82204 réponses à ce sujet

[LanceSolous13]

Babi_Siha wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I would LOVE to see Miri RP, if you know what I mean<3!

You don't exactly make the most complex comments, everyone knows what you mean.

Annnnnnnnnnnd it doesn't really help things... : /

TOP

Putting in link for...reasons.


http://25.media.tumb...slpfoo1_500.jpg

Credit to ganassa

Modifié par LanceSolous13, 09 août 2012 - 07:13 .

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

jtav wrote...
Well, this actual conservative thinks Henry did a very bad thing when he created her, but it isn't her fault, and she he has equal dignity to any other person. I'd like to think most would be like that, but there will be people saying she isn't human.

She would have been formed in a similar manner. She was grown. The only difference was where.

Does a tube make any difference from a uterus?

Does selective genes make you inhuman? From what I've been lead to understand even Ashley has some of that, to fix near sightedness in her families genes.

I think the difference is between adapting what's already there as opposed to creating a human from scratch. Even so, I still have to meet a convincing argument for "creating life is bad". IMO creating life is awesome. Henry's motivations may have been self-centered, but I can see nothing wrong in the action as such. In fact, had he not been such a control freak with Miranda, I would admire him. All pre-Sanctuary of course.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 août 2012 - 07:40 .

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
I wonder how the more conservative elements of the ME universe would regard her. I see some people (Ashley Williams for example) who would think she was a freak and unnatural due to the method of her conception. Ashley even states this if she was romanced in ME1 and left for Miranda; "I'm a real person. Not sure if that's your thing anymore."

I would imagine she keeps the fact of her genetic engineering a secret. 

Genetic engineering is pretty common among humans in ME. All Alliance soldiers are given modifications to improve strength, stamina, eyesight, etc. Gene therapy has been used to remove genetic disease from the human gene pool and at Huerta Memorial Hospital in ME3 a soldier talks about getting a cloned replacement for a lost limb.

ME1's codex entry for genetic technology goes a lot more in-depth:

In the 22nd century, manipulation of the human genome became commonplace. Techniques for genetic engineering advanced to the point where the rich could custom-build fetuses that grew into stronger, smarter, and more attractive adults. In more permissive regions, custom-designed life forms and "uplifted" animals occupied an ill-defined niche between "property" and "sapient being". 

ENGINEERING: Artificial hybridization of genes from compatible non-human species with human genetic code is illegal. Creation of designed life is broadly legal (and mainly used for terraforming and medical applications), but sentient creatures are heavily regulated, and creation of sapient life is outlawed by both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council.

People with tailoring similar to Miranda's exist in 2185 but she's unique in the fact that her father modified a copy of his own X chromosome to create his daughters. Miranda says that Henry "Grew her [Oriana] when I was a teenager." suggesting that the Lawson Process is something that the Alliance and Council would frown upon.

Does anyone else have the impression that the ME trilogy got quite a bit more traditionalist towards the end? They didn't dare retcon all this stuff, but most controversial things are completely ignored in ME3. The Paragon path in ME3 got outright annoying in its tooting of a traditionalist value system, while the Renegade still failed to present a consistent picture of its own, balancing between pragmatism and anger as motivations with sprinkles of badassery in-between. Third options are almost non-existent. 

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Did I also need to add a line about flying pigs and ice rinks in Hell? That's approximately how likely I consider any DLC with Miranda.

Here. Proof.



Now where's that Miranda DLC?

*cough*

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 août 2012 - 08:13 .

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Did I also need to add a line about flying pigs and ice rinks in Hell? That's approximately how likely I consider any DLC with Miranda.

Here. Proof.

Now where's that Miranda DLC?

*cough*

Also, in the Divine Comedy, the Ninth Circle of Hell is described as an icy lake where the great traitors of history are trapped.
So, technically, you could call it an ice rink. In Hell.

[Ieldra]

kratos0294 wrote...
"The asari are accusing us of arrogance.....this might be a first"

Where does she say that?

Edit:
Never mind. Someone else already answered. I did that once but without Miranda on the squad.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 août 2012 - 08:56 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
What is stupid is that the bloody machine knows her name is Miranda Lawson. So, clearly, she has to be registered somewhere. The Cerberus officer has her real name registered with Citadel authorities.

Alias, please?

This appears to be the day of things I missed. Which "bloody machine" mentions Miranda by name?

