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[krukow]

fiendishchicken wrote...I would argue Javik shakes up the boat a bit as only Garrus and James seem to like him, although Garrus thinks he fights war for it's own sake. Tali and Liara are upset at his blunt and callous attitude towards war and death, EDI doesn't like him because of his attitude towards synthetic life, and I have seen no interaction between Javik and the VS.

...I'm pretty sure Tali likes Javik just fine


Top Miri will CAP you!

Modifié par krukow, 06 août 2012 - 03:12 .

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
That isn't a very good excuse.

Well, the devs try to establish a certain feel for the game. Miranda was very important to the "feel" of ME2, so that was probably one argument against her returning in a prominent role in ME3.

Basically what they did was give her dialogues throughout the game so that players who wanted to romance her could do that and have a reasonably satisfying experience.

Unfortunately the role doesn't really add up to much otherwise.

[Taboo]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Beside the point though, Another thing I headcanon is Miranda is still trying to come to terms with her feelings towards Shepard. She hasn't told him about her infertility, she still hasn't really opened up about herself much to him, and she is trying to put some distance between them so that she will not be as badly hurt if he dies.

"She's uncertain if she likes him but knows she really loves him."

^ Although the context of the song is a bit...out there (Thanks David) it's an intereseting thing to ponder.

I'd say she's more concerned with distracting him and he her. That could lead to complications.

And then the apartment scene...there it is.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

<3:wub:<3:wub:

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 août 2012 - 03:18 .

[MACharlie1]

Miranda in ME3....hm..

I've played through a number of times and I have to say: they really have no idea how to write this character. Which is why I imagine that they didn't have more of her. In ME2, her writers were all over the place. One minute she's cold, next she's warm. Etc. etc. Her character arc suffered because she jumps from being Cerberus sympathizer to Shepard loyalist without any real meat in between. She's a Shepard loyalist even without the loyalty mission when Shepard destroys the base. We never saw the conflict she'd have - it was too sudden. She didn't have her own writer to give her the attention she needed. Jack had Weekes from the beginning I believe so she was set.

Now we get to ME3 and she's slammed into her loyalty mission 2.0 because THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO. Notice the way she talks too. It's much softer then ME2. Like they attempted to make her a seductress. I just watched her ME2 trailer - the voice acting is different. More forceful and business. She's lost that totally. That doesn't happen with people when they've had a change of heart. And then they gave her the contrived "dies of a broken heart" bull****...anyway, hers story was kind of an afterthought. They had everyone else in place and didn't want to move anyone around for her so stuck her in the mission before Chronos.

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Beside the point though, Another thing I headcanon is Miranda is still trying to come to terms with her feelings towards Shepard. She hasn't told him about her infertility, she still hasn't really opened up about herself much to him, and she is trying to put some distance between them so that she will not be as badly hurt if he dies.

"She's uncertain if she likes him but knows she really loves him."

^ Although the context of the song is a bit...out there (Thanks David) it's an intereseting thing to ponder.

I'd say she's more concerned with distracting him and he her. That could lead to complications.

And then the apartment scene...there it is.

What I mean is she's afraid that she's going to get hurt in the end. She's never connected with someone on the level she has with Shepard, and she's extremely uncomfortable with the amount of attachment she has with him. She is in love with him, but she's afraid of being in love with him. And she tends to let her thoughts in certain circumstances get the better of her. She's afraid Shepard won't care about her if he finds out she can't have children and she doesn't want him to feel like he's tied down to her. She hasn't yet grasped the fact that Shepard is madly in love with her as well, and his love is truly unconditional. Much as she accepts him for everything he is, He does the same with her. 

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
That isn't a very good excuse.

Well, the devs try to establish a certain feel for the game. Miranda was very important to the "feel" of ME2, so that was probably one argument against her returning in a prominent role in ME3.

Basically what they did was give her dialogues throughout the game so that players who wanted to romance her could do that and have a reasonably satisfying experience.

Unfortunately the role doesn't really add up to much otherwise.

