82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I find this "There can be only one" philosophy annoying. Just because people don't like the idea of (insert LI) being with someone else, they make these absolute declarations that there can be no one else as special as Shepard. Bah. If Shepard dies and Miranda survives, she'll eventually move on. Everything else would be mentally unhealthy.

I'm tempted to write a story where Miranda is happy with someone else just to make the point.

Well that's a declaration I happen to agree with. Unless we one-up the Reapers and introduce some other galactic menace that threatens to kill everyone and their cat, no one's going to be as awesome as Shepard.

This however does not exclude the possibility of Miranda or other LIs moving on and of other relationships down the line if Shepard's dead.

Personally I see Miranda burying herself in her work. She'll have flings but nothing serious. Doesn't mean she mourns Shepard for the rest of her life and it doesn't mean she neglects her needs that way.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Well that's a declaration I happen to agree with. Unless we one-up the Reapers and introduce some other galactic menace that threatens to kill everyone and their cat, no one's going to be as awesome as Shepard.

What if I roleplay a Shepard who isn't that awesome? I don't know... I guess I've never seen Shepard as enough of a distinct character to really think there is only one right answer to this question.



http://johntesh.devi...on-38-296526478

Modifié par flemm, 27 juillet 2012 - 03:49 .

[Ieldra]

@CrutchCricket:
What I object to is the notion that no relationship can be as good as the one with Shepard. Nothing else. Shepard's awesomeness does not rule out Miranda's future possible happiness with someone else.

Also, what flemm said.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juillet 2012 - 03:54 .

[Taboo]

I think you're missing...the point here. No one said that she is incapable of moving on or finding someone else.

It's the capacity for the relationship to grow and prosper with the first person she connected with romantically.

You also need to remember not everyone is jumping into the Synthesis beam.

I think I'll write something just to counter your point even though I was planning on doing it anyway.

And I'll fill it with so many non de-script musical references you'll have no idea what's going on.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:40 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...

What if I roleplay a Shepard who isn't that awesome? I don't know... I guess I've never seen Shepard as enough of a distinct character to really think there is only one right answer to this question.

I don't think you can. At least not in the way you mean.

I mean you can be an idealist or a douchebag but you have no choice in saving the galaxy. And if you do roleplay as being in love with Miranda and you do the romance proper, then yes you are that awesome.

If you don't romance her or cheat on her, then clearly none of this applies.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@CrutchCricket:
What I object to is the notion that no relationship can be as good as the one with Shepard. Nothing else. Shepard's awesomeness does not rule out Miranda's future possible happiness with someone else.

And Miranda's future possible happiness is not mutually excusive with "no one's as good as Shepard".

Even if you were to agree that the Miranda and Shepard relationship is "the best", that does not rule out her finding happiness with someone "very, very good"

So we're really not at odds here.

[MisterJB]

Mr Massakka wrote...
Not that it would be important: Even if the Reapers have their way of moving it, that doesn't change the fact that it's ****** poor writing: "They moved the Citadel to Earth as soon as they heard about the Crucible".  

Sure, it's a great idea to move it to Earth! [i]That planet that will soon be attacked by all of the galaxies' forces is probably the best place to defend it! 

How is it ****** poor writing? The only reason Sol was invaded by all of the galaxie's forces was exactly because the Citadel had been moved there. The result would have been the same had they moved it anywhere else, except the resistance could have been even stronger.
Earth was the very hearth of Reaper territory at the time. The batarian and salarian neighbours were either destroyed or hiding, the Alliance fleet had abandoned the planet in order to build the Crucible and there were more Reapers there, including Harbinger, than anywhere in the galaxy. It made perfect sense to move the Citadel there.

Modifié par MisterJB, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:40 .

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I think you're missing...the point here. No one said that she is incapable of moving on or finding someone else.

It's the capacity for the relationship to grow and prosper with the first person she connected with romantically.

You also need to remember not everyone is jumping into the Synthesis beam.

I think I'll write something just to counter your point even though I was planning on doing it anyway.

And I'll fill it with so many non de-script musical references you'll have no idea what's going on.

I'm not jumping into the synthesis beam. And I believe Miranda could find happiness with another but she won't because Shepard WILL be there if she is there. Miranda is stuck with Shepard whether she like it or not for me. The time she doesn't end up with Shepard is if she's dead, and since that's not happening in any of my playthroughs, Shepard chooses to live and be with her. 

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
Not that it would be important: Even if the Reapers have their way of moving it, that doesn't change the fact that it's ****** poor writing: "They moved the Citadel to Earth as soon as they heard about the Crucible".  

