82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Let's just say I would have absolutely hated making the infertility such a major issue. I shudder even when thinking of it.

[LanceSolous13]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Let's just say I would have absolutely hated making the infertility such a major issue. I shudder even when thinking of it.

Its never discussed. We aren't even sure if Shepard knows about it. Its something that needs to be discussed and Miranda REALLY needs something more to be discussed between them. Its about the future of their relationship.

If anything, Its certainly an improvement.

[jtav]

I think ignoring it was the best option. These are not writers I trust to handle it in a mature and sensitive manner.

[AussieGiant]

Leaving it was the best idea and better for the story imo.

If Shep survives you know it's something that is going to be brought up once they are back together. It's a mute point in the actual game when the entire galaxy may in fact cease to exist in a few weeks/months.

[jtav]

I'd actually be interested in seeing it brought up if Dombrow were handling it. He did very well with Eve. That's actually how I'd have brought it up: via banter with Eve. I don't think it warrants a full convo with Shepard.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I'd actually be interested in seeing it brought up if Dombrow were handling it. He did very well with Eve. That's actually how I'd have brought it up: via banter with Eve. I don't think it warrants a full convo with Shepard.

Well, I think it would if you went with the idea that it was a control mechanism designed by her father. This would be a post-Sanctuary dialogue, though.

[hot_heart]

I think it would be interesting if Miranda (well, other characters too) said she wanted to confess something but you had the option to assure her that it doesn't need saying. I guess the control chip conversation can take that course though in the long-winded sense.

Modifié par hot_heart, 29 juillet 2012 - 02:36 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'd actually be interested in seeing it brought up if Dombrow were handling it. He did very well with Eve. That's actually how I'd have brought it up: via banter with Eve. I don't think it warrants a full convo with Shepard.

Well, I think it would if you went with the idea that it was a control mechanism designed by her father. This would be a post-Sanctuary dialogue, though.

Yes, but then the focus would be completely different. The infertility itself wouldn't be the problem rather than the fact it was another way for her father to control her.

[fiendishchicken]

hot_heart wrote...

I think it would be interesting if Miranda (well, other characters too) said she wanted to confess something but you had the option to assure her that it doesn't need saying. I guess the control chip conversation can take that course though in the long-winded sense.

Miranda is the type where she'd be "Shepard I NEED to tell you exactly how I feel about this. Please just let me say it."

But I would love to have seen a scene that shows how Shepard unconditionally loves Miranda. 

[hot_heart]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Miranda is the type where she'd be "Shepard I NEED to tell you exactly how I feel about this. Please just let me say it."

But I would love to have seen a scene that shows how Shepard unconditionally loves Miranda.

Yeah, she would probably (ask to) continue anyway, but it would have been better than Shepard simply asking "Confess?"

One of those instances where more dialogue choices probably would've been nice.

Modifié par hot_heart, 29 juillet 2012 - 03:22 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes, but then the focus would be completely different. The infertility itself wouldn't be the problem rather than the fact it was another way for her father to control her.

Yeah, that's what I mean. At that point it ties into quite a few important elements of the story and would merit a conversation.

[Taboo]

Well we don't know if the infertility was intentional or not. She was the first child he "grew" to have biotic abilities. That alone can cause tumors remember?

I would think that it would be a great option for DLC if they did it right. Say, after the mission she joins you in your quarters for a short time and she relays the issue in a manner most befitting her character.

I don't see it as a foucs to her character either, I see it as another addition to the tragedies her father caused, which are numerous. She's still Miranda. She stills gets the job done.

She wants a baby, which is not all that uncommon, and maybe, someday, depending on how you feel, your Shepard can help her with that.

If she asked my Shepard for help, I know he would help her with it, as I'm sure many of yours would too.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well we don't know if the infertility was intentional or not.

No, that is just one idea (though I think one of the better ones). Anyway, I think there are a few different ways it could be handled that would be positive.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well we don't know if the infertility was intentional or not.

