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[wright1978]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You should feel sad for people when they die anyway. She doesn't have to die either, if you know what you're doing there is no excuse for her dying.

But I've always sympathized with Miranda's story so I've accepted things as they come.

She was shoehorned in ME3 and it shows, but a good, solid DLC can fix that.

Obviously she never dies in my games and never will. That doesn't mean i can't see evidence in ME3 that they were trying to show her in a light that would draw the maximum amount of sympathy when she died. ME2's Miranda was a much more controversial character that drew plenty of fans but also drew a lot of dislike.

[Taboo]

I didn't even know she could die until I came onto the BSN.

I wouldn't even be here if the EC had been there in the first place. I likely would have never known.

[CrutchCricket]

Lance: I play on PC.

And I'm actually going back to ME1 for a bit. The geth have really narrow heads in that one.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 27 juillet 2012 - 11:02 .

[krukow]

jtav wrote...

Truthfully, she survives entirely on the strength of my lingering affection, the email, and the slides. Words cannot express how much I hate Miranda in ME3. Exact;y the kind of character I'd kill so I didn't have to deal with her.

...um, why?  I mean, it's irritating that she doesn't come on board the Normandy and join up (I feel conventional victory would have been possible if I had my Ash/Miri squad), but she's still a pretty cool character.  She just wants to save her sister, that's sorta normal during war...

[Taboo]

Well I can see the disconnect with some fans...

However I'm not angry about her character in ME3. I am however angry that she isn't in the game more, as she was so integral to ME2.

That's what causes the disconnet. Some people like the super spy, others the person she becomes.

Only one is shown in detail in ME3.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 27 juillet 2012 - 11:07 .

[CrutchCricket]

krukow wrote...
...um, why?  I mean, it's irritating that she doesn't come on board the Normandy and join up (I feel conventional victory would have been possible if I had my Ash/Miri squad), but she's still a pretty cool character.  She just wants to save her sister, that's sorta normal during war...

Because there's more to her than her sister. All her goals all her ideas about helping humanity and advancing it are nowhere to be found. And what about her time with Cerberus? Decades spent working for an organization who eventually become space Naz!s and no comment? No reflection? Does she really have nothing to say?

It's an annoyance for most of us.

Of course not all of us rush to kill characters we don't like arbitrarily. That's just a more extreme expression of distaste.

[krukow]

CrutchCricket wrote...

krukow wrote...
...um, why?  I mean, it's irritating that she doesn't come on board the Normandy and join up (I feel conventional victory would have been possible if I had my Ash/Miri squad), but she's still a pretty cool character.  She just wants to save her sister, that's sorta normal during war...

Because there's more to her than her sister. All her goals all her ideas about helping humanity and advancing it are nowhere to be found. And what about her time with Cerberus? Decades spent working for an organization who eventually become space Naz!s and no comment? No reflection? Does she really have nothing to say?

It's an annoyance for most of us.

Of course not all of us rush to kill characters we don't like arbitrarily. That's just a more extreme expression of distaste.

true, I can appreciate that.  I always just saw it as a function of her having such limited screen time, and characters having limited time in general (like Ashely not ever mentioning her religious beliefs), instead of her character being changed.  I choose to headcanon that she's the same, just a lot of stuff isn't fleshed out in this game (just like I do with Ashely.  hmmmm, noticing a pattern...)

[jtav]

ME2 Miranda was a character who had ideas and ideals. flemm called her "the thinking man's knockout." She was ambitious with a vision of human advancement that didn't involve constant atrocities. ME3 Miranda doesn't have a thought in that pretty head of hers that doesn't involve Ori or the romance. Yes, it's good that she loves her sister, but that isn't remarkable or unique.I feel as if I'm being asked to like her because she isn't a sociopath. The lack of joining up isn't a problem. Her lack of ideals is.

[Taboo]

Well it's entirely possible that whoever wrote her didn't think it was important.

OR it may be that her primary concern in a war that may end with the deaths of everyone is to find her sister.