Sure, it's a great idea to move it to Earth! [i]That planet that will soon be attacked by all of the galaxies' forces is probably the best place to defend it! 

How is it ****** poor writing? The only reason Sol was invaded by all of the galaxie's forces was exactly because the Citadel had been moved there. The result would have been the same had they moved it anywhere else, except the resistance could have been even stronger.
Earth was the very hearth of Reaper territory at the time. The batarian and salarian neighbours were either destroyed or hiding, the Alliance fleet had abandoned the planet in order to build the Crucible and there were more Reapers there, including Harbinger, than anywhere in the galaxy. It made perfect sense to move the Citadel there.

agreed

[Taboo]

fiendishchicken wrote...
I'm not jumping into the synthesis beam. And I believe Miranda could find happiness with another but she won't because Shepard WILL be there if she is there. Miranda is stuck with Shepard whether she like it or not for me. The time she doesn't end up with Shepard is if she's dead, and since that's not happening in any of my playthroughs, Shepard chooses to live and be with her. 

I made a blog post about it. Deal with it haters!

But yeah, the Destroy slide kind of tells you about Miranda's feelings on the matter. The symbolsim couldn't be more apparent.

He's going to find her and whatever comes next is up to you.

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
How is it ****** poor writing? The only reason Sol was invaded by all of the galaxie's forces was exactly because the Citadel had been moved there. The result would have been the same had they moved it anywhere else, except the resistance could have been even stronger.
Earth was the very hearth of Reaper territory at the time. The batarian and salarian neighbours were either destroyed or hiding, the Alliance fleet had abandoned the planet in order to build the Crucible and there were more Reapers there, including Harbinger, than anywhere in the galaxy. It made perfect sense to move the Citadel there.

Oh you mean instead of leaving it in the Serpent Nebula where it can only be reched through the relays (which they control and should have shut down)?

[wright1978]

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

To be honest I don't see her having a relationship as strong as the one she has with Shepard with anyone else.

Agreed.

Yeah I have no doubt Miranda or my Shep for that matter would find someone else in the event that either one died. Agree with you though that while future relationships might very well be loving and fulfilling it wouldn't quite be the same.

[fiendishchicken]

CrutchCricket wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
How is it ****** poor writing? The only reason Sol was invaded by all of the galaxie's forces was exactly because the Citadel had been moved there. The result would have been the same had they moved it anywhere else, except the resistance could have been even stronger.
Earth was the very hearth of Reaper territory at the time. The batarian and salarian neighbours were either destroyed or hiding, the Alliance fleet had abandoned the planet in order to build the Crucible and there were more Reapers there, including Harbinger, than anywhere in the galaxy. It made perfect sense to move the Citadel there.

Oh you mean instead of leaving it in the Serpent Nebula where it can only be reched through the relays (which they control and should have shut down)?

The fact the reapers DIDN'T shut down the relays was ****** poor writing right there.
Instead of letting all our enemies combine all their forces and make a single coordinated attack, how about we just shut down the relays isolating them from each other and then attacking each individual fleet in force?
Anti-climatic but, logical enough.

[fiendishchicken]

wright1978 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

To be honest I don't see her having a relationship as strong as the one she has with Shepard with anyone else.

Agreed.

Yeah I have no doubt Miranda or my Shep for that matter would find someone else in the event that either one died. Agree with you though that while future relationships might very well be loving and fulfilling it wouldn't quite be the same.

Well theoretically, Miranda (at least imo) would have a child and that's where her love would go if Shepard died. If Miranda died, Shepard wouldn't move on to another love, he''d stay alone and focus his energies on rebuilding the galaxy. But that's in theory for me. Either they both live to reunite with each other, or they both die to be reunited in death.

[Taboo]

Because the war is over they're going to have a lot to say to each other.

There's still a lot that needs to be said and done in that regard.

I'm beginning to like the concept of Miranda taking Shepard away for a year or so to help him recover.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:02 .

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
I'm not jumping into the synthesis beam. And I believe Miranda could find happiness with another but she won't because Shepard WILL be there if she is there. Miranda is stuck with Shepard whether she like it or not for me. The time she doesn't end up with Shepard is if she's dead, and since that's not happening in any of my playthroughs, Shepard chooses to live and be with her. 

I made a blog post about it. Deal with it haters!

But yeah, the Destroy slide kind of tells you about Miranda's feelings on the matter. The symbolsim couldn't be more apparent.

He's going to find her and whatever comes next is up to you.

I'm suprised this is being discussed at all.  I'm doing my second miranda playthrough, and she's pretty clear about her feelings for Shepard and just how committed to him she is (the line about wanting to break in where he was being held was funny and just SO Miranda.  She shoulda done it...).  Plus, I mean, if you meta game, you can really see just how attached to him she is (the breakup scene is literally the worst thing to watch in the game.).