There is no feel for the ME3. It's filled with forced symbolism and attempts at brooding as mature.

That's one of the things I noticed playing through the game again.

You get bright spots, like Tuchanka and Rannoch, but for the most part the game feels like a failed Stanley Kubrick film. It's cold and and lifeless.

[spirosz]

jtav wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

jtav wrote...

She's human, would force them too admit to shades of grey in Cerberus, and doesn't really fit the new squad.

And Tali does?

Vega?

EDI?

The seven base game squad members are all basically nice people who get along. Miranda introduces inter[ersonal conflict the writers don't seem to want.

Javik would disagree. 

[spirosz]

MACharlie1 wrote...

snip*

I agree with this, one thing that always bugged me was I loved her during Freedom's Progress - "I'm not looking for a friend, Shepard" to "Oh hey, let's talk about my past because you've earned my trust in 5 minutes".... yeah no. I love her character, but I agree with her arc being all over the place, it wasn't consistent enough to the point where it could of flowed better into ME3, especially because they don't even consider if she leaves Cerberus or not, they could of used that for her plot, instead of Oriana 2.0. 

Modifié par spirosz, 06 août 2012 - 03:26 .

[Babi_Siha]

spirosz wrote...

jtav wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

jtav wrote...

She's human, would force them too admit to shades of grey in Cerberus, and doesn't really fit the new squad.

And Tali does?

Vega?

EDI?

The seven base game squad members are all basically nice people who get along. Miranda introduces inter[ersonal conflict the writers don't seem to want.

Javik would disagree.

Ashley and Liara as well, since they were both going at each other's throat when I took them on missions, especially Ashley.

[jtav]

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

[krukow]

jtav wrote...

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

Jack gets two scenes and a kiss (I think she gets a kiss?). 

And the goodbye transmissions aren't even close in comparison (Miri's is SO MUCH BETTER).

Jack may have growth, but it's all offscreen anyways (we dont' see her grow, we see what she's become.  Kinda like Liara in ME2).

[Babi_Siha]

jtav wrote...

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

Jack's growth always strikes me as forced. A person doesn't stop being a psycotic **** in a period of six months. I liked what they did with the character, but I don't see a change like that happening that soon. And I don't agree it feels like Jack, she's still a ****, but her suddenly caring about other people and forgeting all that hatred? Not likely.

[spirosz]

jtav wrote...

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

Well, she suffers from the same thing Miranda does, in the sense if you do a certain thing with her, she's exactly the same. I'm mostly speaking from the romance aspect, as the main complaint is that it's all phyiscal and there's no emotion, as to what ME2 builds up with Shepard and Jack, that emotional aspect is what drew me towards her in the first place. As with Miranda and her Cerberus ties, if you choose to have her stay with Cerberus in ME2, she'll "leave" in ME3 regardless of your choice and I understand that she technically had to go "rogue", but I thought it could of been a way more interesting way to put her in the game without losing her quality. 

[spirosz]

Babi_Siha wrote...

jtav wrote...

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

Jack's growth always strikes me as forced. A person doesn't stop being a psycotic **** in a period of six months. I liked what they did with the character, but I don't see a change like that happening that soon. And I don't agree it feels like Jack, she's still a ****, but her suddenly caring about other people and forgeting all that hatred? Not likely.

She always cared, it was just never her way to show it and when she does, she shows it in a way that would seem awkward or not what the crew would expect, since most of the crew has grown up in a pretty stable condition, obviously everyone has baggage, but Jack has many layers that she hides that love and care under, where as, someone like Liara or Tali would be more open to expressing themselves in that way, IMO. 

Modifié par spirosz, 06 août 2012 - 03:39 .

[Taboo]

fiendishchicken wrote...

What I mean is she's afraid that she's going to get hurt in the end. She's never connected with someone on the level she has with Shepard, and she's extremely uncomfortable with the amount of attachment she has with him. She is in love with him, but she's afraid of being in love with him. And she tends to let her thoughts in certain circumstances get the better of her. She's afraid Shepard won't care about her if he finds out she can't have children and she doesn't want him to feel like he's tied down to her. She hasn't yet grasped the fact that Shepard is madly in love with her as well, and his love is truly unconditional. Much as she accepts him for everything he is, He does the same with her. 

