82210 réponses à ce sujet

[krukow]

wright1978 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

See it this way: The forces of the galaxy are united as a reinforcement for Earth. This is made pretty clear in several conversations. "Cure the Genophage and we will help Earth" "We need to make Palaven free of Reapers first in order to help Earth" etc.

Now the Reapers decide to move their kill-device right in the defense lines of Earth where everyone is heading anyway. So all of the forces can attack a single point. That's no intelligent way of military tactics.

1. If they wouldn't have moved it, the forces would have 2 targets to care about. Attacking first Earth and then Citadel (vice versa), would have made the galaxies' forces loose as well as splitting them.
2. They decide to place their kill-device in the same line as Earth: They give the enemy the Citadel in addition to the Earth they were going to attack anyway
3. If the Reapers can move it, why not hide it in dark space? It's not like anyone would be able to find it there.

I find it best to ignore as much as possible the utter stupidity(aimed at casual players and marketing slogans) that taking back earth would ever be the prime objective  in the Reaper war.

Taking back Earth works because the galaxy was going to have to concentrate it's forces somewhere, and Shepard is the only one in the universe who can rally all the races.  Heck, he's the only one who seems interested in it. 

From a meta level, taking back Earth would have been FREAKING AWESOME if that had actually been how the game played out (rally the universe, kick the reapers arse).  Oh well, at least I got to shoot the tube...

*edit*, do you all do the top miranda stuff here?  I'm used to the Ashley forums.  Better be safe...

Modifié par krukow, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:58 .

[Stalker]

wright1978 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

See it this way: The forces of the galaxy are united as a reinforcement for Earth. This is made pretty clear in several conversations. "Cure the Genophage and we will help Earth" "We need to make Palaven free of Reapers first in order to help Earth" etc.

Now the Reapers decide to move their kill-device right in the defense lines of Earth where everyone is heading anyway. So all of the forces can attack a single point. That's no intelligent way of military tactics.

1. If they wouldn't have moved it, the forces would have 2 targets to care about. Attacking first Earth and then Citadel (vice versa), would have made the galaxies' forces loose as well as splitting them.
2. They decide to place their kill-device in the same line as Earth: They give the enemy the Citadel in addition to the Earth they were going to attack anyway
3. If the Reapers can move it, why not hide it in dark space? It's not like anyone would be able to find it there.

I find it best to ignore as much as possible the utter stupidity(aimed at casual players and marketing slogans) that taking back earth would ever be the prime objective  in the Reaper war.

Also agreed with that. 

I never understood why Shepard ordered every race off their homeworld just to help Earth. It's not like any race ever wondered about that, either.

As much as Shepard may have a personal connection to his/her homeworld, Earth is no more important than any other planet.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:01 .

[hot_heart]

Yeah, I was a bit confused about the actual central objective.

I ignored the 'Take Back Earth' stuff as just marketing guff and figured that the game would actually have a different focus. I thought the idea was to build an army and reinforce the Crucible. They weren't even sure what it was going to do and that it needed to attach to the Citadel until Cronos. Earth being the focus of the main war effort seemed odd until the Citadel was moved there.

I guess they figured they'd go at the largest concentration of Reapers to try and break the back of the invasion force?

[wright1978]

krukow wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

I find it best to ignore as much as possible the utter stupidity(aimed at casual players and marketing slogans) that taking back earth would ever be the prime objective  in the Reaper war.

Taking back Earth works because the galaxy was going to have to concentrate it's forces somewhere, and Shepard is the only one in the universe who can rally all the races.  Heck, he's the only one who seems interested in it. 

From a meta level, taking back Earth would have been FREAKING AWESOME if that had actually been how the game played out (rally the universe, kick the reapers arse).  Oh well, at least I got to shoot the tube...

It doesn't work. It is idiotic until the moment the citadel is revealed to be the catalyst and has been moved there. Unfortunately they wanted a marketing slogan so the idiotic idea that taking back earth was the focus of the galactic armada rather than defeating the reapers.

[Taboo]

Well, one might have some connection to Earth if your Shepard is Earthborn.

Other than that I would think it's just centralized there because that's were most of the Reapers are.

And the Citadel is needed to activate the Crucible.

Had Kai Leng not had plot armor we could have fired the Crucible someplace else.