As I've said before, what she needs is some DLC to flesh her out some more.

Or there are other reasons which I won't mention here.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 27 juillet 2012 - 11:13 .

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I am however angry that she isn't in the game more, as she was so integral to ME2.

In essence it's a similar complaint because it's always been easy to imagine her role in the game becoming awesome by adding stuff. Everybody likes the Loyalty Mission in ME2, but it's balanced by other things. Until that happens, though, it is what it is.

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

ME2 Miranda was a character who had ideas and ideals. flemm called her "the thinking man's knockout." She was ambitious with a vision of human advancement that didn't involve constant atrocities. ME3 Miranda doesn't have a thought in that pretty head of hers that doesn't involve Ori or the romance. Yes, it's good that she loves her sister, but that isn't remarkable or unique.I feel as if I'm being asked to like her because she isn't a sociopath. The lack of joining up isn't a problem. Her lack of ideals is.

Like i said i think they wanted her uncontroversial to generate sympathy for death sequence. Therefore i dig my heels in like a mule and will never give them that satisfaction ever. I just have to head canon lots of deep pillow talk.

[krukow]

I will admit I never did understand Miranda's lessened role. I came on board with ME2 (bought ME1 retroactively) and I always thought the more important squad members from that would still be important in ME3. I figured the characters would be some formation of:
Ash/Kaidan
Liara
Tali
Garrus
Miranda
Jacob (didn't realize he was so hated)

And then go from there, but then ME3 was more like a sequel to ME1 with some sprinkling of ME2 (the superior game fyi. Ash is my favorite squaddie, but ME2's are more consistantly awesome).

...Just weird.

[Taboo]

To be fair, she still has ideals, but they aren't her primary concern at the moment. As it turns she has feelings and those have a tendency to override thinking, especially when everything around you may be coming to an end.

It's a ****ty excuse but it is what it is.

I can imagine her doing things after the war, with or without Shepard depending on your end choice. War is not the time for idealist fantasies.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I can imagine her doing things after the war, with or without Shepard depending on your end choice. War is not the time for idealist fantasies.

If the organisation that you worked for pretty much all your life has become a major enemy in that war, it's probably time to do something about it. That's not a fantasy.

As it happens, she does do something about it. It probably comes across as more incidental to Orianna than they intended.

Modifié par flemm, 27 juillet 2012 - 11:25 .

[Taboo]

What I meant was taking time spending on thinking how to improve humanity while the Reapers were out there.

She was a part of the least zealous cell remember, and she becomes vocally upset on missions when Cerberus does things she doesn't like.

She does do something about it, but not because of idealist fantasies.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

What I meant was taking time spending on thinking how to improve humanity while the Reapers were out there.

Well, nobody thinks Miranda should be organizing a lunch meeting to discuss what the charter for the next human advancement society shall contain point by point

That isn't what's missing. She should *care* about the fact that Cerberus has become a perversion of its former self, however, and doing something about it should be a priority for her. This isn't complicated or mysterious. Both Kelly and Jacob have lines of the type Miranda should have.

Part of the issue is obviously that she just isn't in the game much, and most of it is just standing around when she is.

Modifié par flemm, 27 juillet 2012 - 11:34 .

[jtav]

She's in the game enough, I think. Jacob pulls it off despite a smaller role. They just don't bring it up. Where's the guilt and righteous fury? By their own admission she was TIM's right hand, not a naive innocent. She should want to take them down more than anything. TIM used her, lied to her. Every good thing she did for them is now perverted. She should be an avenging angel. Not this...whatever she is.

[Taboo]

I think she does care. But she just doesn't say anything. It's more than evident that she's in danger and she mentions this.

Cerberus has had a tendency to switch between ethically grey and mustache twirling insanity. The Lazarus Cell that Miranda headed in ME2 was the least zealous. They were doing the right thing but that doesn't meant Cerberus has always been in the right either. I look at them a lot like the IRA. The goal was very noble, however the methods ranged from beneficial to insane. The difference is that Cerberus Cells do not have contact with one another. EDI states this.

