82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Alternative: she creates her children using a similar technology that created her. That would be a sign she's made peace with her origin. After all, her father's "crime", if you want, was treating his daughter as an object, not creating her in the first place.

The real problem with that, as we have discussed in the past, is that the way Miranda perceives both herself and her achievements is not a direct result of the way her father treated her, but rather of the way she was created. Miranda's child would also suffer from self worth issues and all the love in the world would not make those go away.
Miranda would either have to teach her child how to make peace with it's origins like she did or she could just create a normal child, no enhancements.

I say that the way her father treated her is the reason she has self-esteem issues in the first place. Her origin would be much less of an issue had she had a reasonably normal upbringing. Imagine: the enhancement she has - who wouldn't kill for them, really? The problem is that they were made not for Miranda's benefit, but for a different purpose, and that her father wouldn't let her forget that. That's the primary problem.

As for possible children made possible by technology - the same technology could be used to create children of her and Shepard which would be indistinquishable from children made the usual way. It's just the getting there that would be different. I'd like both alternatives to be imaginable. Certainly Miranda wouldn't want her children to look exactly like her, but she might want them to inherit her fast healing and enhanced learning abilities and make it possible that they inherit them undiluted.

Edit:
Also, what Sleepy Buddha says.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:08 .

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

What I really want is adoption because we don't see enough happily adopted kids in fiction.

I can see that happening, especially after the Reaper war...there's probably going to be many orphans on Earth

[The Uncanny]

jtav wrote...

What I really want is adoption because we don't see enough happily adopted kids in fiction.

The idea that people are capable of being perfectly happy without children is pretty rare too.

[Skullheart]

what if the infertility was part of her father plan. Maybe he know that he couldn't have full control of her daughter, so that was a precaution to avoid his legacy being stained for someone not worthy. He could have a cure, and have planned to use it when he fine a worthy mate for her (incest could be another option, but thats creepier).

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

How do you think the possible scene might be? That possible scene where Miri mentions her infertility to you.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:10 .

[Ieldra]

Actually, I don't need to *see* any of these scenarios I like to imagine. I only want it to be made explicitly clear that it is possible that Miranda passes on her gifts to any children she might have. And that can only be done by a hint that there are ways around her infertility.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:12 .

[Lenimph]

Skullheart wrote...

*snip* when he fine a worthy mate for her (incest could be another option, but thats creepier).

I always thought Miranda hated her father because he was total freak who wanted to ... well yeah... or atleast I always thought there was something more to what Miranda was letting on. 

[Ace Attorney]

Well I just found out Miranda is sterile due to her genetical engineering. There goes all the hopes for Super Genes Shepard Jr.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Well I just found out Miranda is sterile due to her genetical engineering. There goes all the hopes for Super Genes Shepard Jr.

This was known for awhile now. But I know how you feel. 

[themincer]

I think all potential LI's should be full-on, full-time squad members in ME3.

So a definite yes from me for Miranda being a proper squad member ME3.

[Mr Plow]

It would be something if the writers completely ignored this personal issue of infertility (treating it lightly as a DLC Easter Egg that fans can take or leave)

Would there be pitchforks out on here then?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Mr Plow wrote...

It would be something if the writers completely ignored this personal issue of infertility (treating it lightly as a DLC Easter Egg that fans can take or leave)

Would there be pitchforks out on here then?

If they completely ingnore it, with NO DLC, then HELL YES.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:25 .

[LuxDragon]

jtav wrote...

The only part about the dossier I dislike is the subscription and vid book stuff. Don't mind the infertility per se, but I resent it being reduced to a sympathy card. I'd have made it explicit that Lazarus was her way of overcoming it. More than one way to create life. Yes it makes the romance creepy, but I don't care.

I don't see it as creating life rather than restoring it. Big difference.

If she felt like she was creating life, either it's because she passed on something of hers genetically (Which she didn't) or she created life from nothing (Again,  she didn't)

All she did was conquer what was supposed to be the final door in the mortal condition: death.

I really don't see it as creating life at all. Especially since she was supposed to bring Shepard back exactly the way he was.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes, but unsubscribing a scientific journal at the same time is NOT cool.

Unless she thought the articles were written by idiots. After all, what she did will pretty much trump anything they'll ever do.

Modifié par LuxDragon, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:22 .

[MisterJB]

Sleepy Buddha wrote...
Not necessarily. Throughout ME2 she slowly comes to realize (with Shepard's help) that the way she was created merely gave her (the best possible) tools, but her achievements are her own since she made her own choices and acted accordingly. Those insecurities have been mostly stripped away by the end.

That only happens if you follow the Paragon path of the romance. And even then, I doubt Shepard can strip away 35 years of insecurities with a couple of talks. She may have already started to walk down the path towards improvement with Shepard's help, but I think we will have to wait until ME3 to see it come to fruition.
Also, I hope that it will not be dependent upon the romance.

Ieldra2 wrote...
I say that the way her father treated her is the reason she has self-esteem issues in the first place. Her origin would be much less of an issue had she had a reasonably normal upbringing. Imagine: the enhancement she has - who wouldn't kill for them, really? The problem is that they were made not for Miranda's benefit, but for a different purpose, and that her father wouldn't let her forget that. That's the primary problem.

It's obvious that had Mr. Lawson been a different sort of man, Miranda would be a different person. However, I still mantain that self steem issues are inseparable from the type of genetic enhancements that Miranda received. Anytime she won a prize, the tought would always be there on the back of her mind "I don't deserve this. My father paid for it."

jtav wrote...
What I really want is adoption because we don't see enough happily adopted kids in fiction.

