82210 réponses à ce sujet

[krukow]

Legion and Mordin have more content because their stuff is directly plot related.
They both die too, so call it a push.

And I don't think Miranda is worse, just different. I wish they'd expanded on her leaving cerberus and how it betrayed her ideals, but it is what it is...

Top Miri cuz I CAN


Seriously, how can you see that and then not shoot the tube??

Modifié par krukow, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:45 .

[flemm]

Skullheart wrote...

Legion and Mordin have more content, and quality than her.

Technically, I believe Miranda's role is larger, due to variants. But spread out more and less integral to the plot. Of course, Miranda has romance variants, etc.

[jtav]

I'd prefer an always dead Miranda with a role comparable to Mordin's. Better still is a role comparable to Mordin's where she can live but if I had to choose...

And ironically, Miranda and Mordin both only give you 25 points. It's just that Mordin's survival is part of a larger choice. Miranda's is a lot of hoop-jumping for nothing much.

Modifié par jtav, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:49 .

[Taboo]

Skullheart wrote...

Legion and Mordin have more content, and quality than her.

And Miranda might be the only ME2 character with almost no grow. The rest of the characters are better than what they were in ME2, Miranda is worse than what she was in ME2.

You need to look at her face. Miranda shows more on her face than any other chracter in the series.

She isn't outwardly expressive.

Simply showing a public display of affection in ME3 tells you a great deal.

It's the same way in Santuary.

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You need to look at her face. Miranda shows more on her face than any other chracter in the series.

As much as I want to say Ash is just as good, there are small things in just the first Miri conversation alone that change depending on romance or not that or just such excellent touches.

...So yeah, Miri's face is REALLY well done in this game.

[flemm]

At any rate, it's always been possible to take what's here, add stuff, and make it good.

Which is why I hope they add stuff

Modifié par flemm, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:54 .

[Taboo]

This is why I get so excited about comparative shot analysis.

Miranda's emotions are shown through framing of the face in close up. That's a risky thing to do as if the model or actor doesn't express correctly **** can get real goofy REAL fast.

Or she's framed in a bull body shot to exemplify herself through body language.

These are the most telling signs of who Miranda really is.

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...
You need to look at her face. Miranda shows more on her face than any other chracter in the series.

She isn't outwardly expressive.

Simply showing a public display of affection in ME3 tells you a great deal.

It's the same way in Santuary.

I believe Skull is referring to her role and how it was diminished between games, not her happiness.

Liara: Archeologist to Shadow Broker
Garrus: C-Sec officer to turian warleader and in line of sucession for the Primacy
Tali: Teenager on her pilgrimage to admiral
Wrex: Mercenary to Clan Chief
Jack: Wanted criminal to teacher
VS: Alliance grunt to Spectre
Miranda: Cell Leader of Cerberus to...well...uh...something.

Modifié par MisterJB, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:56 .

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

These are the most telling signs of who Miranda really is.

That's not how it works. There is no "real" Miranda in that sense. It's words and images. You can create the illusion of reality in your mind based on that, but that's in your mind.

Modifié par flemm, 31 juillet 2012 - 12:59 .

[MisterJB]

krukow wrote...

Legion and Mordin have more content because their stuff is directly plot related.
They both die too, so call it a push.

And I don't think Miranda is worse, just different. I wish they'd expanded on her leaving cerberus and how it betrayed her ideals, but it is what it is...

Miranda had stronger ties than anyone to a plotlines that is just as, if not more, important as the Genophage. Cerberus.
Had they expanded on it, it could have been good. As it stands, it's bad. Really, really bad-

[krukow]

They had to let EDI do the cerberus stuff, so we could enjoy her fully rendered cameltoe.

...then you explain it!

I mean, really, I'm watching vids on cerberus' recreating of shep, and there's no Miri to get feedback from? I mean, I enjoy that at least Ash is the one interacting with me there, but still!

[Skullheart]

Miranda was the most trusted operative of TIM, she believes in what Cerberus stands for, however she doesn't have much voice about that in ME3. That is the most disappointing thing from her character in ME3, al, her believes were betrayed and she just doesn't cares about that.

And JB is right from what I meant before (Miranda being, something).

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

These are the most telling signs of who Miranda really is.

That's not how it works. There is no "real" Miranda. It's words and images.

It is how it works. This is how the theory of the image works. This has been going for for over one hundred years. A film is no different. It is not a real person, it is an image and sound.

The shot are composed accordingly and for a reason.

An image is "real" when it is shown in in such a manner. You accept it as "true", even if it is in a fictional story. That's how the brain works and why you care about the characters.

Mass Effect's cutscenes are structure like a films. They even have an option to enable film grain, which makes the game look as if it was shot on 35mm film.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 31 juillet 2012 - 01:05 .

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

An image is "real" when it is showin in such a manner. You accept it as "true", even if it is in a fictional story.

An image is real, but it is still an image. An image of a person is not a person, and never will be.

While experiencing fiction, you may suspend disbelief to the point of believing it to be real if you so choose. But that is not conducive to understanding it. Rather the opposite.

The analogy I like to use are the two pills in the Matrix. Blue = believing the illusion is real. Red = understanding the illusion as an illusion (or, in this case, the fiction as fiction).

