82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr. Doctor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Vertigo:
LOL. Kai Leng must be one of the most ridiculed antagonists in video game history. Not that he doesn't deserve it, but I wonder if he hadn't come across as less ridiculous without ME:Deception. I'm still scratching my head about how that got past the editors.

The new N7 Slayer vanguard for multiplayer looks like Kai Leng.



His armor shall be pink and he will be fabulous.

jtav wrote...

And Miranda's attitude, while IC, didn't help. My attitude is "Would you both just shut up?"

Normandy still lonely. And I know all my old friends except Miranda will die. She and Traynor are pretty much all my poor Colonist has left. So Miranda becomes the temptress figure in a way BW didn't intend: she's the only thing making him hesitate to jump in the beam. The romance singlehandedly transforms the end from suicide to sacrifice. It's so brutally unfair that he has to give such a good thing up.

 

I miss Gardner, and the conversations between Rolston and Goldstein in the Crew Quarters. Plus Crewman Patel's "Don't worry, Shepard and Lawson are on it" line right after you board the SR2 for the first time is one of my favorites.  ME3 just gives us Campbell and Westmoreland both of which deserve a trip out the airlock.

[Arivael]

CrutchCricket wrote...

[

Arivael wrote...
Not quite wrong but if a reaper went rouge it throws the reliability of the control ending out the window.

That's not really a concern for me. I mean yes I can totally see Bioware sabotaging control so they can push their precious green ****.  But "a Reaper may be out of your control" is really not much of a problem to one who a) still controls the majority of the Reapers and (and this is the important one) has limitless techonological possibilities. Hell my headcanon already precludes Reapers "rebelling":sick: and I thought of it way before this Leviathan nonsense. But of course there are plenty of idiots on these boards and elesewhere who can only see the **** in front of them and who'll chortle in self satisfaction as they keep pointing out this inane "downside" over and over. And Bioware will be free to push their little green land of happiness and chocolates....I really should stick to not giving a **** beyond my own satisfaction.

Not much of a conceren for me since I am of the opinion that destroy is the only option anyway, just though it was worth pointing out how it adds to the argumeant that control is a bad choice because it can come back to bite you, as for the danger of a single reaper going rouge, well since the codex says one of the capital ships is equal to three dreadnought even if you can send the rest of the reapers to stop it, the damage it could inflict before hand would still be massive.

MisterJB wrote...

Miranda is someone who sees a good side to Cerberus. Subject Zero found something she tought was indefensible and probrably wanted to gloat to Miranda's face.
It backfired because there was evidence Cerberus had not approved of Pragia's treatment of the biotic children and Miranda used that to free Cerberus of all responsability or Miranda simply did not believe the Cerberus she supports would ever torture children. Jack then presented the intelligent argument of "chair throwing".

Well feels like a good time to drop my opinion on how Shepard should have delt with that fight:

Shepard: Miranda whether they went rouge is irrelervent Cerberus still set them up, supported them and let this happen by giving the wrong people to much power and not enough oversite and it can't escape its responcibility for what happened there.
Jack what was done to you was unforgivable but Miranda had nothing to do with its so don't take it out on her.
Now both of you know whats at stake here and the risks you both need to stay focused and not let the past intefear.

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...
Yes, God forbid Bioware proves preconceptions wrong and introduces different aspects that must be taken into account when discussing the Reapers.

The issue here is that, the more the Reapers become "explicable," the more they become, or risk becoming, merely absurd and ridiculous.

That is an actual problem. And it has already happened, essentially, due to the way the endings are written. This Leviathan DLC could make it better... maybe. Or not. But it is legitimately an issue.

It's not a new problem with pop sci-fi. Anyone who has watched Star Trek knows that, in that particular franchise, the reflex to "humanize" everything tends to make every encounter with an alien culture utterly and completely predictable, as this happens every time. What starts out strange and different ends up being "just like us." (The Geth are like this in Mass Effect, but it is the Star Trek template.)

It's the sci-fi equivalent of chicken soup: comfort food, basically. They are not so scary or strange, they are just like us, they want to *be* us, etc. Which isn't to say it is always bad (I am a Star Trek fan). But many times/sometimes, it is better to preserve the strangeness and the alien-ness.

Modifié par flemm, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:25 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Pfft. Good that that Lovecraftian theme was subverted.

The only good thing about an incomprehensible enemy is that there is a mystery to decipher. A rogue Reaper would be another one. I find it utterly incomprehensible why people are so dead set against it. I find it rather fascinating, and it won't invalidate Control, whatever the fanatics say.