Miranda is aware of what's going on with the other cells from what she hears in the news. She has no knowledge of the intimate details of the other cells. It's quite evident from her dialogue in the game that there are some things she has no knowledge of and is quite upset when she finds out about it.

It isn't that Cerberus is wrong. It's that it's blemished by the actions of extremists, just like the IRA. And in the end, that's the side that usually takes over.

That is not the Cerberus Miranda wants to be a part of.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

That is not the Cerberus Miranda wants to be a part of.

Nobody disputes that, quite the contrary

jtav wrote...
She should be an avenging angel.

Agreed.

Modifié par flemm, 27 juillet 2012 - 11:47 .

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

She's in the game enough, I think. Jacob pulls it off despite a smaller role. They just don't bring it up. Where's the guilt and righteous fury? By their own admission she was TIM's right hand, not a naive innocent. She should want to take them down more than anything. TIM used her, lied to her. Every good thing she did for them is now perverted. She should be an avenging angel. Not this...whatever she is.

Romance stuff is good but yeah there's so much filler to her content elsewhere. My guess a more senior writer could have challenged & fought against the instructions from above for her to be uncontroverisal. Junior writer just wrote within the narrow confines he'd been given unfortunately. Only when us fans started to rage at the leak do we get the cool shadowbroker e-mail.

[krukow]

wright1978 wrote...

jtav wrote...

She's in the game enough, I think. Jacob pulls it off despite a smaller role. They just don't bring it up. Where's the guilt and righteous fury? By their own admission she was TIM's right hand, not a naive innocent. She should want to take them down more than anything. TIM used her, lied to her. Every good thing she did for them is now perverted. She should be an avenging angel. Not this...whatever she is.

Romance stuff is good but yeah there's so much filler to her content elsewhere. My guess a more senior writer could have challenged & fought against the instructions from above for her to be uncontroverisal. Junior writer just wrote within the narrow confines he'd been given unfortunately. Only when us fans started to rage at the leak do we get the cool shadowbroker e-mail.

What shadowbroker email?

[Taboo]

There's an email that states she is infertile.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

It is however something to think about if you plan on seeing her after the war. However, seeing as she brought him back to life with the Lazarus project, curing her infertility shouldn't be an issue.

[SprectreWhoSaysNi]

I thought Miranda would be more important in ME3 by virtue of her being high up the Cerberus food chain in ME2. Exactly much she knows about Cerberus is a matter of debate, but I'm sure we can all agree she knows enough to help Shepard and the Alliance. Besides helping the war effort, there is no better place to stay safe from TIM than aboard the Normandy, and tracking down her father/sister runs in parrelel with Sheps anti-Cerberus efforts. At this point, I guess that's only going to happen in my headcanon.

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

There's an email that states she is infertile.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

It is however something to think about if you plan on seeing her after the war. However, seeing as she brought him back to life with the Lazarus project, curing her infertility shouldn't be an issue.

I knew about that.  How is that "cool"?  I mean, it was an interesting tragic character development, but I'm not sure I'd use "cool" to describe it.  Sucks for Miri.  And the universe, since her perfect genes go with her...

[wright1978]

krukow wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

jtav wrote...

She's in the game enough, I think. Jacob pulls it off despite a smaller role. They just don't bring it up. Where's the guilt and righteous fury? By their own admission she was TIM's right hand, not a naive innocent. She should want to take them down more than anything. TIM used her, lied to her. Every good thing she did for them is now perverted. She should be an avenging angel. Not this...whatever she is.

Romance stuff is good but yeah there's so much filler to her content elsewhere. My guess a more senior writer could have challenged & fought against the instructions from above for her to be uncontroverisal. Junior writer just wrote within the narrow confines he'd been given unfortunately. Only when us fans started to rage at the leak do we get the cool shadowbroker e-mail.

What shadowbroker email?

E-mail stating that Miranda has rounded up a group of like minded Cerberus renegades and been taking out ME3's crazy cerberus nuts.