[krukow]

wright1978 wrote...

krukow wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

I find it best to ignore as much as possible the utter stupidity(aimed at casual players and marketing slogans) that taking back earth would ever be the prime objective  in the Reaper war.

Taking back Earth works because the galaxy was going to have to concentrate it's forces somewhere, and Shepard is the only one in the universe who can rally all the races.  Heck, he's the only one who seems interested in it. 

From a meta level, taking back Earth would have been FREAKING AWESOME if that had actually been how the game played out (rally the universe, kick the reapers arse).  Oh well, at least I got to shoot the tube...

It doesn't work. It is idiotic until the moment the citadel is revealed to be the catalyst and has been moved there. Unfortunately they wanted a marketing slogan so the idiotic idea that taking back earth was the focus of the galactic armada rather than defeating the reapers.

I assumed the "take back Earth" stuff was just code for beating back/defeating the reapers, but it just sounds cooler?  Yeah, if the point is JUST to retake Earth and then chill out, it's pretty retarded.  If it's being treated as like the Gettysburgh/Midway of this war, a focal battle that will decide the outcome of the war, then it's okay.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

*edit*, do you all do the top miranda stuff here?  I'm used to the Ashley forums.  Better be safe...

Not always. It's nice to have a picture at or near the top, though. Thanks 

Modifié par flemm, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:04 .

[Dr. Doctor]

On the topic of Miranda moving on I would imagine that Shepard wouldn't want her mourning over him for the rest of her life if he was dead or otherwise couldn't come back. Obsessing over Shepard and trying to figure out a way to bring him back / jumping out of the airlock because he's gone is more Liara's territory.

[krukow]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

On the topic of Miranda moving on I would imagine that Shepard wouldn't want her mourning over him for the rest of her life if he was dead or otherwise couldn't come back. Obsessing over Shepard and trying to figure out a way to bring him back / jumping out of the airlock because he's gone is more Liara's territory.

Liara's going to live for 900 more years.  Shepard was never anything more than a fling (this is completely spelled out by that asari in ME2 that had a Krogan bf and said with humans you just wait for them to die).

Besides, Tali's the one who likes to fling herself off/out of things...

[Ieldra]

AussieGiant wrote...
If you didn't choose a Shep survive ending then I'm quite confident that Miranda, after a reasonable amount of time, will find someone. If Shepard left her anything it was the possibility that opening up to someone has a lot more benefits than disadvantages to it. Plus, I believe she knows a dead Shepard would want her to try after spending so much time pushing through her defenses to show her exactly that.  She's a smart woman and emotionally greatly changed by her relationship with our fella.

This has my full agreement.

I choose a high EMS Destroy option so the nut job has made it through impossible odds again.

LOL. Yeah, Vega's "loco" is so appropriate. Entering the Conduit with the Mako. Attacking the Collector base with a team of 12. The man's just crazy.

Given his total destruction at the start of ME2 he'll make a full recovery in my mind, especially with his very own reconstruction expert on hand. I think it's going to be more of a mental recovery for him and will require them both spending a great deal of time gaining some sense of equilibrium after the universal events that they have both been intimately part of.  So I'm with Taboo here on this specific topic.

Post-Destroy, that's how I see it as well.

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

On the topic of Miranda moving on I would imagine that Shepard wouldn't want her mourning over him for the rest of her life if he was dead or otherwise couldn't come back. Obsessing over Shepard and trying to figure out a way to bring him back / jumping out of the airlock because he's gone is more Liara's territory.

Liara's going to live for 900 more years.  Shepard was never anything more than a fling (this is completely spelled out by that asari in ME2 that had a Krogan bf and said with humans you just wait for them to die).

Besides, Tali's the one who likes to fling herself off/out of things...

Quoted for truth.

Tali is...obsessed with Shepard.

I haven't heard the romance dialouge but from what I've been told she's more in love with the idea of Shepard than she is him.

[krukow]

I don't get why everyone thinks Shepard is going to be so broken up about the end if he chooses destroy and lives. I mean, he kills EDI, fine. And possibly the Geth (unless you're heartless ala Taboo). And, yeah, that sucks, but Shepard is a career soldier who understands the sacrifices needed to win a war. It's not like he chose a way to destroy the reapers that killed edi/geth over a way to kill the reapers that didn't. He chose the only option available.

