82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Skullheart]

They doon't want to fix those things. They didn't even put much effort regarding the ME2 characters in the EC. Just slides, they didn't even cared for them like they did for their favorite characters.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I'm not particularly happy about her limited involvement, but I'm not furious that whomever wrote her in ME3 humanized her more.

That may have been the intent, but that's not what really happened. Caring about one's sister (and possibly one's romantic partner) to the exclusion of all else doesn't make one more human or a better person.

Especially when a war is going on and the organisation you used to work for is directly responsable for a lot of suffering.

In ME2, Miranda was determined to save a lot of lives in the Suicide Mission, did that make her less of a person back then? Less human?

I think it's true, on the other hand, that Miranda's content in ME3 is not really intended to be solely focused on Orianna (+ romance). It just tends to come across that way.

Modifié par flemm, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .

[dtrain24]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I don't think Miranda would be polite to Liara. I think it would be a VERY VERY Thinly veiled threat.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right, lol. Especially because of Liara not wanting to let Shepard go, to put it lightly.

[LanceSolous13]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

krukow wrote...

Doesn't she already have a spaceworthy craft? I thought she was in charge of some sort of ex cerberus fighter squadron or something?

In my headcanon that poor attempt at fixing her character never happened. It's plain and simple stupid.

In my headcanon, it's what she's already trying to do when you first meet her.

Agreed.

[Stalker]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

krukow wrote...

Doesn't she already have a spaceworthy craft? I thought she was in charge of some sort of ex cerberus fighter squadron or something?

In my headcanon that poor attempt at fixing her character never happened. It's plain and simple stupid.

In my headcanon, it's what she's already trying to do when you first meet her.

Agreed.

I don't seem to understand. You mean she's already trying to unite a fighter squadron when you first meet her?

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:01 .

[Taboo]

Well in theory the reason that it's that way is because the focus was on the crew. People care about the Normandy Crew as well.

Miranda has four different slides, a unique piece of music and a Flashback.

That really isn't a lot but I'm not going to complain too much because I'm glad she got anything at all.

As for not caring, you don't know that, as the lead writer is not in charge of the DLC, Patrick Weekes is, as is Michael Gamble. Both of those men are more than capable of understanding the lack of Miranda is upsetting for people.

However it is ultimately up to them if they wish to do something. If you continue to show interest, the chances increase. Being sullen all the time isn't going to do anyone any good.

[LanceSolous13]

Oops. I accidentally quoted the wrong post. *facepalm*

[LanceSolous13]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, at least I missed having been called stupid for having a different opinion. Always disappointing to see emotions getting the better of reason. I'd rather have arguments instead...

You tried to justify murder on the basis of a difference of culture. Thats just bad no matter how you look at it. 
Any cultures that practice free murder must either be corrected, dismantled, or entirely eradicated.

Agreed.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
 Being sullen all the time isn't going to do anyone any good.

Agreed.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I'm not particularly happy about her limited involvement, but I'm not furious that whomever wrote her in ME3 humanized her more.

That may have been the intent, but that's not what really happened. Caring about one's sister (and possibly one's romantic partner) to the exclusion of all else doesn't make one more human or a better person.

Especially when a war is going on and the organisation you used to work for is directly responsable for a lot of suffering.

In ME2, Miranda was determined to save a lot of lives in the Suicide Mission, did that make her less of a person? Less human?

I think it's true, on the other hand, that Miranda's content in ME3 is not really intended to be solely focused on Orianna (+ romance). It just tends to come across that way.

That was my point actually. She's obsessed with finding her sister. I can understand this completely, as she's the only family member she has (I suppose one might consider Shepard was as well if she's romanced, Miranda probably would).

They tried very much to make her appear less cold, and in some ways they succeeded but at the expense of her visible dedication to stopping the Reapers. What she needs more than anything is a DLC that is focused on the War Effort or something to that degree. A Cerberus DLC could add more insight into the now ridiculous Cerberus. A DLC with her looking into a Reaper threat would also do something.

I prefer the latter, as Cerberus needs some bandages in terms of how they were painted.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:07 .

[hot_heart]

I think it's safe to say we were all dissatisfied with Miranda's role in ME3. I don't believe it's so much that she's out of character but that because of the 'excuse' they chose to justify her absence, she comes across a bit one-sided.

I mean, if she'd told us she was off to kick some Cerberus butt, the player would be wondering why the hell they weren't invited (and probably why she 'stumbled upon' Sanctuary in her search, rather than it being a target she could tell Shepard about, as the Cronos logs had implied). Instead BioWare went with the most convenient, established bit of character detail.

Modifié par hot_heart, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:10 .

[jtav]

I actually think Miranda comes off as less human in ME3. Where's the remorse over the things she actually did? You know, being TIM's right hand until six months ago and therefore helping them grow in power. The rage? The sense of betrayal? But nope. Doesn't matter. If I were to try to make sense of it at face value (as opposed to just saying bad and somewhat misogynistic writing and ignoring everything beyond Ori being kidnapped and Miranda being sick with worry) I'd say she was mentally ill. ME3 Miranda is worthy of nothing but contempt and distatse. Not even hatred. She's too small for that.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
They tried very much to make her appear less cold, and in some ways they succeeded but at the expense of her visible dedication to stopping the Reapers. What she needs more than anything is a DLC that is focused on the War Effort or something to that degree. A Cerberus DLC could add more insight into the now ridiculous Cerberus. A DLC with her looking into a Reaper threat would also do something.