The relationship certainly seems to be on the forefront of her thoughts. It's the second thing she brings up after Earth.

She's never had a relationship like this before. She talks about being cautious in ME2 but  also interested. It's quite evident that it become more than that to her. Trouble is she can't know how Shepard is going to feel after six months.

When you re-effirm feelings for her she asks about second thoughts and backing out. I feel she's expressed her concerns through those lines alone. Would he have second thoughts? Would he back out? She has an extraordinary way of emoting subconsciously, that's a great scene for it. Her words echo her once held fear.

But once it's reaffirmed she disappears again, and only meets up with him when she has relevant information to share, but interestly enough, she mentions she would have preferred seeing him in person. The next time, she does see him in person and we all know what the inevitable result is. A culmination of repressed feelings happens and it's cathartic. But once it's over, she leaves again, but not before sending him a message telling him Good Luck.

She gets caught in her own words in Santuary, when Sheapard says he can't promise to be safe.

She's still in doubt at the goodbye scene, but that's the last "Brick in the Wall" I suppose, when Shepard reaffirms the relationship.

A LOT is going to be said when they find each other. Good things of course.

[MACharlie1]

Babi_Siha wrote...

jtav wrote...

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

Jack's growth always strikes me as forced. A person doesn't stop being a psycotic **** in a period of six months. I liked what they did with the character, but I don't see a change like that happening that soon. And I don't agree it feels like Jack, she's still a ****, but her suddenly caring about other people and forgeting all that hatred? Not likely.

I think that was the point of Jacks arc was that she wasn't a psychotic killer. Everytime she kills it's because she's threatened. She doesn't kill indiscrimintly like everyone in the game makes her out to be. And yeah - she's a **** but so is Miranda, Ashley and Liara. It's not that Jack HATED people. She hated a lot of people for sure like anyone in Cerberus - I mean you would too. Anyone would after going through Pragia. And she clearly still does in ME3. 

[Babi_Siha]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

jtav wrote...

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

Jack's growth always strikes me as forced. A person doesn't stop being a psycotic **** in a period of six months. I liked what they did with the character, but I don't see a change like that happening that soon. And I don't agree it feels like Jack, she's still a ****, but her suddenly caring about other people and forgeting all that hatred? Not likely.

I think that was the point of Jacks arc was that she wasn't a psychotic killer. Everytime she kills it's because she's threatened. She doesn't kill indiscrimintly like everyone in the game makes her out to be. And yeah - she's a **** but so is Miranda, Ashley and Liara. It's not that Jack HATED people. She hated a lot of people for sure like anyone in Cerberus - I mean you would too. Anyone would after going through Pragia. And she clearly still does in ME3. 

Yeah? And all that pirating she did was all out of the kindness of her heart? Seriously though, I never said she was a bad person and the stuff about the layers are true. But she's gone through a bunch of *hit to get over her issues in such a short time.

[Taboo]

At some point you have to suspend your disbelief.

It makes little sense but you have to deal with it.

EDI states that Jack hasn't changed much, I disagree, she's certainly more expressive than she was before.

Simply talking to her though in ME2 will eventually lead to thank yous.

That's a step up from "**** you sound like a *ussy." only a month or so before.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 06 août 2012 - 03:52 .

[spirosz]

Babi_Siha wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

jtav wrote...

Weekes didn't write Jack in ME2 and has gone on record as disliking her before he took on the challenge of writing her. But Jack's content feels dense than Miranda's and there's growth while still feeling very much lie Jack. Miranda is blurred and indistinct.

Jack's growth always strikes me as forced. A person doesn't stop being a psycotic **** in a period of six months. I liked what they did with the character, but I don't see a change like that happening that soon. And I don't agree it feels like Jack, she's still a ****, but her suddenly caring about other people and forgeting all that hatred? Not likely.

