82210 réponses à ce sujet

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

What worries me about Henry Lawson is that I honestly do wonder if he has another daughter we don't know about? It's not unreasonable he's done so in the last 18 years or so, having learnt his lession in secrecy after Miranda ran away with Oriana?

I can see him doing that, although I'm fairly certain Miranda would know about it and would do something about it.

She has bugs in her father's systems after all.

And why would Mr. Lawson waste time and resources on finding and abducting Oriana, and possibly Miranda herself, if he simply creates more daughters?

Oriana is logically the last one. You would think Lawson would make more, but all the evidence points to him wanting to reclaim Oriana. He probably hasn't even given up entirely on Miranda either.

[Sifr]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

What worries me about Henry Lawson is that I honestly do wonder if he has another daughter we don't know about? It's not unreasonable he's done so in the last 18 years or so, having learnt his lession in secrecy after Miranda ran away with Oriana?

I can see him doing that, although I'm fairly certain Miranda would know about it and would do something about it.

She has bugs in her father's systems after all.

And why would Mr. Lawson waste time and resources on finding and abducting Oriana, and possibly Miranda herself, if he simply creates more daughters?

Oriana is logically the last one. You would think Lawson would make more, but all the evidence points to him wanting to reclaim Oriana. He probably hasn't even given up entirely on Miranda either.

Control.

It's not about wanting Oriana or Miranda as daughters, he simply wants to know he has the power to control their lives and make them bend to his will. They aren't daughters to him, they're an extension of himself. Thats why he based them on his own DNA.

Which makes sense, cause from all indications, the guy clearly has got severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Modifié par Sifr1449, 29 juillet 2012 - 05:04 .

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

I doubt Henry Lawson has any other daughters, since Miranda never mentions them.

And I think the Henry Lawson problem was taken care of sufficiently...

She does mention them dude. In her loyalty mission she...relays the info that he has made many others. Miranda was just the first one he kept.

He's an awful, awful person.

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

krukow wrote...

I doubt Henry Lawson has any other daughters, since Miranda never mentions them.

And I think the Henry Lawson problem was taken care of sufficiently...

She does mention them dude. In her loyalty mission she...relays the info that he has made many others. Miranda was just the first one he kept.

He's an awful, awful person.

Sorry, let me rephrase.  I doubt there are any other living, viable Henry Lawson daughters.  I think he just kept the 2.

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

krukow wrote...

I doubt Henry Lawson has any other daughters, since Miranda never mentions them.

And I think the Henry Lawson problem was taken care of sufficiently...

She does mention them dude. In her loyalty mission she...relays the info that he has made many others. Miranda was just the first one he kept.

He's an awful, awful person.

Sorry, let me rephrase.  I doubt there are any other living, viable Henry Lawson daughters.  I think he just kept the 2.

I can actually see him growing new ones because he wasn't satisfied with the old one. Miranda couldn't have children, so he made a new one to replace her.. Miranda intervened and stopped him.

And his pride was hurt and he has to reclaim Oriana because growing a new one would let Miranda win.

And his naricissim won't allow that to happen.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 29 juillet 2012 - 05:09 .

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
That's a hell of an investment flemm and a hell of a lot of effort to put in.

Well, yeah. But... we know he did/does put in that level of investment. He wouldn't have been able to create Miranda otherwise. That's not something that happens by accident or without effort. Increased life span, accelerated healing, biotics, etc. An incredible investment and level of scientific expertise would be necessary to accomplish that.

Whatever else he may be, he has to be a scientific genius to be capable of creating Miranda, and learning how to control the Reapers for that matter.

For that reason, I think progressive infertility as intentional control mechanism is a better idea than accidental infertility.

Modifié par flemm, 29 juillet 2012 - 06:00 .

[fiendishchicken]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
That's a hell of an investment flemm and a hell of a lot of effort to put in.

Well, yeah. But... we know he did/does put in that level of investment. He wouldn't have been able to create Miranda otherwise.

Whatever else he may be, he has to be a scientific genius to be capable of creating Miranda, and learning how to control the Reapers for that matter.

Beating a dead horse here, but why was there no confrontation between Miranda and her father. It would have been perfect character development to have her face this... man that she is utterly afraid of. And as he uses Oriana as a human shield and tries to turn her feelings against her once more, Shepard can intervene and with his help and encouragement, Miranda can finally see that all she has done has been for her self and her sister. She has no need to fear this man and thus there is no reason to be controlled by him.

And I'd imagine at first Lawson would try to manipulate or buy off Shepard. And Shepard would tell him that even if Miranda fears him, he doesn't and is ****** poor example of a man and a father, and should he ever try to interfere with the sisters lives again or try to make them fear him, Shepard would know and would be there to show him what real fear is.

