82210 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Because the tail is wagging the dog. I don't object to more romance content per se, but I do object to the notion that her not putting the nameplate up was somehow a middle finger. She got content specific to herself that suggests the very traits that made her worth romancing in the first place. The person at the memorial gets no such moment. Beyond that, I'd prefer resources be used for general characterization and worldbuilding. I would not buy a romance DLC.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Because the tail is wagging the dog. I don't object to more romance content per se, but I do object to the notion that her not putting the nameplate up was somehow a middle finger. She got content specific to herself that suggests the very traits that made her worth romancing in the first place. The person at the memorial gets no such moment. Beyond that, I'd prefer resources be used for general characterization and worldbuilding. I would not buy a romance DLC.

The fact that you have to choose between emotional payoff and character development is no less bull**** than missing either.

[o Ventus]

CrutchCricket wrote...

jtav wrote...

Because the tail is wagging the dog. I don't object to more romance content per se, but I do object to the notion that her not putting the nameplate up was somehow a middle finger. She got content specific to herself that suggests the very traits that made her worth romancing in the first place. The person at the memorial gets no such moment. Beyond that, I'd prefer resources be used for general characterization and worldbuilding. I would not buy a romance DLC.

The fact that you have to choose between emotional payoff and character development is no less bull**** than missing either.

You forget, the 2 are mutually exclusive.

[CrutchCricket]

o Ventus wrote...

You forget, the 2 are mutually exclusive.

Only for ME2 characters.

[CEO Fun Buttons]

jtav wrote...

Because the tail is wagging the dog. I don't object to more romance content per se, but I do object to the notion that her not putting the nameplate up was somehow a middle finger. She got content specific to herself that suggests the very traits that made her worth romancing in the first place. The person at the memorial gets no such moment. Beyond that, I'd prefer resources be used for general characterization and worldbuilding. I would not buy a romance DLC.

When I first played through the EC, I didn't really mind all that much to be honest. I was bummed that they didn't incorporate her any more than they did, but I felt that overall it did a good job. I didn't get mad about it until they specifically said that that scene was supposed to be handled by your LI.

It just shows a complete disregard for a large portion of your fanbase, it's not like they somehow forgot that a rather large portion of the romanceable characters weren't on the ship. They simply didn't care, and that willingness to alienate any number of fans that had poured so much time and money into the series just irked me.

[o Ventus]

CEO Fun Buttons wrote...

When I first played through the EC, I didn't really mind all that much to be honest. I was bummed that they didn't incorporate her any more than they did, but I felt that overall it did a good job. I didn't get mad about it until they specifically said that that scene was supposed to be handled by your LI.

It just shows a complete disregard for a large portion of your fanbase, it's not like they somehow forgot that a rather large portion of the romanceable characters weren't on the ship. They simply didn't care, and that willingness to alienate any number of fans that had poured so much time and money into the series just irked me.

For me it was more Jessica Misinformed-izan saying "The ME2 cast receives some love."

Cause, y'know, very slightly variable PowerPoint slides is showing "love" to the ME2 cast.

[RamilVenoard]

CEO Fun Buttons wrote...

jtav wrote...

Because the tail is wagging the dog. I don't object to more romance content per se, but I do object to the notion that her not putting the nameplate up was somehow a middle finger. She got content specific to herself that suggests the very traits that made her worth romancing in the first place. The person at the memorial gets no such moment. Beyond that, I'd prefer resources be used for general characterization and worldbuilding. I would not buy a romance DLC.

When I first played through the EC, I didn't really mind all that much to be honest. I was bummed that they didn't incorporate her any more than they did, but I felt that overall it did a good job. I didn't get mad about it until they specifically said that that scene was supposed to be handled by your LI.

It just shows a complete disregard for a large portion of your fanbase, it's not like they somehow forgot that a rather large portion of the romanceable characters weren't on the ship. They simply didn't care, and that willingness to alienate any number of fans that had poured so much time and money into the series just irked me.

 I agree with this.

@jtav why is it that we can't have both character/universe expansion and development & romance content? Something involved both Jack and Miranda, showing us something new about the universe, their characters and their characters' relationship, and for those of us who are so inclined, added romantic moments with the LI... everyone's happy...