I'm sure Miranda would agree with me if she knew the backstory. I mean that it's a fascinating mystery to decipher. 

Yes, God forbid Bioware proves preconceptions wrong and introduces different aspects that must be taken into account when discussing the Reapers.

Indeed. I find it disheartening to see how people stick to that Lovecraftian theme in the face of its complete subversion - which started in ME1, btw.. If the Reapers are controlled (!) by the Catalyst, then it's totally plausible that one might have broken free and developed different preferences than continuing the cycle. It's not ridiculous at all. People are just unwilling to accept new information. I wonder where this attitude comes from "I don't want to understand, I want to kill". Disheartening. Makes me want to play a low EMS Destroy game. Maybe starting over with "intelligent" life isn't such a bad idea after all.

Edit:
I do concede that a rogue Reaper should remain distinctly alien in its perspectives and preferences. That it has gone rogue doesn't mean it must be friendly, or want things we can comprehend.

And now back to Miranda.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:34 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
If the Reapers are controlled (!) by the Catalyst, then it's totally plausible that one might have broken free and developed different preferences than continuing the cycle. It's not ridiculous at all.

That particular piece of it, taken on its own? No.

Ieldra2 wrote...
People are just unwilling to accept new information. I wonder where this attitude comes from "I don't want to understand, I want to kill". Disheartening.

That's probably a mischaracterisation of the attitude

Modifié par flemm, 11 juillet 2012 - 07:24 .

[fiendishchicken]

Ieldra2 wrote...

 I wonder where this attitude comes from "I don't want to understand, I want to kill". Disheartening. Makes me want to play a low EMS Destroy game. Maybe starting over with "intelligent" life isn't such a bad idea after all.

It came from the same place the Reapers logic comes from. Why should we stop and try to make friends with the giant killer spaceships that have proven thus far that their only intent is to wipe us out and use our remains to make another of them. And when questioned about their motives its nothing more than a cryptic, "You cannot understand, we are infinite, you are nothing!" Doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. I'd love to understand the Reapers, but I just 'physically' can't. I'm not meant to understand them. And thus, the only thing I can do is fight back for my own sake, and those of my fellow sapients. 

edit* The Reapers have also shown no inclination to understand us. They are the one's who only want to kill us. 

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 11 juillet 2012 - 08:07 .

[flemm]

fiendishchicken wrote...
"You cannot understand, we are infinite, you are nothing!"

Well, it seems they were wrong about that, on all counts

But I don't think anything good has really come of that revelation.

[LanceSolous13]

o Ventus wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
Seeing as how she could call the Illusive Man anytime she wanted, no.

Even if Jack personally coldn't do it, she could have Jacob or Shepard do it.

Can't threaten to "smear the walls" with a hologram though....

No, but she could prank call him and/or ue his rollover minutes and make his bill go up.

That'll teach him for physically and psychologically tormenting her as a child.

EDI stright up tells you Jack did this, replacing her emails to Mr. Illusive with innapropreate uses of the word cockpit.

Most of Jack's Character Development is just simply growing up. Look at her first meeting. Then look at Mass Effect 3.

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...
@Vertigo:
LOL. Kai Leng must be one of the most ridiculed antagonists in video game history. Not that he doesn't deserve it, but I wonder if he hadn't come across as less ridiculous without ME:Deception. I'm still scratching my head about how that got past the editors.

Weeeell....

twitter.com/CaseyDHudson/status/101362747836604417
"Finished my final review of the ‪#MassEffect‬ Deception novel. A really fun lead-in to ‪#ME3‬! Kai Leng is a badass. January 31 release"

...yeah.

At the end of the book Dietz (the author) thanks Hudson, Walters and Drew for their guidance.

And yes, Kai Leng wouldn't have come across as this rediculous had Drew wrote the book instead of Dietz.  Drew wrote him a lot better in prior novels.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 11 juillet 2012 - 08:37 .

[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
 Kai Leng is a badass.

Well, he certainly is that

A cereal-eating, tutu-wearing, ballet-dansing, vegetable oil-sweating, cheeseburger-making badass

Ieldra2 wrote...
Edit:
I do concede that a rogue Reaper should remain distinctly alien in its perspectives and preferences. That it has gone rogue doesn't mean it must be friendly, or want things we can comprehend.

Well, we'll see how that goes.

