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[hot_heart]

I don't take Ashley's line so much as a mark against her origin, but that Miranda is the 'perfect' woman. Kind of like how people don't always view celebrities as 'real' people.

I mean, her next line is "Flaws and all." It just sounds like blunt jealousy rather than anti-genetic tailoring.

Modifié par hot_heart, 08 août 2012 - 08:30 .

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I can understand being angry about him leaving her, but denying a person's right to life based upon the origin of their birth is a little...much don't you think?

That’s quite obviously not what Ash is saying.

…

Also, it’s hilarious how all problems with Miranda’s doings and sayings are the fault of the writers, but the problems with other characters seem to be theirs alone…

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...
Also, it’s hilarious how all problems with Miranda’s doings and sayings are the fault of the writers, but the problems with other characters seem to be theirs alone…

I don't think there's a problem at all with what Ashley says, but I do think it's a problem that the opposite point of view isn't represented in the game. That has nothing to do with Ashley.

[wright1978]

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I can understand being angry about him leaving her, but denying a person's right to life based upon the origin of their birth is a little...much don't you think?

That’s quite obviously not what Ash is saying.

…

Also, it’s hilarious how all problems with Miranda’s doings and sayings are the fault of the writers, but the problems with other characters seem to be theirs alone…

I have no problem with Ash being written as bitter in that scenario and lashing out at Miranda's origins. My issue is that if you are going to write such dialogue it should either be in a situation where Miranda can defend herself or i as the player get the choice to defend her or not. 

Modifié par wright1978, 08 août 2012 - 08:39 .

[Dr. Doctor]

hot_heart wrote...

I don't take Ashley's line so much as a mark against her origin, but that Miranda is the 'perfect' woman. Kind of like how people don't always view celebrities as 'real' people.

I mean, her next line is "Flaws and all." It just sounds like blunt jealousy rather than anti-genetic tailoring.

The thing that I find funny is her "I wear armor into battle, not swimwear" line. I'm just sitting there thinking "Have you looked at your uniform lately?"

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I have several theories on what happened but they all boil down to underestimating the audience. Which is the worst thing you can do as an artist.

Or it was just the story someone wanted to tell and the audience be damned. Or someone has a very reactionary view of certain things.

[Caihn]

lillitheris wrote...

Also, it’s hilarious how all problems with Miranda’s doings and sayings are the fault of the writers, but the problems with other characters seem to be theirs alone…

Personnaly I have absolutely no problem with Miranda's writers (I like the few things we've got in ME3), just with the people who decided to reduce her content and the size of her role in ME3.

Modifié par Yannkee, 08 août 2012 - 09:23 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Hearing Miri say, "I've cleared the Engine Room. Be in there in 5 minutes...." is ALWAYS INCREDIBLY Soothing to My Ears:wub:!


:wub:

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 08 août 2012 - 09:25 .

[Caihn]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's a frame by frame...

Those are used in comparitive shot analysis...

*cough* 

You can use it to pick up certain aspects of the scene. 

It's something I made 2 years ago ..
I wanted to show different face expressions of Miranda.

Here is an another one :

Modifié par Yannkee, 08 août 2012 - 09:39 .

[Babi_Siha]

hot_heart wrote...

I don't take Ashley's line so much as a mark against her origin, but that Miranda is the 'perfect' woman. Kind of like how people don't always view celebrities as 'real' people.

I mean, her next line is "Flaws and all." It just sounds like blunt jealousy rather than anti-genetic tailoring.

I agree with you, I don't think it was meant as an attack to how Miranda was born, besides, though it seems to be the galaxy's worst kep secret, we don't even know if Ash was aware of Miranda's origin.

The thing is, Ashley is a hypocrite, in ME1 she could make that statement and not be considered a **** because she was such a tomboy, always ready to put on her armor. In ME3 se physically turned into Miranda, all of a sudden she has big breasts, a big butt, her hair is down and she actually got pretty, so what right did she have to say something like that when she so hard was trying to be perfect?

I thought it was very in character what she said, Ashley doesn't seem to have much respect for people that threaten her in somehow. Maybe I didn't paraphrase that former sentence properly, but an example of that is that even on ME3 Ash is constantly nabbing on Liara.

[LanceSolous13]

jtav wrote...

Let me put it this way: if Miranda actually appears in a speaking role in future DLC, I will write a oneshot where she and Shep get married and have a baby.