No, that is just one idea (though I think one of the better ones). Anyway, I think there are a few different ways it could be handled that would be positive.

I believe that process is listed as progressive, which means that it clearly wasn't immediate.

Why not simply prevent Miranda from having eggs develop? 

That would have been a FAR simpler thing to do.

Henry was smart, I would think that he would try and be specific in his control.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Why not simply prevent Miranda from having eggs develop? 

Because he would want Miranda to be able to reproduce if she had been willing to carry on his legacy. The progressive infertility would be built in like a failsafe in the event that she rebeled.

From a fictional science point of view, there would be a treatment that would prevent the progressive infertility from occurring that Henry would have administered if Miranda had not rebeled against him.

So, from the point of view of this idea, it is like a built-in control mechanism. One that Miranda could eventually figure out, but that wouldn't be immediately obvious.

Modifié par flemm, 29 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Why not simply prevent Miranda from having eggs develop? 

Because he would want Miranda to be able to reproduce if she had been willing to carry on his legacy. The progressive infertility would be built in like a failsafe in the event that she rebeled.

A fair point, although benign tumors may form at any age. That's the most common cause of infertility in women, and it's easily treated.

The issue is were they are and how big they are. They can become as big as grapefruits.

Remember, Miranda may be thirty six but her body is made to be younger. He wanted her to be able to reproduce for a LONG time in your scenario. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Td1984]

Ieldra2 wrote...

krukow wrote...
So do you let her shoot her friend in ME2 (the one that double crosses you)? I can't remember his name, but I usually stop her.

Niket. My Shepards don't have a habit of f*cking up a standoff situation like that. I would've used a conversation option to convince her depending on my Shep, but physically interrupting her? Never. Besides, it's her decision, and my main Shepard tentatively agrees with her anyway.

In ME2, I let Miranda kill Niket, Garrus kill Sidonis and Mordin kill Maelon. I figure they're adults so they can make their own decisions and live with the consequences. That said, I generally (other than my Renegon FShep) stop Jack from killing Aresh.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
A fair point, although benign tumors may form at any age. That's the most common cause of infertility in women, and it's easily treated.

Sure. I don't have any problem with that idea either, it just doesn't have the same connection with other elements of the story.

Taboo-XX wrote...

Remember, Miranda may be thirty six but her body is made to be younger. He wanted her to be able to reproduce
for a LONG time in your scenario. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Modifié par flemm, 29 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .

[Taboo]

Miranda is thirty six, it's more than evident that her tailoring makes her biologically younger in most aspects. She's going to live half again as long as a regular human remember?

It doesn't make sense to make her infertile at this age. People in Mass Effect can have children up into there sixties. Unless you're suggesting he wanted her to have many children early, there's no reason to make the condition progressively worse.

I would think he would want as many as possible to create his beloved Dynasty. It's more than evident he wants more than one, as he's clearly grown many, many girls from tubes. As Miranda states, she was just the first one he kept.

[Stalker]

Td1984 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

krukow wrote...
So do you let her shoot her friend in ME2 (the one that double crosses you)? I can't remember his name, but I usually stop her.

Niket. My Shepards don't have a habit of f*cking up a standoff situation like that. I would've used a conversation option to convince her depending on my Shep, but physically interrupting her? Never. Besides, it's her decision, and my main Shepard tentatively agrees with her anyway.

In ME2, I let Miranda kill Niket, Garrus kill Sidonis and Mordin kill Maelon. I figure they're adults so they can make their own decisions and live with the consequences. That said, I generally (other than my Renegon FShep) stop Jack from killing Aresh.

I seem to be in the minority throughout the fanbase when I say that I stopped her.

I don't see it as negative to intervent someone from making a bad decision. Sure they are adult enough to make their own decisions, but sometimes people need input for the better outcome.

While I accepted Garrus' motivations to kill Sidonis, I disagreed with Miranda's: It wasn't enough reason to kill her best childhood friend. If she really wanted to kill him, she could have done it. I was just trying to let her to reconsider it.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 29 juillet 2012 - 04:20 .