And Miranda can give the speech, "You were my father. you were supposed to love me and protect me." And she would tell him that she should never have let herself believe that Lawson ever controlled her. She is her own person, and she chooses to make her own legacy with Shepard, and Lawson's will be nothing more than that of a living demon of human nature. And Oriana will never have to worry about her father trying to control her life and can live the way Miranda wanted her too: the power to choose her own path. 

[MisterJB]

krukow wrote...
And I think the Henry Lawson problem was taken care of sufficiently...

Sadly, I have to disagree. Despite being such a major focus in ME3, it was handled terribly.
Henry was killed but that only ended the threat he represented. Without an argument with him, Miranda never exorcised his ownership of her accomplishments.

[krukow]

I just meant that he's dead and you don't have to worry about him causing trouble going forward...

[MisterJB]

I recommend reading Elyvern's "Degrees of Inheritance". Not only is it, by far, the best Miranda/Shepard story I've ever laid eyes upon, it is a good example of how Henry could continue to cause distress from beyond the grave.

[Sifr]

Personally, I think the confrontation should have had Oriana and Miranda both standing up against him, giving them an equal chance to shine and give the old man some hell.

Henry: Oriana, I'm your father! If you had been left with me, you could have had the world!
Oriana: Yes I could... but I still wouldn't have wanted it. The price was too high!
Henry: Bah! That's Miranda talking! You did this! You poisoned her mind! And after I gave you everything! Everything you are is because of me! I made you special! Both of you!
Oriana: You did. You did make us special... but you've forgotten your one, very stupid mistake?
Henry: And what is that?
Miranda: You made us biotics...

*Both biotically throw him through the window*

Modifié par Sifr1449, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:08 .

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

I just meant that he's dead and you don't have to worry about him causing trouble going forward...

That's true. Obviously, eliminating him is good. But, we need to see how it affects Miranda and Orianna's lives (presumably for the better).

[CEO Fun Buttons]

I'm not sure if this has been busted out yet:

http://www.masseffec...k/#.UBWMazFYtro

But it's packed with interesting info. Pertaining to Miranda, she was far and away the most romanced character of those that weren't on the Normandy in ME3 (take a guess as to the overwhelming favorite though). This might be a good sign if we're looking for any Miranda specific DLC, or even just extra content for Miranda in a DLC. As the numbers are there to support her in a non-crew-member specific DLC.

Edit: That's the pre-EC survey results, the post-EC survey results are still being compiled, I suppose.

Modifié par CEO Fun Buttons, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:31 .

[Taboo]

Henry was talked to, I'm more than certain she and her father exchanged words before Oriana tried to shoot her. You just aren't shown whats going on.

It's bollocks, but the issue at hand is that his influence will always be there. You don't just get over abuse, it's always a part of you, but in time it heals. The scar remains, but it doesn't rule your life. Miranda working for Cerberus served this function before she met Shepard. She can now get validation from work and Shepard, which is essential to the healing process. Cerberus didn't really help her overarching issue though, Shepard did.

That's something to think about.

[hot_heart]

I get the feeling the control chip conversation was supposed to be her getting over all these issues. D'oh.

[fiendishchicken]

hot_heart wrote...

I get the feeling the control chip conversation was supposed to be her getting over all these issues. D'oh.

It was a touching scene, but there really should have been more than just the control chip. 

[Dr. Doctor]

flemm wrote...

Well, yeah. But... we know he did/does put in that level of investment. He wouldn't have been able to create Miranda otherwise. That's not something that happens by accident or without effort. Increased life span, accelerated healing, biotics, etc. An incredible investment and level of scientific expertise would be necessary to accomplish that.

Whatever else he may be, he has to be a scientific genius to be capable of creating Miranda, and learning how to control the Reapers for that matter.

For that reason, I think progressive infertility as intentional control mechanism is a better idea than accidental infertility.

Either that or it's a glitch caused by some of the enhancements he created. The clinic's diagnosis did say that they couldn't tell if it was because of her tailoring or other factors causing it. Someone with comprehensive records of Miranda's tailoring would be able to give a better second opinion.

Now I really wish there was an option to take Henry prisoner so he could be a war asset. There's so many questions and not enough interaction.

[wright1978]

Well i was never bothered about having the big show down with her dad in ME3. However once that became the crux of her mission i was amazed at how little there was to it. Guess it is just undercooked, like everything else from Sanctuary onwards feels.

[Taboo]

fiendishchicken wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

I get the feeling the control chip conversation was supposed to be her getting over all these issues. D'oh.

It was a touching scene, but there really should have been more than just the control chip. 

She still has plenty of issues. She struggles all the way up until you talk to her on Earth. That's more than evident. There's going to be a lot Shepard and Miranda are going to need to talk about once they find each other.

[Stalker]

wright1978 wrote...

Well i was never bothered about having the big show down with her dad in ME3. However once that became the crux of her mission i was amazed at how little there was to it. Guess it is just undercooked, like everything else from Sanctuary onwards feels.