Then, the "find me" scene is quite probably one of the best LI moments, and easily the best for all of the non-squaddie LI's.  It's so clear that she does love Shep, and it's not just some stupid hormone thing.

In summary: I agree with Tabs, Shep will find Miranda (or she'll find him).

[Taboo]

^ SOOOOO MANY FEELS BRO.

She really cares about him. That break up scene is just...devastating.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:05 .

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Oh you mean instead of leaving it in the Serpent Nebula where it can only be reched through the relays (which they control and should have shut down)?

Because Sol can be reached through any way other than the Relays?
The Serpent Nebula is positioned right in the middle of the Relay Network. There are dozens of Relays nearby, which means reinforcements from any part of the galaxy can be there in minutes (Mass Effect: Revelation).
But, of course, this works both ways. So, either the Reapers keep only a small contigent there to protect it and risk the races of the galaxy using the Crucible before reinforcements can arrive or they reallocate a great number of their forces to the Citadel in antecipation to the final battle which would, invariably, mean reducing the number of Reapers Harvesting conquered homeworlds and putting the pressure on those yet to be conquered which could lead to the races retaking Earth.

So, it makes sense to move it to the orbit of the planet they were most focused on at the moment. That way, they can protect it and continue the Harvest. Once Earth had been depopulated, I imagine Harbinger would take the Citadel with the fleet once they moved on to attack Pallaven or Sur'Kesh.

And yes, it makes no sense they wouldn't just shut down the Relays. But that would make the game unplayable so, we have to make some concessions.

Modifié par MisterJB, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:16 .

[AussieGiant]

Thought I might chime in here.

If you didn't choose a Shep survive ending then I'm quite confident that Miranda, after a reasonable amount of time, will find someone. If Shepard left her anything it was the possibility that opening up to someone has a lot more benefits than disadvantages to it. Plus, I believe she knows a dead Shepard would want her to try after spending so much time pushing through her defenses to show her exactly that.  She's a smart woman and emotionally greatly changed by her relationship with our fella.

I choose a high EMS Destroy option so the nut job has made it through impossible odds again.

Given his total destruction at the start of ME2 he'll make a full recovery in my mind, especially with his very own reconstruction expert on hand. I think it's going to be more of a mental recovery for him and will require them both spending a great deal of time gaining some sense of equilibrium after the universal events that they have both been intimately part of.  So I'm with Taboo here on this specific topic.

Modifié par AussieGiant, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:13 .

[wright1978]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Because the war is over they're going to have a lot to say to each other.

There's still a lot that needs to be said and done in that regard.

I'm beginning to like the concept of Miranda taking Shepard away for a year or so to help him recover.

That's not for me personally. They've got to repair the relays and stop the isolationists from delaying that. Shep will recover on the run in my canon.

[Stalker]

MisterJB wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
Oh you mean instead of leaving it in the Serpent Nebula where it can only be reched through the relays (which they control and should have shut down)?

Because Sol can be reached through any way other than the Relays?
The Serpent Nebula is positioned right in the middle of the Relay Network. There are dozens of Relays nearby, which means reinforcements from any part of the galaxy can be there in minutes (Mass Effect: Revelation).
But, of course, this works both ways. So, either the Reapers keep only a small contigent there to protect it and risk the races of the galaxy using the Crucible before reinforcements can arrive or they reallocate a great number of their forces to the Citadel in antecipation to the final battle which would, invariably, mean reducing the number of Reapers Harvesting conquered homeworlds and putting the pressure on those yet to be conquered which could lead to the races retaking Earth.

So, it makes sense to move it to the orbit of the planet they were most focused on at the moment. That way, they can protect it and continue the Harvest. Once Earth had been depopulated, I imagine Harbinger would take the Citadel with the fleet once they moved on to attack Pallaven or Sur'Kesh.

And yes, it makes no sense they wouldn't just shut down the Relays. But that would make the game unplayable so, we have to make some concessions.

See it this way: The forces of the galaxy are united as a reinforcement for Earth. This is made pretty clear in several conversations. "Cure the Genophage and we will help Earth" "We need to make Palaven free of Reapers first in order to help Earth" etc.

Now the Reapers decide to move their kill-device right in the defense lines of Earth where everyone is heading anyway. So all of the forces can attack a single point. That's no intelligent way of military tactics.

1. If they wouldn't have moved it, the forces would have 2 targets to care about. Attacking first Earth and then Citadel (vice versa), would have made the galaxies' forces loose as well as splitting them.
2. They decide to place their kill-device in the same line as Earth: They give the enemy the Citadel in addition to the Earth they were going to attack anyway
3. If the Reapers can move it, why not hide it in dark space? It's not like anyone would be able to find it there.