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...

For me it was more Jessica Misinformed-izan saying "The ME2 cast receives some love."

Cause, y'know, very slightly variable PowerPoint slides is showing "love" to the ME2 cast.

Somebody asked if they received some love, and she said "yes," which is true. What should she have said?

The flashback and the epilogue slides were good. I like them. I'm not satisfied with Miranda's role in the game (which I guess comes as no surprise to anyone), and I hope that it is improved (story and romance). But it's going to take something more substantial than could really be included in the EC.

Modifié par flemm, 19 juillet 2012 - 03:18 .

[fiendishchicken]

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

For me it was more Jessica Misinformed-izan saying "The ME2 cast receives some love."

Cause, y'know, very slightly variable PowerPoint slides is showing "love" to the ME2 cast.

Somebody asked if they received some love, and she said "yes," which is true. What should she have said?

The flashback and the epilogue slides were good. I like them. I'm not satisfied with Miranda's role in the game (which I guess comes as no surprise to anyone), and I hope that it is improved (story and romance). But it's going to take something more substantial than could really be included in the EC.

But compared to what the ME1 plus dextro team plus ME3 LI's get, it's like ME2, the game that may well recieve best game of the seventh generation of consoles award seem like an auxiliary sidequest barely worth mentioning. I've come to realize ME3 isn't just a denial to ME2 LI's, but a denial of ME2 overall. It's like Bioware is disappointed by ME2... Oh wait they DID come out and said they were disappointed with ME2.
<_<

[Taboo]

As I said before, once Miss Strahovski is done being chopped to bits on Dexter she'll have some free time.

She was the one that said she was a killer like Dexter. Those are her words.

But I'm not sure that's common knowledge yet...

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 19 juillet 2012 - 03:32 .

[JeffZero]

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

For me it was more Jessica Misinformed-izan saying "The ME2 cast receives some love."

Cause, y'know, very slightly variable PowerPoint slides is showing "love" to the ME2 cast.

Somebody asked if they received some love, and she said "yes," which is true. What should she have said?

The flashback and the epilogue slides were good. I like them. I'm not satisfied with Miranda's role in the game (which I guess comes as no surprise to anyone), and I hope that it is improved (story and romance). But it's going to take something more substantial than could really be included in the EC.

Indeed. The slides are a decent sendoff to the character, but there ought to be more content for her leading up to those slides. 

The more I think about it, the better I feel about our odds. That's not to say I feel confident we'll get more Miranda, because I wouldn't go that far. But I do feel it's at least possible. Lair of the Shadow Broker was built from the ground up in response to some of ME2's more pronounced criticisms. I feel like there could be a DLC in the works that does the same beyond just Extended Cut -- and I know that most ME2 squadmate fans have at least one character they've spoken at length about wanting to see more in the game. That reminds me of the Liara fans during vanilla ME2, and I empathize.

We probably won't get something like, uh, Lair of the Former Cerberus Right Hand, but all those discussions about implementing the character into something like Retake Omega could well wind up somewhere. Similarly for a couple of the other ME2 squadmates.

[JeffZero]

fiendishchicken wrote...

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

For me it was more Jessica Misinformed-izan saying "The ME2 cast receives some love."

Cause, y'know, very slightly variable PowerPoint slides is showing "love" to the ME2 cast.

Somebody asked if they received some love, and she said "yes," which is true. What should she have said?

The flashback and the epilogue slides were good. I like them. I'm not satisfied with Miranda's role in the game (which I guess comes as no surprise to anyone), and I hope that it is improved (story and romance). But it's going to take something more substantial than could really be included in the EC.