So yeah, I just don't see it. I think Shepard is fine after destroy. He'll remember EDI/Geth and their sacrifices, but he won't be like all destroyed about it. He understands the reality of war, and doesn't shirk from responsibility and neccessity.

[wright1978]

krukow wrote...

I don't get why everyone thinks Shepard is going to be so broken up about the end if he chooses destroy and lives. I mean, he kills EDI, fine. And possibly the Geth (unless you're heartless ala Taboo). And, yeah, that sucks, but Shepard is a career soldier who understands the sacrifices needed to win a war. It's not like he chose a way to destroy the reapers that killed edi/geth over a way to kill the reapers that didn't. He chose the only option available.

So yeah, I just don't see it. I think Shepard is fine after destroy. He'll remember EDI/Geth and their sacrifices, but he won't be like all destroyed about it. He understands the reality of war, and doesn't shirk from responsibility and neccessity.

Agree far too much to do. Time for introspection can come later.

[hot_heart]

Everyone has their own Shepard and, since it's all left open, the point is moot, really.

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

I don't get why everyone thinks Shepard is going to be so broken up about the end if he chooses destroy and lives. I mean, he kills EDI, fine. And possibly the Geth (unless you're heartless ala Taboo). And, yeah, that sucks, but Shepard is a career soldier who understands the sacrifices needed to win a war. It's not like he chose a way to destroy the reapers that killed edi/geth over a way to kill the reapers that didn't. He chose the only option available.

So yeah, I just don't see it. I think Shepard is fine after destroy. He'll remember EDI/Geth and their sacrifices, but he won't be like all destroyed about it. He understands the reality of war, and doesn't shirk from responsibility and neccessity.

Read my blog post bro.

My Shepard is going to feel like ****.

It's in my banner space.

It isn't long either.

[MisterJB]

Mr Massakka wrote...
1. What? No. Everyone promised their support for Earth. The Crucible/Citadel had nothing to do with uniting the galaxy throughout ME3.

Of course they did. They needed Shepard's help.
But let me ask you, did you see any aliens helping Earth until the Crucible needed to be moved there? No.
Did the aliens help when the geth attacked? No. Did they help when the Collectors kidnapped us? No.
Humanity is alone in a galaxy that would like to see it gone.

2. It wouldn't have been a long trip: Just move in empty space between 2 systems. No one would know in empty space.

And just leave it unprotected? What if it was found by accident?
Move Reapers there to protect it? Then the allied races would know it was there.

[hot_heart]

Taboo-XX wrote...
It isn't long either.

That's what she said!

Oh, wait, wrong forum...

[MisterJB]

hot_heart wrote...
I guess they figured they'd go at the largest concentration of Reapers to try and break the back of the invasion force?

Turians wanted to protect Pallaven. Salarians want to hold to Sur'Kesh. Asari want to take back Thessia. And Humans want to take back Earth.

Shepard, being a human, wants to protect his people. This might present a problem because we are used to roleplaying Shepard and there are many who claim things like "I would sacrifice humanity if that was what it took to stop the Reapers."
But, realistically, no one is willing to sacrifice its family to save others.

[hot_heart]

Yes, but I'm trying to reason out why they're saying they'll help Earth rather than something akin to "We'll fight under your banner, wherever you may go."

[hot_heart]

Oh, and while I'm being vulgar. The real reason Miranda ran away. Parents can be so embarrassing...

Gotta love YouTube audio transcriptions.

[wright1978]

2 games of the objective being to stop the reapers and apparently in 3 trying to liberate earth even if it means losing the war is the priority. What a load of tripe. I just headcanon it that Shep and Anderson are being fakely positive when both know Shep won't return to earth unless that's where he needs to go to defeat the reapers.

[Stalker]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
1. What? No. Everyone promised their support for Earth. The Crucible/Citadel had nothing to do with uniting the galaxy throughout ME3.

Of course they did. They needed Shepard's help.
But let me ask you, did you see any aliens helping Earth until the Crucible needed to be moved there? No.
Did the aliens help when the geth attacked? No. Did they help when the Collectors kidnapped us? No.
Humanity is alone in a galaxy that would like to see it gone.