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Where does she say that?

If you let the Council die, talk to the two asari on the Citadel who can't leave the station. Pick the Renegade option, then return and apologize.

Ieldra2 wrote...
This appears to be the day of things I missed. Which "bloody machine" mentions Miranda by name?

The personalized advertisement that is on the same level as the Dark Star. Third or fourth convo.
It only happens if Miranda is the romance.

[Babi_Siha]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Where does she say that?

On that mission Citadel: Found Forged ID with the two asaris that can't travel. Miranda obviously has to be on the party and people posted here some other things like the Council had to die in the first game. I can't remember the rest.

This appears to be the day of things I missed. Which "bloody machine" mentions Miranda by name?

That advertising machine near the salarian who sells videogame, it mentions something about the next time you bring Miss Lawson on a date or something, acknowledging your relationship with her or any other squad with LI status. Oh, here:

Taboo-XX wrote...

If you romance any of the ME2 squad, go to the Citadel and activate the ad monitor to the left of the Salrian selling games. After two commercials it should make a reference to your LI of choice.

"The next time you're out with Miss Lawson..."

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 09 août 2012 - 09:08 .

[Ieldra]

I see. Never thought to use that ad machine more than once.

[LanceSolous13]

The only ad Machine I usually listen to more than once is Kasumi's. Its freaking hilarious what she'll say.

"Got problems with 'collectors'? Try Kasumi's Credit Services!"

*slightly seductive voice* "Commander Shepard, We have the finest companions waiting for you. Perhapse something petite, smart, and Japaniese would be your style?"

"Just enter your password for a FABULOUS Prize Package worth millions of credits!"

"...You do have the password right?"

I also find the fact that she's the greatest thief in the galaxy and has no crimnal record, yet communicates with her contact using a giant billboard advertisement of her face. XD

Modifié par LanceSolous13, 09 août 2012 - 09:57 .

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

jtav wrote...
Well, this actual conservative thinks Henry did a very bad thing when he created her, but it isn't her fault, and she he has equal dignity to any other person. I'd like to think most would be like that, but there will be people saying she isn't human.

She would have been formed in a similar manner. She was grown. The only difference was where.

Does a tube make any difference from a uterus?

Does selective genes make you inhuman? From what I've been lead to understand even Ashley has some of that, to fix near sightedness in her families genes.

I think the difference is between adapting what's already there as opposed to creating a human from scratch. 

Indeed. The idea of a "made to order" child horrifies me. The complete separation of sex and procreation is against my religious beliefs.

So it's not the conservatism per se that bothers me, rather the anti-intellectualism and really warped messages about women. It's possible to acknowledge her gifts as fantastic and deplore how she got them.

[Taboo]

So things like In Vitro are out for you? Sometimes that's the only way a woman can conceive.

A made to order child is well beyond conservatism, you're approaching worse things. It more closely resembles Brave New World, where people are literally grown to do there jobs. Sex is forbidden. This is a bit more specific of course.

At no time do I believe it to anti-intellectual though. If that was the case she would be incompetent or incapable of doing something simply because she is a woman. That was never the case. If anything, she's one of strongest female characters I've ever seen in a video game, and she's certainly my favorite.

Ask yourself, would this stigma be attached if it was a man? Miranda gets a bad rap BECAUSE she's female. THAT is anti-intellectual.

[lillitheris]

^ That sounds like an artificial distinction, pun intended. I don’t know what the value system is, but it seems compartmentalized. A child is a child is a child. It’s not taking anything away from anyone else if a child is ‘artificially’ created…Lawson’s emotional abuse and scheming are a matter separate from that.

(Also, not to get into religion and all, but is there actually one that says that babies must only be born from having sex? ‘Cause I haven’t heard of one specifying that. There’s that one story about the opposite, but…)

[Taboo]

^ Yes. I went to a Catholic School. Good old fashioned vaginal intercourse was the only type of sex that was allowed. No condoms either.

Henry is the cause of a lot of Miranda's emotional issues. She was always intelligent, but her personality was shaped by his abuse.

[Ieldra]

@Taboo:
Miranda *was* made to order. She was only lucky that Henry didn't install any limiting traits.

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Yes. I went to a Catholic School. Good old fashioned vaginal intercourse was the only type of sex that was allowed. No condoms either.