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Miranda is thirty six, it's more than evident that her tailoring makes her biologically younger in most aspects. She's going to live half again as long as a regular human remember?

It doesn't make sense to make her infertile at this age. People in Mass Effect can have children up into there sixties. Unless you're suggesting he wanted her to have many children early, there's no reason to make the condition progressively worse.

I would think he would want as many as possible to create his beloved Dynasty. It's more than evident he wants more than one, as he's clearly grown many, many girls from tubes. As Miranda states, she was just the first one he kept.

I will try to flesh the idea out a bit. Remember, this is just a concept (not something that is in the game).

You are Henry Lawson, and you are creating children to carry on your legacy. You want them to be able to reproduce, but only if they obey you and remain committed to that legacy.

On the other hand, you are creating genetically gifted individuals, who are going to be stronger, smarter than average, etc. With biotics and so on. So, the possibility of rebellion is always present.

Given the level of scientific expertise displayed by Henry, it's plausible that he could design his children to require certain treatments that he can administer periodically in order for them to remain fertile. But Miranda wouldn't know this. So, once she rebelled, the control mechanism kicked in and she became infertile.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Miranda is thirty six, it's more than evident that her tailoring makes her biologically younger in most aspects. She's going to live half again as long as a regular human remember?

It doesn't make sense to make her infertile at this age. People in Mass Effect can have children up into there sixties. Unless you're suggesting he wanted her to have many children early, there's no reason to make the condition progressively worse.

I would think he would want as many as possible to create his beloved Dynasty. It's more than evident he wants more than one, as he's clearly grown many, many girls from tubes. As Miranda states, she was just the first one he kept.

I will try to flesh the idea out a bit. Remember, this is just a concept (not something that is in the game).

You are Henry Lawson, and you are creating children to carry on your legacy. You want them to be able to reproduce, but only if they obey you and remain committed to that legacy.

On the other hand, you are creating genetically gifted individuals, who are going to be stronger, smarter than average, etc. With biotics and so on. So, the possibility of rebellion is always present.

Given the level of scientific expertise displayed by Henry, it's plausible that he could design his children to require certain treatments that he can administer periodically in order for them to remain fertile. But Miranda wouldn't know this. So, once she rebelled, the control mechanism kicked in and she became infertile.

That's a hell of an investment flemm and a hell of a lot of effort to put in. Henry wanted control, that's evident, but at some point he had to realize that they would fight back. I think that's a resonable expectation from him. But I also think it's reasonable to believe that his arrogance would lead him to believe that he COULD control them with money and other luxuries.

To be honest, I'm unsure if he would ever truly be "happy" with his daughters. He's grown many. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he would continue to make more past Oriana. I don't think it makes sense to continually make things worse for them.

Also, making them completely fertile would be an even more powerful form of control. Make them have a child early, and use it as a tool of manipulation to make more. Injecting them with drugs to lessen the problem wouldn't be necessary.

I think he just ****ed up. He did start growing Oriana when she was a teenage after all. Something had to be up. And growing a child to replace the daughter that has a progressive condition makes sense to me.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 29 juillet 2012 - 04:29 .

[Sifr]

What worries me about Henry Lawson is that I honestly do wonder if he has another daughter we don't know about? It's not unreasonable he's done so in the last 18 years or so, having learnt his lession in secrecy after Miranda ran away with Oriana?

Modifié par Sifr1449, 29 juillet 2012 - 04:45 .

[Taboo]

Sifr1449 wrote...

What worries me about Henry Lawson is that I honestly do wonder if he has another daughter we don't know about? It's not unreasonable he's done so in the last 18 years or so, having learnt his lession in secrecy after Miranda ran away with Oriana?

I can see him doing that, although I'm fairly certain Miranda would know about it and would do something about it.

She has bugs in her father's systems after all.

[krukow]

I doubt Henry Lawson has any other daughters, since Miranda never mentions them.

And I think the Henry Lawson problem was taken care of sufficiently...