Ohhh....I'll be curious how you'll do it.

[jtav]

Did I also need to add a line about flying pigs and ice rinks in Hell? That's approximately how likely I consider any DLC with Miranda.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Did I also need to add a line about flying pigs and ice rinks in Hell? That's approximately how likely I consider any DLC with Miranda.

I'm just surprised it took you a page to add some comment of that nature

[LanceSolous13]

jtav wrote...

I have several theories on what happened but they all boil down to underestimating the audience. Which is the worst thing you can do as an artist.

Exactly. Overestimating an audience is the better of the two because in overestimating them, You reward those who are honestly paying attention.

Underestimating is insulting to all.

[LanceSolous13]

Taboo-XX wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Ashley even states this if she was romanced in ME1 and left for Miranda; "I'm a real person. Not sure if that's your thing anymore."

wat

That's so horrible. I heard she has a comment on how she dresses as well, something about wearing swimwear into battle.

She's jealous, obviously, but that's just plain mean.

Which is funny considering what Ashley wears....

[jtav]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

Did I also need to add a line about flying pigs and ice rinks in Hell? That's approximately how likely I consider any DLC with Miranda.

I'm just surprised it took you a page to add some comment of that nature

Sorry. That's just the second comment I've gotten along the lines, so I was wondering if I made myself clear.

[hot_heart]

Babi_Siha wrote...
The thing is, Ashley is a hypocrite, in ME1 she could make that statement and not be considered a **** because she was such a tomboy, always ready to put on her armor. In ME3 se physically turned into Miranda, all of a sudden she has big breasts, a big butt, her hair is down and she actually got pretty, so what right did she have to say something like that when she so hard was trying to be perfect?

Personally, I feel that can be interpreted in a couple of ways. For one, the designers wanted to up her sex appeal in the most obvious manner, even if it runs a little contrary to the character.

The second is to just look at it in a 'positive/forgiving' way from an in-universe perspective and assume she felt the need to pretty herself up as she rose through Alliance ranks and garnered more attention. Or, if you did cheat on her, perhaps she wanted to go the extra mile to regain your gaze. This can be a little tougher because it feels like an excuse that paints a flawed intent as something grander, but that's what discussing it is all about.

It can be open to interpretation and I'm sure fans of all the characters look at the people behind these decisions rather than what is 'on-screen'.

I mean, Miranda fans look at the writing and the animation/camerawork in ME2 as two separate elements (as they may be) and focus on the shift in writers impacting the characterisation (as it obviously did for a few ME2 squadmates).

I hope some of that made sense. Kinda rambled there.

[LanceSolous13]

wright1978 wrote...

I have no problem with Ash being written as bitter in that scenario and lashing out at Miranda's origins. My issue is that if you are going to write such dialogue it should either be in a situation where Miranda can defend herself or i as the player get the choice to defend her or not. 

Doesn't Ash change her views or whatever if you bring her to Sanctuary?

[Babi_Siha]

I was reading Games Radar on why ME2 in one of the greatest games ever made and I have to past this here:

"Few
sequels have trumped the original as handily as Mass Effect 2. The first game, albeit beloved for its own reasons and remembered fondly despite itself, was full of issues that BioWare not only addressed, but completely solved when developing the sequel. Weird technical problems held it back from true greatness, and the combat simply wasn’t that engaging. And the Mako. And the space racism. And Ashley. And the elevators and the Mako again."

Miranda is also mentioned:

"In our initial trek through the game nearly our entire squad died during the mission, and each death hit us like a
punch to the gut. We knew, without fail, that anytime we were asked to send someone to do something, there was a good chance that they’d never come back. We were holding back the tears as Jack, Miranda, Garrus, and
other squad mates we'd fallen in love with were mowed down by reaper attacks. It was our fault, we were to blame, and no game had ever, ever made us feel that way before. "

Source: www.gamesradar.com/why-mass-effect-2-one-greatest-games-ever-made/

I wish the devs at BioWare had the same feelings about the ME2 squadmates.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 08 août 2012 - 10:24 .

[Dr. Doctor]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

I have no problem with Ash being written as bitter in that scenario and lashing out at Miranda's origins. My issue is that if you are going to write such dialogue it should either be in a situation where Miranda can defend herself or i as the player get the choice to defend her or not. 