I think that was the point of Jacks arc was that she wasn't a psychotic killer. Everytime she kills it's because she's threatened. She doesn't kill indiscrimintly like everyone in the game makes her out to be. And yeah - she's a **** but so is Miranda, Ashley and Liara. It's not that Jack HATED people. She hated a lot of people for sure like anyone in Cerberus - I mean you would too. Anyone would after going through Pragia. And she clearly still does in ME3. 

Yeah? And all that pirating she did was all out of the kindness of her heart? Seriously though, I never said she was a bad person and the stuff about the layers are true. But she's gone through a bunch of *hit to get over her issues in such a short time.

It's never stated that's she gotten over it, no way. It's that she's trying to become something more than what she's been labled over the years.

Modifié par spirosz, 06 août 2012 - 03:56 .

[krukow]

Jack's change is simple. She's the ex-addict who becomes an amazing substance abuse counselor because she sees herself in the kids. Since she doesn't have to spend years getting sober/educated first, the six month timeframe is believable. She is willing to change, becauese doing for those kids what wasn't done for her was worth it. It's not that she was or wasn't a killer, it's that she's found something in this universe that she can dedicate herself to.

Back on topic:
Miri is pretty awesome.

That's all I got.

[spirosz]

krukow wrote...

Jack's change is simple. She's the ex-addict who becomes an amazing substance abuse counselor because she sees herself in the kids. Since she doesn't have to spend years getting sober/educated first, the six month timeframe is believable. She is willing to change, becauese doing for those kids what wasn't done for her was worth it. It's not that she was or wasn't a killer, it's that she's found something in this universe that she can dedicate herself to.

Back on topic:
Miri is pretty awesome.

That's all I got.

Exactly, she's found something positive out of the ****hole.

But yeah, sorry for going off topic, lol. I'm actually glad that Miri and Jack fans are sort of coming together for future DLC, it's good to see  

Modifié par spirosz, 06 août 2012 - 03:58 .

[Babi_Siha]

spirosz wrote...

krukow wrote...

Jack's change is simple. She's the ex-addict who becomes an amazing substance abuse counselor because she sees herself in the kids. Since she doesn't have to spend years getting sober/educated first, the six month timeframe is believable. She is willing to change, becauese doing for those kids what wasn't done for her was worth it. It's not that she was or wasn't a killer, it's that she's found something in this universe that she can dedicate herself to.

Back on topic:
Miri is pretty awesome.

That's all I got.

Exactly, she's found something positive out of the ****hole.

But yeah, sorry for going off topic, lol. I'm actually glad that Miri and Jack fans are sort of coming together for future DLC, it's good to see

I don't think Jack and Miranda fans ever had problems with each other, not that I can think of. I don't like Jack, but I think her fanbase is probably the most normal of the whole BSN. Miranda fanbase could win, but you know, Luis kinda makes that impossible.

[spirosz]

Babi_Siha wrote...

spirosz wrote...

krukow wrote...

Jack's change is simple. She's the ex-addict who becomes an amazing substance abuse counselor because she sees herself in the kids. Since she doesn't have to spend years getting sober/educated first, the six month timeframe is believable. She is willing to change, becauese doing for those kids what wasn't done for her was worth it. It's not that she was or wasn't a killer, it's that she's found something in this universe that she can dedicate herself to.

Back on topic:
Miri is pretty awesome.

That's all I got.

Exactly, she's found something positive out of the ****hole.

But yeah, sorry for going off topic, lol. I'm actually glad that Miri and Jack fans are sort of coming together for future DLC, it's good to see

I don't think Jack and Miranda fans ever had problems with each other, not that I can think of. I don't like Jack, but I think her fanbase is probably the most normal of the whole BSN. Miranda fanbase could win, but you know, Luis kinda makes that impossible.

I always found that to be ironic, lmao. 

[Taboo]

I poked my head in the Tali and Liara threads.

I had no idea it was that bad.

Someone told me the other day that one of the Talimancers actually made a...doll of Tali that was life sized.

Ieldra needs to send me that picture. I don't want to see it. But I kind of want to too.