[MisterJB]

Mr Massakka wrote...
See it this way: The forces of the galaxy are united as a reinforcement for Earth. This is made pretty clear in several conversations. "Cure the Genophage and we will help Earth" "We need to make Palaven free of Reapers first in order to help Earth" etc.

Now the Reapers decide to move their kill-device right in the defense lines of Earth where everyone is heading anyway. So all of the forces can attack a single point. That's no intelligent way of military tactics.

1. If they wouldn't have moved it, the forces would have 2 targets to care about. Attacking first Earth and then Citadel (vice versa), would have made the galaxies' forces loose as well as splitting them.
2. They decide to place their kill-device in the same line as Earth: They give the enemy the Citadel in addition to the Earth they were going to attack anyway

I see it this way: Hadn't the Reapers moved the Citadel to Earth, not a single alien would have set foot in there to help. They would have backed out on those promises at FTL speed.

3. If the Reapers can move it, why not hide it in dark space? It's not like anyone would be able to find it there.

Because it would be an extremely long trip.

[wright1978]

Mr Massakka wrote...

See it this way: The forces of the galaxy are united as a reinforcement for Earth. This is made pretty clear in several conversations. "Cure the Genophage and we will help Earth" "We need to make Palaven free of Reapers first in order to help Earth" etc.

Now the Reapers decide to move their kill-device right in the defense lines of Earth where everyone is heading anyway. So all of the forces can attack a single point. That's no intelligent way of military tactics.

1. If they wouldn't have moved it, the forces would have 2 targets to care about. Attacking first Earth and then Citadel (vice versa), would have made the galaxies' forces loose as well as splitting them.
2. They decide to place their kill-device in the same line as Earth: They give the enemy the Citadel in addition to the Earth they were going to attack anyway
3. If the Reapers can move it, why not hide it in dark space? It's not like anyone would be able to find it there.

I find it best to ignore as much as possible the utter stupidity(aimed at casual players and marketing slogans) that taking back earth would ever be the prime objective  in the Reaper war.

[fiendishchicken]

wright1978 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

See it this way: The forces of the galaxy are united as a reinforcement for Earth. This is made pretty clear in several conversations. "Cure the Genophage and we will help Earth" "We need to make Palaven free of Reapers first in order to help Earth" etc.

Now the Reapers decide to move their kill-device right in the defense lines of Earth where everyone is heading anyway. So all of the forces can attack a single point. That's no intelligent way of military tactics.

1. If they wouldn't have moved it, the forces would have 2 targets to care about. Attacking first Earth and then Citadel (vice versa), would have made the galaxies' forces loose as well as splitting them.
2. They decide to place their kill-device in the same line as Earth: They give the enemy the Citadel in addition to the Earth they were going to attack anyway
3. If the Reapers can move it, why not hide it in dark space? It's not like anyone would be able to find it there.

I find it best to ignore as much as possible the utter stupidity(aimed at casual players and marketing slogans) that taking back earth would ever be the prime objective  in the Reaper war.

Yeah, it makes Shepard look like such an idiot. If Earth has to burn,try and stop it, but don't waste all your men on that fire alone. Shepard's like, "Stopping the Reapers at Earth is the key to winning the war." Until the citadel was moved there, Earth had no strategic value.

[Stalker]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
See it this way: The forces of the galaxy are united as a reinforcement for Earth. This is made pretty clear in several conversations. "Cure the Genophage and we will help Earth" "We need to make Palaven free of Reapers first in order to help Earth" etc.

Now the Reapers decide to move their kill-device right in the defense lines of Earth where everyone is heading anyway. So all of the forces can attack a single point. That's no intelligent way of military tactics.

1. If they wouldn't have moved it, the forces would have 2 targets to care about. Attacking first Earth and then Citadel (vice versa), would have made the galaxies' forces loose as well as splitting them.
2. They decide to place their kill-device in the same line as Earth: They give the enemy the Citadel in addition to the Earth they were going to attack anyway

I see it this way: Hadn't the Reapers moved the Citadel to Earth, not a single alien would have set foot in there to help. They would have backed out on those promises at FTL speed.

3. If the Reapers can move it, why not hide it in dark space? It's not like anyone would be able to find it there.

Because it would be an extremely long trip.

1. What? No. Everyone promised their support for Earth. The Crucible/Citadel had nothing to do with uniting the galaxy throughout ME3.

2. It wouldn't have been a long trip: Just move in empty space between 2 systems. No one would know in empty space.