2. It wouldn't have been a long trip: Just move in empty space between 2 systems. No one would know in empty space.

And just leave it unprotected? What if it was found by accident?
Move Reapers there to protect it? Then the allied races would know it was there.

1. They didn't help anyone because they were told to wait.

2. It is nearly impossible to be found by accident with the scale of the galaxy.
Even if: Splitting up the forces of the Reapers would be a much better military tactic than moving both important targets to one spot. That's like moving the American President in the White House because Washington is about to be attacked. "You can protect the important target better there with focussing everything", no?
No one with their mind intact would approve with bringing the most crucial device to the biggest battlefield.

[MisterJB]

Mr Massakka wrote...
1. They didn't help anyone because they were told to wait.

They didn't help anyone because they don't care about anyone other than themselves.

2. It is nearly impossible to be found by accident with the scale of the galaxy.

The Citadel is an enormous space station. Compared to the galaxy, it's minuscule but everyone would be looking for it.

Even if: Splitting up the forces of the Reapers would be a much better military tactic than moving both important targets to one spot. That's like moving the American President in the White House because Washington is about to be attacked. "You can protect the important target better there with focussing everything", no?
No one with their mind intact would approve with bringing the most crucial device to the biggest battlefield.

There is just one important target and that is the Citadel.
In case of attack, the president is moved to a bunker. The Reapers don't have a bunker, they have, however, the most powerful fleet in the galaxy. So, they placed the Citadel in the middle of that fleet where it can be better protected

[Ieldra]

Mr Massakka wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
1. What? No. Everyone promised their support for Earth. The Crucible/Citadel had nothing to do with uniting the galaxy throughout ME3.

Of course they did. They needed Shepard's help.
But let me ask you, did you see any aliens helping Earth until the Crucible needed to be moved there? No.
Did the aliens help when the geth attacked? No. Did they help when the Collectors kidnapped us? No.
Humanity is alone in a galaxy that would like to see it gone.

2. It wouldn't have been a long trip: Just move in empty space between 2 systems. No one would know in empty space.

And just leave it unprotected? What if it was found by accident?
Move Reapers there to protect it? Then the allied races would know it was there.

1. They didn't help anyone because they were told to wait.

2. It is nearly impossible to be found by accident with the scale of the galaxy.
Even if: Splitting up the forces of the Reapers would be a much better military tactic than moving both important targets to one spot. That's like moving the American President in the White House because Washington is about to be attacked. "You can protect the important target better there with focussing everything", no?
No one with their mind intact would approve with bringing the most crucial device to the biggest battlefield.

As for (1):
I'm sure had there been any chance that the Reapers were after humans alone, nobody would've helped - and you can't even blame them for it, for who would go against a force like the Reapers without being threatened with extinction? It's just how the universe works. Earth would have died, the Council would at last have taken the threat seriously and looked for a way to prevent a repeat with another species.

[Stalker]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
1. They didn't help anyone because they were told to wait.

They didn't help anyone because they don't care about anyone other than themselves.

2. It is nearly impossible to be found by accident with the scale of the galaxy.

The Citadel is an enormous space station. Compared to the galaxy, it's minuscule but everyone would be looking for it.

Even if: Splitting up the forces of the Reapers would be a much better military tactic than moving both important targets to one spot. That's like moving the American President in the White House because Washington is about to be attacked. "You can protect the important target better there with focussing everything", no?
No one with their mind intact would approve with bringing the most crucial device to the biggest battlefield.

There is just one important target and that is the Citadel.
In case of attack, the president is moved to a bunker. The Reapers don't have a bunker, they have, however, the most powerful fleet in the galaxy. So, they placed the Citadel in the middle of that fleet where it can be better protected

1. We clearly talked inside a loop there. You can't know their intentions and priorities. They promised their help for Earth, but their true intentions could be different.

2. The President is moved out of town through emergency tunnels or the Air Force One. If Washington would stand right before an attack and the President is out of country, we wouldn't be flown in to be better protected there. No: They would hide him. That at least if Washington falls, the President is kept alive.
When you already expect someone to attack somewhere, you won't move a crucial device right between that line to protect it.

Shepard united the fleets for Earth, not for the Crucible. Only near the end we are told that it works with the Citadel and that we would need the fleets to get it through to Earth.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 27 juillet 2012 - 08:05 .