendishchicken wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Maybe I'm thinking TOO  much on it?

Maybe you just need a break from Mass Effect for awhile.

Miri was my Choice before I bought ME2

That sounds like you were basing your romance completely off her looks alone. You shallow bastard.

Wrong! Don't assume ****! I watched youtube videos showing Playthroughs of ME2. It was NOT just her looks! Put your assumptions somewhere else!!<_<

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 juillet 2012 - 05:09 .

[Dr. Doctor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

hot_heart wrote...
Well, we know Miranda appreciates other cultures and some kind of competition/challenge, as well as dislikes 'controlling' someone's life. I don't think being galactic overlords meshes with that entirely.

I think Miranda would have no problem with humanity being the galaxy's primary superpower. In fact, she might work towards that goal. But she wouldn't want to see other cultures assimilated like in the Prothean empire.

The Alliance News Network blog post about Cerberus sums things up pretty well:

“There has always been a segment of the human population that believes the Council government is lying to them,” said one agent. “Cerberus exploits that fear.” A confiscated recruitment video included in the report states the Cerberus mentality plainly: “Other species may talk with us, trade with us, even live with us, but when a crisis comes, we are on our own.” 

Of course Cerberus isn't too far off. Eden Prime got written off as a "human problem"  and the same thing happened when the Collectors started abducting human colonists.

[AmazingEggplant]

 What do people who romance Miranda call themselves?

Tali has Talimancers, Jack has Jackolytes...