Only if it's that kid in the vents.

Skullheart wrote...
 (incest could be another option, but thats creepier)

There has to be a reason he only creates daugthers.

[Ieldra]

T3hAnubis wrote...
Well I just found out Miranda is sterile due to her genetical engineering. There goes all the hopes for Super Genes Shepard Jr.

Actually no. Her genetic engineering is not known to be the cause.

[Ieldra]

Mr Plow wrote...
It would be something if the writers completely ignored this personal issue of infertility (treating it lightly as a DLC Easter Egg that fans can take or leave)

Would there be pitchforks out on here then?

Yes. Because if it is not explicity said that it is reversible, any scenarios with Miranda having children are uncanonical.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Since Miri hates her father, wouldn't having children be a big **** you to him. He wanted a dynasty, but, with Shepard (us), Miri will make a family that will be different then want her father wanted.

He wanted a dynasty. Which meant that he wanted an Empire of possible villainy, right?

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
It's obvious that had Mr. Lawson been a different sort of man, Miranda would be a different person. However, I still mantain that self steem issues are inseparable from the type of genetic enhancements that Miranda received. Anytime she won a prize, the tought would always be there on the back of her mind [i]"I don't deserve this. My father paid for it."

All that means is that she cannot meaningfully compete with normal humans on an equal basis. But that's why she seeks extraordinary challenges - and succeeds at them. Her achievements may not be measurable by a normal human standard, but they are still meaningful. And I think she will - should - come to accept herself because of it, as she already hints at after her LM "I'm my own person". For the same reason it needs someone like Shepard to draw her out.

As for what exactly her father wanted, we have only speculation. A dynasty as such is not an evil goal. Not even one made distinctive through engineered traits. The question is what was its purpose.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:44 .

[CaptREDKangaroo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
It's obvious that had Mr. Lawson been a different sort of man, Miranda would be a different person. However, I still mantain that self steem issues are inseparable from the type of genetic enhancements that Miranda received. Anytime she won a prize, the tought would always be there on the back of her mind [i]"I don't deserve this. My father paid for it."

All that means is that she cannot meaningfully compete with normal humans on an equal basis. But that's why she seeks extraordinary challenges - and succeeds at them. Her achievements may not be measurable by a normal human standard, but they are still meaningful. And I think she will - should - come to accept herself because of it, as she already hints at after her LM "I'm my own person". For the same reason it needs someone like Shepard to draw her out.

As for what exactly her father wanted, we have only speculation. A dynasty as such is not an evil goal. Not even one made distinctive through engineered traits. The question is what was its purpose.

I really hope her father and father's motives is in ME3. It's setup and that her father is important and could have a great effect on the war with the reaper's. It'd be an interesting and potentially cool stuff with Miranda and all of that. Long as that wouldn't be the sole Miranda mission or something =/

[MisterJB]

The problem is that anything Miranda accomplishes, no matter how amazing it is, will always only have deen possible due to her genetic enhacements.
I think that she takes solace in knowying that what she does is meaningfull and different from what her father wished her to do; hence the "Im my own person" comment; but that's it. I don't think we should associate "I'm my own person" to "The only thing I can take credit for are my mistakes." since they refer to different parts of her personality.

[jtav]

Would someone be willing to do a sanity check on a story idea? Via PM, in case it's a bad idea. There is no shipping of any kind, as Miranda is ten. It's either that or something else I'm planning that can only be called Indiana Jones by way of ME.

[ladyvader]

The Uncanny wrote...

jtav wrote...

What I really want is adoption because we don't see enough happily adopted kids in fiction.

The idea that people are capable of being perfectly happy without children is pretty rare too.

I am quite happy, I don't have any kids.  I do mean in my real life.  I am not the only one I know that is my age (mid 40's)without kids.  They are happy to without them.

[Dariansarr]

I sense a loyalty mission: Help Miranda find a cure for her sterility.

Modifié par Dariansarr, 29 juillet 2011 - 08:44 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
The problem is that anything Miranda accomplishes, no matter how amazing it is, will always only have deen possible due to her genetic enhacements.

If that's true, then something similar holds true for every human: that you can only do what you do because you're genetically wired for it. I say that's not the whole story. It takes dedication to excel at anything, that's as true for Miranda as it is for any other human. By any objective standard, her achievements count as hers. Only her standards are higher and she cannot easily compare them with other humans'.

Apart from that: what if she had gotten her enhancements by random chance, as an ace in the race of evolution? Nothing would be different, her genes would still play the same role in limiting what she can achieve. Where's an advantage you got by random chance different from one you got by intention? In nothing but the purpose behind it. The fact that there is a purpose behind her enhancemants, set by her father, that's what makes things different. 
Not that she thinks that way at present. But it is how she'll come to think about it once she has exorcized her father's ghost.

Or in other words: it is not desirable as such to be limited in what you can achieve by random chance. It is, however, very much desirable not to be born to serve a purpose not your own.

@Dariansarr:
I think that would give the problem too much weight. But I can see the acquisition of a solution coming up as a minor element in her story arc.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 juillet 2011 - 08:50 .

[Jebel Krong]

Mr Plow wrote...

It would be something if the writers completely ignored this personal issue of infertility (treating it lightly as a DLC Easter Egg that fans can take or leave)

Would there be pitchforks out on here then?

they should - it should be buried and forgotten like the bad joke all those dossiers were. <_<