Yeah, but where does it say that? About procreation, specifically. “Thou shalt not have babies except by sex even if thou inventest a way to do so”?

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Taboo:
Miranda *was* made to order. She was only lucky that Henry didn't install any limiting traits.

I know that. I was referencing the political aspects. It makes no difference to me how a child is born though.

I sometimes wonder if he did install one insidious limiting trait.

She has a massive uterine fibroid.

[Taboo]

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Yes. I went to a Catholic School. Good old fashioned vaginal intercourse was the only type of sex that was allowed. No condoms either.

Yeah, but where does it say that? About procreation, specifically. “Thou shalt not have babies except by sex even if thou inventest a way to do so”?

Father Dick (that was his name, I apologize for this in advance) was very adament that even stem cell research was a bad thing. I still remember the look on when I said that they were a good idea.

This goes back to puritan values.

I was a naughty boy for having certain thoughts as a teenager, or so I was told.

And this was only a little over ten years ago. I remember being lectured IN class about this.

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...
 A child is a child is a child. It’s not taking anything away from anyone else if a child is ‘artificially’ created…Lawson’s emotional abuse and scheming are a matter separate from that.

I agree, and I think that really should be a non-controversial idea.

Whether or not one would want Henry's methods to become more widespread is another issue, with its own ethical quandries.

But Miranda already exists. And her gifts are good things. Though her father's motives were misguided.

[wright1978]

I have no issues with how Miranda was created. If she was implanted in a human surrogate or some artifical womb doesn't make that form of procreation less valid than natural birth. Just as the current more limited means of artificial aid to procreation doesn't make those children less valid. The only issue i have is with what seemed like psychologically abusive parenting not the idea of how she was conceived or the gene adaptions that give her the advantages she possesses.

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Yes. I went to a Catholic School. Good old fashioned vaginal intercourse was the only type of sex that was allowed. No condoms either.

Henry is the cause of a lot of Miranda's emotional issues. She was always intelligent, but her personality was shaped by his abuse.

And you aren't supposed to like it either.

She always had that air of sophistication and brilliance, and I'm sure her demeanor was always pretty cool (as in cold)

[Taboo]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Yes. I went to a Catholic School. Good old fashioned vaginal intercourse was the only type of sex that was allowed. No condoms either.

Henry is the cause of a lot of Miranda's emotional issues. She was always intelligent, but her personality was shaped by his abuse.

And you aren't supposed to like it either.

She always had that air of sophistication and brilliance, and I'm sure her demeanor was always pretty cool (as in cold)

You aren't supposed to enjoy sex at all, it is used ONLY for procreation.

A lot of Miranda's issues can be traced back to emotional abuse. People withdraw when they are abused for the most part, especially if they are trapped.

Cerberus didn't really help her underlying issues at hand, Shepard did.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Does anyone else have the impression that the ME trilogy got quite a bit more traditionalist towards the end? They didn't dare retcon all this stuff, but most controversial things are completely ignored in ME3.

Apparently so. Not sure where it's coming from exactly. But neither ME1 nor ME2 have the moralistic vibe that you find all over the place in ME3.

Unfortunately Miranda has several traits that a certain conservative/reactionary/traditionalist (whatever you want to call it) point of view has a hard time not stigmatizing. (Basically: Cerberus, the genetic engineering, and the fact that she was supposed to be a "temptress" sort of figure.)

Modifié par flemm, 09 août 2012 - 02:10 .

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Does anyone else have the impression that the ME trilogy got quite a bit more traditionalist towards the end? They didn't dare retcon all this stuff, but most controversial things are completely ignored in ME3.

Apparently so. Not sure where it's coming from exactly. But neither ME1 nor ME2 have the moralistic vibe that you find all over the place in ME3.

Unfortunately Miranda has several traits that a certain conservative/reactionary/traditionalist (whatever you want to call it) point of view has a hard time not stigmatizing. (Basically: Cerberus, the genetic engineering, and the fact that she was supposed to be a "temptress" sort of figure.)

I'm on the left side of the political line and I find Cerberus to be an issue at times. Not the one Miranda wants, that's my preferred version, but the one that is willing to go to the same lengths as say, the IRA to make a point.

The real issue that people have, especially in the story forum, is sexuality. People can't get over it over there. Sex is still very off putting for most people. That's an inherent part of the character, it isn't Miranda's fault.