Sanctuary is a great example of how empty ME3 actually is. There are a lot of open questions, additional answers in form of conversation would probably "break the flow of the game" (sorry, still mad at Weekes' comments...) and we are left with lots of speculations.

In ME2, you always had the opportunity to ask: "What happened?" / "How old is your sister?" / "Why did he do that?"... ME3 just doesn't have deep conversations like that.

When they already go with her daddy issues, then at least they could have put effort into it and provide a satsifying conclusion. Now, she meets her own maniac father after all that build-up and she just throws him out the window with some one-liner... dissapointing.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 29 juillet 2012 - 08:27 .

[Taboo]

Mr Massakka wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Well i was never bothered about having the big show down with her dad in ME3. However once that became the crux of her mission i was amazed at how little there was to it. Guess it is just undercooked, like everything else from Sanctuary onwards feels.

Sanctuary is a great example of how empty ME3 actually is. There are a lot of open questions, additional answers in form of conversation would probably "break the flow of the game" (sorry, still mad at Weekes' comments...) and we are left with lots of speculations.

In ME2, you always had the opportunity to ask: "What happened?" / "How old is your sister?" / "Why did he do that?"... ME3 just doesn't have deep conversations like that.

When they already go with her daddy issues, then at least they could have put effort into it and provide a satsifying conclusion. Now, she meets her own maniac father after all that build-up and she just throws him out the window with some one-liner... dissapointing.

That's entirely reliant on the fact that she was shoehorned in favor of the other characters. New players don't know who she is at all. She isn't even loyal if you don't import. 

But this happens to a lot of characters. Jack has next to nothing. Miranda got more than she did.

If you noticed, Jack is also dead on a non import playthrough.

So...yeah.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 29 juillet 2012 - 08:37 .

[Stalker]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Well i was never bothered about having the big show down with her dad in ME3. However once that became the crux of her mission i was amazed at how little there was to it. Guess it is just undercooked, like everything else from Sanctuary onwards feels.

Sanctuary is a great example of how empty ME3 actually is. There are a lot of open questions, additional answers in form of conversation would probably "break the flow of the game" (sorry, still mad at Weekes' comments...) and we are left with lots of speculations.

In ME2, you always had the opportunity to ask: "What happened?" / "How old is your sister?" / "Why did he do that?"... ME3 just doesn't have deep conversations like that.

When they already go with her daddy issues, then at least they could have put effort into it and provide a satsifying conclusion. Now, she meets her own maniac father after all that build-up and she just throws him out the window with some one-liner... dissapointing.

That's entirely reliant on the fact that she was shoehorned in favor of the other characters. New players don't know who she is at all. She isn't even loyal if you don't import. 

But this happens to a lot of characters. Jack has next to nothing. Miranda got more than she did.

If you noticed, Jack is also dead on a non import playthrough.

So...yeah.

I don't see how that's a problem.

What's so bad about immersing new players into the father story as well and let Miranda talk to him?

[Taboo]

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't see how that's a problem.

What's so bad about immersing new players into the father story as well and let Miranda talk to him?

You used the word empty in your post. That's a great word to describe some sections of ME3, especially when Walters wrote it. There is little to know emotional connection to these characters to new players. Some of us have been Miranda fans since the games release. Others have not.

If Mass Effect 3 accomplished anything, it ensured that people who have been there since the start were isolated. New players have no idea who Miranda is and haven't experienced her past struggles. We're more attached to the character than they are. It makes little sense to make the effot to introduce her character again to old players and to new players. This happens in films too. They keep them in small roles or even in cameos, to ensure that other characters get the focus.

Understand that this issue has nothing to do with money. Bioware simply didn't want Miranda in the game more.

[hot_heart]

Taboo-XX wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

hot_heart wrote...
I get the feeling the control chip conversation was supposed to be her getting over all these issues. D'oh.

It was a touching scene, but there really should have been more than just the control chip. 

She still has plenty of issues. She struggles all the way up until you talk to her on Earth. That's more than evident. There's going to be a lot Shepard and Miranda are going to need to talk about once they find each other.

That's what we're saying.

[Taboo]

hot_heart wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

hot_heart wrote...
I get the feeling the control chip conversation was supposed to be her getting over all these issues. D'oh.

It was a touching scene, but there really should have been more than just the control chip. 

She still has plenty of issues. She struggles all the way up until you talk to her on Earth. That's more than evident. There's going to be a lot Shepard and Miranda are going to need to talk about once they find each other.

That's what we're saying.

I think the intention of the scene is pretty clear. Both are devoted to the cause they have and for but a brief moment they find comfort in one another. They can't hold it in any longer. She wants him and he wants her, but they don't want to cause interference with each others mission. But, like all people who care about one another, they break under pressure just for that one moment.

The scene is about that, not tantric apartment sex. I'm more than certain that once they had both "finished" they talked a bit and then it was straight to business.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 29 juillet 2012 - 09:33 .