Doesn't Ash change her views or whatever if you bring her to Sanctuary?

There's "That's someone's father?" but there isn't any actual interaction between Miranda or the other squadmates. If it wasn't for a few lines here and there that acknowlege Miranda's existance you could RP that Shepard's gone insane and Miranda is just a figment of his imagination.

[Taboo]

^ That's fairly spot on. Mass Effect 2 is so well made that to this day I still panic when going through the suicide mission. I still worry that Garrus is going to take that bullet whenever, I still worry about Mordin leading the team back.

Those characters were so much a part of the game that you become quite attached to them. Even the characters I don't get much or use get last (lol Tali) are important.

But most of all it felt like I did something at the end, it wasn't seeped in a void. That final scene with the Reapers approaching the Milky Way is more than enough info to gather what's next.

At some point between that, they decided that none of that mattered and they tried to make it into something it wasn't. Have I ever told you guys that I was told BY a producer that they wanted an ending similar to The Matrix and Inception? That this entire ending debacle was a ****ty emulation of Christopher Nolan?

[hot_heart]

Figured I'd share an interesting and well thought out character analysis from the fanfic writer group/thread. It's about Tali, but check the bolded.

Lilivati wrote...
Tali is everyone's little sister.  She's younger than the rest (she's only 25 in ME3), she's a bit bumbling in everyday life, and though she's honest to a fault it always comes out in the most awkward way possible.  Her mother died when she was a child and she was left in the care of an aloof father who couldn't tell the difference between loving his daughter and loving his people- he was a big picture guy with a child who needed tangible affection. So she's been responsible for herself (to greater or lesser degrees) since her mother's death, and it's left her a legacy of just figuring it out as she goes and hoping for the best.  At times this gives her a surprising depth of maturity (like when she swallows her pride and compromises on the data with Legion in ME2), while at others she looks like a kid playing dress-up in her father's clothes (like when she has no idea how to make the other admirals listen to her).  She's that inscrutable combination of wise beyond her years and hopelessly naive that comes from having to raise yourself.  She's terrified that her inexperience is transparent to everyone around her.  There's a reason she obsesses on  Miranda- Miranda was in more-or-less the same situation as Tali, with a cruddy father and a lonely childhood filled with expectations beyond her ability to meet, but Miranda actually has her **** together.  Tali's never in her life had her **** together.  Tali's at a point in her life where she's trying to break free from what everyone else wants her to do, and figure out what she herself wants. She's also new to the world of romantic relationships and often conflates sexuality with maturity in an attempt to seem attractive to the objects of her affection, much like a teenaged girl.  Her comments about wanting to feel Shepard's skin against hers or using Garrus for his body feel out of place, if sweetly so.

Modifié par hot_heart, 08 août 2012 - 11:01 .

[Taboo]

That's certainly an interesting concept. But I think Tali has her **** together. The thing is is that Tali is the years younger than Miranda, that alone makes a difference.

Tali excels at what she does AND has friends, while being young.

Sexuality does not alone, an adult make. I've always seen her attachment to Shepard as a High School crush, that is to say she's in love with the idea of the man, rather than the man. I got this vibe from her dialogue as well. She's infatuated with him. And if he chooses someone else she goes for the next thing down the ladder, Garrus.

[MisterJB]

kaymarierose wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I just thought it was weird that the Monitor knew. I mean, it's already unrealistic to think that Miranda would want a relationship with Shepard after what? Five conversations? Head canon would dictate they would have done something more, at least in the capacity that people would take notice.

But the damn commercial?

....It was Kasumi. It's always Kasumi. 

Or it just calculated the chances of the two being in a relationship based on body language evidenced during their time on the Citadel.
We already have something similar nowadays.

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

kaymarierose wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I just thought it was weird that the Monitor knew. I mean, it's already unrealistic to think that Miranda would want a relationship with Shepard after what? Five conversations? Head canon would dictate they would have done something more, at least in the capacity that people would take notice.

But the damn commercial?

....It was Kasumi. It's always Kasumi. 

Or it just calculated the chances of the two being in a relationship based on body language evidenced during their time on the Citadel.
We already have something similar nowadays.

Do you really think that their body language would be expressive enough to pick up on that?

They aren't holding hands through the Citadel. If anything you'd have to have it pick up on the way they're standing next to one another, or  the way she looks at him.

But is that enough?