Of course, we mostly see her interacting with Shepard. And I think all would agree that it makes sense for her to be open with Shepard at this point in their relationship (especially if romanced, but even if not).

We only see her more efficient, business-like side briefly because we only see her active during a mission very briefly. So, this is the type of thing that is easily solved via more content.

But anyway, I agree that what we need is to see her focused on the war effort in a DLC.

I believe it's actually very damaging to Miranda's character for her not to *care* very much about what is happening around her (Cerberus + the Reapers), or it would be if that were actually the intent. I mean, all sentient life is at stake, can we really be sitting here having an argument about whether Miranda should *care* about this? Whether she should be trying to do something about it?

This is the same person who risked everything, including her own life, to save some human colonies only a few short months ago! Are we sure she is more human now?

This wasn't the intent, I get that. We do need to see more of it, though.

Modifié par flemm, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:21 .

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

I actually think Miranda comes off as less human in ME3. Where's the remorse over the things she actually did? You know, being TIM's right hand until six months ago and therefore helping them grow in power. The rage? The sense of betrayal? But nope. Doesn't matter. If I were to try to make sense of it at face value (as opposed to just saying bad and somewhat misogynistic writing and ignoring everything beyond Ori being kidnapped and Miranda being sick with worry) I'd say she was mentally ill. ME3 Miranda is worthy of nothing but contempt and distatse. Not even hatred. She's too small for that.

Don't bring misogyny into the debate. There are things out there that are so terrible not even I would dare post them on this forum. Misogyny is the hatred of women, not a simplified characterization. I cannot describe how much Miranda ISN'T portrayed in that light.

She's more alone now if you've noticed. She has no real contacts outside of Cerberus or the Normandy Crew. She states this in ME2. If anything her loneliness has been exacerbated. She still gets the job done because she's Miranda, but she's a lot less stable. I would imagine Shepard breaking up with her would be absolutely terrible for her. Truly alone again.

If you'd like to talk about the effects of that Miranda is a prime example. Lonliness and Isolation do funny things to people. That isn't misogyny as much as it is playing off of a character trait to string the plot along.

Miranda serves a purpose in the story, but she's downplayed in favor of the other characters.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
That isn't misogyny as much as it is playing off of a character trait to string the plot along.

Yes, that's exactly what it is. I believe you're right.

I still believe it needs to be fixed, though.

[Skullheart]

Miranda main purpose in the game was to die, to make the new players feel sad about a character.

[krukow]

Skullheart wrote...

Miranda main purpose in the game was to die, to make the new players feel sad about a character.

Critical Mission Failure yo.

[Taboo]

Skullheart wrote...

Miranda main purpose in the game was to die, to make the new players feel sad about a character.

Considering the higher amount of sales will come from the established fan base I would say that this is false.

If this was the case she would have died regardless.

She was NOT forced into as big of a hole as Jacob,Thane, and Jack.

[krukow]

miri actually balances right between the extended cameo all the other ME2 characters get, and the fulltime status ME3 characters get.

She really does get the best treatment of any non squad member. Not saying she shouldn't have been a full member, but all things considered it was pretty decent.

[Skullheart]

But the game wasn't made for the established fanbase, they appealed the game to new players (main reason of Vega existence.)

And they never though in a living Miranda scenario until late. You don't gain nothing with her alive, and the mail is just damage control after the leak.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

She really does get the best treatment of any non squad member. Not saying she shouldn't have been a full member, but all things considered it was pretty decent.

It really depends on how you look at it. Anyway, I will not let any weaknesses of the writing or implementation in this game affect my enjoyment of the character.

I think certain things really need to be improved, though.

[Taboo]

Skullheart wrote...

But the game wasn't made for the established fanbase, they appealed the game to new players (main reason of Vega existence.)

And they never though in a living Miranda scenario until late. You don't gain nothing with her alive, and the mail is just damage control after the leak.

And yet they attempted to salvage something with the EC.

The game was geared to be more mainstream. Not towards one crowd.

It was simplified to make way for new players, but the guaranteed sales always come from the established fanbase.

This is a marketing technique. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

They failed this time around.

[krukow]

flemm wrote...

krukow wrote...

She really does get the best treatment of any non squad member. Not saying she shouldn't have been a full member, but all things considered it was pretty decent.

It really depends on how you look at it. Anyway, I will not let any weaknesses of the writing or implementation in this game affect my enjoyment of the character.

I think certain things really need to be improved, though.

I just mean that she has the largest presence.  She's the first one to show up, and the last one you meet (horizon, just before cerberus).  She has 4 conversations, plus an actual hookup scene if you romanced her (not a full one, but it's better than the kiss that Jack gets).  And her own piano score for that scene.

I mean, compare her to Jack and it's not close...

[flemm]

krukow wrote...
I just mean that she has the largest presence.  She's the first one to show up, and the last one you meet (horizon, just before cerberus).  She has 4 conversations, plus an actual hookup scene if you romanced her (not a full one, but it's better than the kiss that Jack gets).  And her own piano score for that scene.

I mean, compare her to Jack and it's not close...

That's true, and no doubt the desire to have her appear regularly throughout the game and approximate a regular romance arc affected how her role was handled, as well as the fact that Sanctuary is late in the game, and so was affected by the crunch (nothing after Rannoch is really very good).

So, it is what it is.

[Skullheart]

Legion and Mordin have more content, and quality than her.

And Miranda might be the only ME2 character with almost no grow. The rest of the characters are better than what they were in ME2, Miranda is worse than what she was in ME2.