But compared to what the ME1 plus dextro team plus ME3 LI's get, it's like ME2, the game that may well recieve best game of the seventh generation of consoles award seem like an auxiliary sidequest barely worth mentioning. I've come to realize ME3 isn't just a denial to ME2 LI's, but a denial of ME2 overall. It's like Bioware is disappointed by ME2... Oh wait they DID come out and said they were disappointed with ME2.
<_<

They just completely wrote themselves into a corner with those Suicide Mission mechanics. Walters in particular has said in several interviews that the writers took a leap of faith there and only after the game went gold did they realize they didn't really have any support structure in mind. So they scribbled a plethora of things down for how to handle it -- the leaked data files show us what could have happened if the game had more time, money and bigger Xbox 360 disc space. But the reality of all three games' production, and indeed most games' stories, is that there was not quite that much time, money, nor disc space. So what we have now is the "answer".

I'm cool with that answer for some squadmates. I'm even absolutely in love with some of those answers -- Mordin in particular has such an ace sendoff. But I'd really like a second opinion on Miranda.

[Taboo]

Well, both Miranda and Jack have weapon slots, for what it's worth.

And voice acting isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then again I can actually see Walters doing a Liara DLC.

Dead serious.

[JeffZero]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, both Miranda and Jack have weapon slots, for what it's worth.

And voice acting isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then again I can actually see Walters doing a Liara DLC.

Dead serious.

Ah hell, so could I.

"Return of the Lair of the Shadow Broker"

[flemm]

fiendishchicken wrote...
But compared to what the ME1 plus dextro team plus ME3 LI's get, it's like ME2, the game that may well recieve best game of the seventh generation of consoles award seem like an auxiliary sidequest barely worth mentioning. I've come to realize ME3 isn't just a denial to ME2 LI's, but a denial of ME2 overall. It's like
Bioware is disappointed by ME2... Oh wait they DID come out and said they were disappointed with ME2.

I think you're just overdosing a bit on the bitterness lately. ME2 is one of the best-produced, most highly-rated games ever.

Casey Hudson: "Mass Effect 2 was really a triumph of game development. On time, on budget, and exceeding quality goals. And we did this despite some major challenges that couldn’t have been foreseen."

Part of what you're picking up on is just the way they try to improve on prior games and hype them on the backs of their predecessors.

CH: "I mean firstly, Mass Effect 2 is just a much better game than Mass Effect in virtually every way. We've made a lot of improvements, such that I think it'll have a broader audience and broader appeal. [...] To support that, obviously we needed to make sure it's a game people can jump into knowing nothing about the Mass Effect universe, or even that there was a first game."

Which might as well be a verbatim transcript of the type of thing they were saying prior to the release of ME3.

Modifié par flemm, 19 juillet 2012 - 03:55 .

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, both Miranda and Jack have weapon slots, for what it's worth.

And voice acting isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then again I can actually see Walters doing a Liara DLC.

Dead serious.

On the plus side, Walters, as far has been confirmed, isn't being let anywhere near DLC. Same with Hudson. They're being kept on the sidelines for other projects. 

And as for Strahovski being chopped up... Sad face.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, both Miranda and Jack have weapon slots, for what it's worth.

And voice acting isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then again I can actually see Walters doing a Liara DLC.

Dead serious.

He better not go that ****ing low! <_<

[JeffZero]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, both Miranda and Jack have weapon slots, for what it's worth.

And voice acting isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then again I can actually see Walters doing a Liara DLC.

Dead serious.

On the plus side, Walters, as far has been confirmed, isn't being let anywhere near DLC. Same with Hudson. They're being kept on the sidelines for other projects. 

And as for Strahovski being chopped up... Sad face.

This Walters/Hudson no-no stuff keeps popping up, but I've yet to see a source for it. I'm not saying I don't trust you or anything, but I don't trust the idea in general without some more concrete proof. Since I'm here in friendly Miranda thread territory again tonight, I'll go ahead and ask -- where did you hear this? I'm trying to isolate the origin.

[Taboo]

Miss Strahovski said it not me.

Those are her words.

It's just not common knowledge.

Shhh. Be quiet.

[CEO Fun Buttons]

JeffZero wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, both Miranda and Jack have weapon slots, for what it's worth.

And voice acting isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then again I can actually see Walters doing a Liara DLC.

Dead serious.

Ah hell, so could I.

"Return of the Lair of the Shadow Broker"

"Lair of the Shadow Broker: the Shadow Broker Rides Again"

Both Miranda and Jack have connections to Cerberus, and Cerberus does have control of Omega, and both Miranda and Jack would want to take it down...