Modifié par flemm, 31 juillet 2012 - 01:10 .

[krukow]

What's taboo is saying (I think?) is that the body language of Miranda, and her facial expressions, tell you as much about the character as any line of dialogue ever could. Yeah, she's a computer generated thing, but the computer generated body language and expressions (mapped from real people maybe?) are TELLING you something.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

What's taboo is saying (I think?) is that the body language of Miranda, and her facial expressions, tell you as much about the character as any line of dialogue ever could. Yeah, she's a computer generated thing, but the computer generated body language and expressions (mapped from real people maybe?) are TELLING you something.

Agreed. In the sense that they can be interpreted to have meaning. But... probably in a number of different ways.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

An image is "real" when it is showin in such a manner. You accept it as "true", even if it is in a fictional story.

An image is real, but it is still an image. An image of a person is not a person, and never will be.

While experiencing fiction, you may suspend disbelief to the point of believing it to be real if you so choose. But that is not conducive to understanding it. Rather the opposite.

The analogy I like to use are the two pills in the Matrix.

Yes. That's the point. It isn't real.

But the brain does not work that way. That's why you're scared when something pops out from offscreen.

A character is a fictional entity, but words and images offer an opportunity that others do not. You can interpret things for character analysis through body language and sounds.

Take Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver, you understand a lot about him by looking at his face and peering into his mental state. Tics on the face tell you quite a bit.

A famous example of a director who utilized this was Yasujiro Ozu. His characters showed emotion through the face and body language. They are made three dimensional by this fact.

This is what seperates three dimensional characters from one dimensional ones.

Stanley Kubrick has this issue sometimes.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 31 juillet 2012 - 01:14 .

[krukow]

I don't know that I agree. Look at the first time Miri sees shep. If you didn't romance her, she's happy to see him, but if you romanced her? There's just this look of pure joy/happiness on her face that's tough to describe, but the difference between the two is striking, yet completely subtle.

The designers/programmers (forget if there's an actual term) outdid themselves in some ways.

Edit: was disagreeing with Flem's thought that you could take things any number of ways.

Modifié par krukow, 31 juillet 2012 - 01:18 .

[enayasoul]

Miranda's feelings of betrayal from Cerberus could be explained if they did further DLC to explain this. To say she doesn't care... we don't know that. They haven't told us otherwise. A DLC explaining this would have helped. To show Miranda doing stuff to help with the war would have been good. To say that Miranda didn't grow or was some imposter is simply ridiculous. I quite enjoyed the Miranda conversations we did get. I just wished there was more content!

They bioware or ea whoever just didn't spend a lot of time on it... did they even have enough time? I think NO! I would have waited another year to get the game right and the best ever but it's not. It's empty and rushed on certain parts... and not enough Miranda content. Jack and Ashley needed more content. Having Ash sit and say good to see you was disappointing.

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

I don't know that I agree. Look at the first time Miri sees shep. If you didn't romance her, she's happy to see him, but if you romanced her? There's just this look of pure joy/happiness on her face that's tough to describe, but the difference between the two is striking, yet completely subtle.

The designers/programmers (forget if there's an actual term) outdid themselves in some ways.

That's my point.

Just looking at her face tells you what's going on on the inside.

She's overjoyed but she just doesn't express it because she's Miranda.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

I don't know that I agree. Look at the first time Miri sees shep. If you didn't romance her, she's happy to see him, but if you romanced her? There's just this look of pure joy/happiness on her face that's tough to describe, but the difference between the two is striking, yet completely subtle.

Well, I'm not sure. My point isn't that we should split hairs necessarily on every detail. What you say there sounds plausible enough.

[enayasoul]

flemm wrote...

At any rate, it's always been possible to take what's here, add stuff, and make it good.

Which is why I hope they add stuff

Thank you flemm!   This is what can and needs to happen.  Add to the stuff to make it better... I still have hope they can make the game better with DLC's.  They really dropped the ball on this game which makes me .  I'm not the only one that felt this way... I had this conversation with a co-worker.  He was disappointed... And I raved about ME to him and everyone I knew!  He bought the games because of my feedback.  Now we both bummed.  I loved Bioware as a game developer... we'll see what happens with Mass Effect's DLC.  Make or break.

 

[Taboo]

It matters in this case because it happens all the time.

Bioware went out of there way to do it to. That's my point.

Go back and look at the ME2 cutscenes and look at how they're framed when something pivotal comes up with Miranda.

There's your answer.

[krukow]

Yeah, and any performance leaves area for interpretation, but I do think Miranda's face and body language is very emotive. Quite an accomplishment for the designers (especially considering this is the game with sideways running in vancouver. D'oh!)

It's not just Miri either, Ashley gets a few scenes where her facial expression can change based on slight things. When you tell her you want to be with her on Mars, it's excellent.

But this is the Miri thread, back to her.

I'm playing my ME2 mirimance tonight, and I gotta ask: Why is stealing the kiss in the renegade spot? How is that renegade?

I don't care, I'm stealing the kiss...

[Taboo]

I'd like to think that there will be plenty of kisses when Miranda finds Shepard.

But for now we'll have to settle for the kiss on the cheek and the fade to black, in which there was probably kissing.

Everyone loves kisses.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 31 juillet 2012 - 01:29 .