Perhaps I should have elaborated on my earlier point about mischaracterizing the attitude. This is a story, and that's how it needs to be analysed and understood. It can be a story where the Reapers are a puzzle that needs to be solved, something the characters gradually learn more about, and that could be a good thing. But... the story isn't told that way. The characters don't solve anything or figure anything out, there is just a big expostion dump at the end.

The fact that some fans can deduce a (somewhat) plausible explanation for what the (not really very coherent) exposition dump contains is... nice, but... doesn't really improve the quality of the narrative at all.

Modifié par flemm, 11 juillet 2012 - 08:45 .

[LanceSolous13]

I haven't read the novels...and likely never will due to ME3...

[CrutchCricket]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I haven't read the novels...and likely never will due to ME3...

They're not bad actually (well the Karpyshyn ones anyway). Had trouble finishing the third one because I had the RGB inflicted on me before I was done. But without that knowledge, they would've been quite enjoyable indeed.

[LanceSolous13]

I know you mean well by saying that, but, my image of Kai Leng, Sexy-Drell Killer, Cut-Scene Incompetence Inducing, Genertic Saturday Morning Cartoon Villan, has been ruined by ME3...

[CrutchCricket]

Kai Leng's only in Retribution (the third one). And he is fairly badass in it.... yeah that feels weird saying it.

[flemm]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I know you mean well by saying that...

Not really

(If it was my comment you were referring to.) I was just making fun of him some more 

Modifié par flemm, 11 juillet 2012 - 08:48 .

[LanceSolous13]

I just realized.....Kai Leng kills my squad from ME2. Thane and Miranda were my ME2 Squad....Both die by Kai Leng's hand in ME3...

*starts sobbing*

[o Ventus]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I just realized.....Kai Leng kills my squad from ME2. Thane and Miranda were my ME2 Squad....Both die by Kai Leng's hand in ME3...

*starts sobbing*

Never talk to Thane and he won't be killed by Kai Leng.

Meet Miranda's survival criteria, and she won't die either.

[o Ventus]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Kai Leng's only in Retribution (the third one). And he is fairly badass in it.... yeah that feels weird saying it.

Deception.

[CrutchCricket]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I just realized.....Kai Leng kills my squad from ME2. Thane and Miranda were my ME2 Squad....Both die by Kai Leng's hand in ME3...

*starts sobbing*

You got Miranda killed?

You monster:crying:

[LanceSolous13]

o Ventus wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I just realized.....Kai Leng kills my squad from ME2. Thane and Miranda were my ME2 Squad....Both die by Kai Leng's hand in ME3...

*starts sobbing*

Never talk to Thane and he won't be killed by Kai Leng.

Meet Miranda's survival criteria, and she won't die either.

His name still appears on the Memorial Wall. He dies regardless.

And, Ok, Miri never dies for me, but still... *sobbing*

*hugs and starts flooding shoulder in tears*

[Td1984]

So did the Derelict Reaper mission with Jack & Miranda. Went perfectly (also no small thanks in part due to my Tech Armor).

[o Ventus]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I just realized.....Kai Leng kills my squad from ME2. Thane and Miranda were my ME2 Squad....Both die by Kai Leng's hand in ME3...

*starts sobbing*

Never talk to Thane and he won't be killed by Kai Leng.

Meet Miranda's survival criteria, and she won't die either.

His name still appears on the Memorial Wall. He dies regardless.

And, Ok, Miri never dies for me, but still... *sobbing*

*hugs and starts flooding shoulder in tears*

His name appears, but he isn't killed by Kai Leng.

I've entertained the idea of never talking to Thane before the coup, so he can die honorably by unnamed Cerberus Trooper #44562 rather than Storm Shadow-- I mean, Kai Leng.

[o Ventus]

Td1984 wrote...

So did the Derelict Reaper mission with Jack & Miranda. Went perfectly (also no small thanks in part due to my Tech Armor).

Miranda and Jack are best for the Derelict Reaper. Jack can pull enemies and Shockwave them, and Miranda can Warp detonate the pulled enemies. Being a Sentinel with Tech Armor just makes it a faceroll.

[LanceSolous13]

Also, That means the Dalatress dies....In a pathetically stupid way. "I'm going to cloak RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM WHILE HE HAS A GUN POINTED AT ME. Nope. Not going to die."

[o Ventus]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Also, That means the Dalatress dies....In a pathetically stupid way. "I'm going to cloak RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM WHILE HE HAS A GUN POINTED AT ME. Nope. Not going to die."

Captain Kirrahe.