Just trying to stay positive, hahah

[flemm]

JeffZero wrote...

This Walters/Hudson no-no stuff keeps
popping up, but I've yet to see a source for it. I'm not saying I don't
trust you or anything, but I don't trust the idea in general without
some more concrete proof. Since I'm here in friendly Miranda thread
territory again tonight, I'll go ahead and ask -- where did you hear this? I'm trying to isolate the origin.

Well, personally, I've never heard that they're not involved. I do think Mike Gamble is the producer for DLC (but he has been in the past as well). And apparently Weekes and Dombrow headed up the EC. But... it would surprise me if Walters and Hudson were not still involved. Maybe not as directly, or maybe mostly behind-the-scenes, I guess, since they don't have a lot of cred with fans right now.

Of course, maybe there is some piece of news that I haven't heard.

Modifié par flemm, 19 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Yvonne, chopped in Dexter?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 19 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .

[Taboo]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Yvonne, chopped in Dexter?

Well she said that she was a killer like Dexter.

But that hasn't hit the airwaves yet so be quiet.

And you didn't hear that from me.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 19 juillet 2012 - 04:07 .

[JeffZero]

CEO Fun Buttons wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, both Miranda and Jack have weapon slots, for what it's worth.

And voice acting isn't as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then again I can actually see Walters doing a Liara DLC.

Dead serious.

Ah hell, so could I.

"Return of the Lair of the Shadow Broker"

"Lair of the Shadow Broker: the Shadow Broker Rides Again"

Both Miranda and Jack have connections to Cerberus, and Cerberus does have control of Omega, and both Miranda and Jack would want to take it down...

Just trying to stay positive, hahah

I often daydream on my long bus rides back home from college. Beats the pants off of dealing with the bulk of my fellow passengers. Not a fun route.

Anyway, tonight I started thinking about how to implement some of the ME2-introduced squadmates as self-contained "war assets" of sorts regarding Omega and only Omega. When Aria makes her case and somehow convinces Shepard to be the tip of her Retake Omega spear, she asks him/her to bring whatever they've got and details various things which will need to be dealt with, a la Kasumi explaining how to crack Hock's vault but on a bigger, bloodier scale.

There are default ways to handle these things, but there are also highlighted, superior ways to handle them by choosing the assistance of Miranda, Jack and her students, Kasumi's ninja skillz, Zaeed's mercenaries for a distraction and Jacob's... I'm still working on that part.

Programming short-but-sweet cutscenes for those things could work. Miranda and Jack would get the bonus of having some impact on a showdown with Oleg Petrovsky, as well. Miranda might have history with Petrovsky -- maybe she worked under him at one point. That could help at the bargaining table for players who are trying to forge a delicate truce between Aria and Petrovsky in the wake of a major adjutant outbreak or something.

Each of the ME2-introduced sidelined squadmates would only be options so long as the player has done their missions already, although in Miranda's case since her tale is more ongoing (thankfully) it could probably allow her to join in the fun pre-Horizon.

[JeffZero]

flemm wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

This Walters/Hudson no-no stuff keeps
popping up, but I've yet to see a source for it. I'm not saying I don't
trust you or anything, but I don't trust the idea in general without
some more concrete proof. Since I'm here in friendly Miranda thread
territory again tonight, I'll go ahead and ask -- where did you hear this? I'm trying to isolate the origin.

Well, personally, I've never heard that they're not involved. I do think Mike Gamble is the producer for DLC (but he has been in the past as well). And apparently Weekes and Dombrow headed up the EC. But... it would surprise me if Walters and Hudson were not still involved. Maybe not as directly, or maybe mostly behind-the-scenes, I guess, since they don't have a lot of cred with fans right now.

Of course, maybe there is some piece of news that I haven't heard.

Yeah, exactly.

I have noticed that Mac Walters hasn't posted any twitter updates since May, and that was a single thank-you to a positive fan. Before that, his last posts were in March, heh. But then, he was never the most active dev on twitter, so eh.