82204 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

…Yeah, I don’t see how Cerberus would be specifically be an issue for the conservatives.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I'm on the left side of the political line and I find Cerberus to be an issue at times.

I think that is absolutely appropriate.

My point is more that the game should not really have a built-in morality that stigmatizes everything it doesn't like.

For example, Miranda should not be considered tainted because she was once a loyal Cerberus operative. On the contrary, while Cerberus is the enemy, there should be a rogue or renegade Cerberus presence in the game.

It's fine if some characters (like Ashley) are put off by Miranda's origins, but the game should allow the player to express the opposite view.

It should be fine if I'd just rather spend my time with the temptress figure than the traditional spouse because I like her more 

That sort of thing 

I think the game would be a lot more fun if it were more balanced in these ways, and other ways.  

Modifié par flemm, 09 août 2012 - 02:27 .

[Taboo]

If anything I would have thought that some of Cerberus' jingoism would have been attractive to conservatives. I don't like that Cerberus. At all.

The one that is willing to work outside the law, against the governing body to get things done to help the greater good is the best one. That would be the Lazarus Cell that Miranda heads.

They get a LOT done because they were not limited by things as petty as intergalactic weapons laws. If you notice, certain weapons you acquire are illegal in Council Space.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

If anything I would have thought that some of Cerberus' jingoism would have been attractive to conservatives. I don't like that Cerberus. At all.

Well, some of the vocabulary here is a little messy. "Conservative" more in the ideological sense (not really political). For example: suspicion of science or any notion of transhumanism.

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...

And if one day Miranda is identified as a terrorist, the Council can just freeze all of her accounts which would be much harder to track if she used an alias.

Really? Much harder to track? So in a world where a freaking advertisment can identify you just by proximity to it, and infer a relationship you may or may not have with the person next to you based on what, rapid eye movement?, calling yourself Bob Jones as opposed to John Smith is really going to make all the difference if the system decides to look for you?

Right...<_<

The Citadel uses biometrics for identification. In the face of such systems a name change is laughably quaint, akin to Clark Kenting it by wearing glasses <-- totally in disguise now.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If anything I would have thought that some of Cerberus' jingoism would have been attractive to conservatives. I don't like that Cerberus. At all.

Well, some of the vocabulary here is a little messy. "Conservative" more in the ideological sense (not really political). For example: suspicion of science or any notion of transhumanism.

I'm simply not fond of the Cerberus that is willing to cause harm in the name of foreign policies that's all.

From a conservative standpoint, things like Science and transhumanism would be an issue, but only to the truly, truly conservative.

One might easily make an argument from the other side as well. I know plenty of liberals who won't vaccinate their children because they believe it is harmful, and it has nothing to do with religious beliefs. That doesn't make sense to me, at all, as anyone reading papers would know that that reseach linking vaccines to autism was proven to be false.

I think what a lot of it boils down to is how said person was raised and how they feel about certain things. Sex does not bother me in the slightest, niether does science. What I care about more than anything is whether or not the person is choosing these things willingly. You have every right to be a ******, but you do not have the right to cause harm by BEING a ******.

[jtav]

Miranda is a lousy temptress figure. What kind of Delilah tries to persuade the hero to her side by using actual argument? I'm supposed to lose my mind because she's hot? Please. It's a video game. Beautiful, available women grow on trees.

What I'd have done in terms of a "redemption" arc is have Miranda go from Cerberus to an actual human STG where she can be challenged in ways that are more constructive. I don't see why that's problematic.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Miranda is a lousy temptress figure. What kind of Delilah tries to persuade the hero to her side by using actual argument?

Well, she's an unusual one, to say the least

I guess the answer to that would be: "One written by Patrick Weekes."

Modifié par flemm, 09 août 2012 - 02:42 .

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

Miranda is a lousy temptress figure. What kind of Delilah tries to persuade the hero to her side by using actual argument? I'm supposed to lose my mind because she's hot? Please. It's a video game. Beautiful, available women grow on trees.

The thing about that is that it DOES work. It's been used since the dawn of time.

Sexuality IS a part of the character, and it oozes out sometimes. It's quite evident from her romance scene that just about everything was taken up a notch.

She's even on top.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sexuality IS a part of the character, and it oozes out sometimes.

I agree. And that should be fine (not something that the game wants to see as wrong or bad because it distracts from the "true love" or some such nonsense).

Modifié par flemm, 09 août 2012 - 02:45 .

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sexuality IS a part of the character, and it oozes out sometimes.

I agree. And that should be fine (not something that the game wants to see as wrong or bad because it distracts from the "true love" or some such nonsense).

Strong women are already difficult for some people to tolerate, but a woman who is in charge of her sexuality is even more off putting.

One of the biggest complaints I heard about Miranda over in the story forums was how she was taking Shepard as a "prize".

Needless to say, I had a few words to say about that.

[BP93]

@Taboo - You know what they say, you're not a Catholic until your a lapsed Catholic.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

LanceSolous13 wrote...


Putting in link for...reasons.


http://25.media.tumb...slpfoo1_500.jpg

Credit to ganassa

O....M....G! O____O:blink:

I can see Miri doing this for "Certain" Nights<3:wub:.

Her figure is QUITE Accurate in that Drawing.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 août 2012 - 04:18 .

[flemm]

LanceSolous13 wrote...


Putting in link for...reasons.


http://25.media.tumb...slpfoo1_500.jpg

Credit to ganassa

Very cool

[Dr. Doctor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Does anyone else have the impression that the ME trilogy got quite a bit more traditionalist towards the end? They didn't dare retcon all this stuff, but most controversial things are completely ignored in ME3. The Paragon path in ME3 got outright annoying in its tooting of a traditionalist value system, while the Renegade still failed to present a consistent picture of its own, balancing between pragmatism and anger as motivations with sprinkles of badassery in-between. Third options are almost non-existent. 

My biggest thing with ME3 is that after a playthrough there's no reason to talk to the squad anymore. The VS will have the same opinion on something as Vega, Garrus, EDI, and Liara. Javik's the only one who really has a mind of his own and he's a ten dollar add-on. 

[Td1984]

I went to Catholic school through about the first half of 4th grade. Then I moved and it was nothing but public school afterwards (my parents couldn't afford private school anymore after that). I definitely went to church more times during that three-and-a-half year period than I have in the nearly 18 years since. Talk about "lapsed Catholic".

It was probably for the best though. I was never as religious as I ought to have been for being in Catholic school (which might be why I have no problems with Miranda's creation despite technically being Catholic), plus starting with 2nd grade, they wanted us to only write in cursive, which I can't do to save my life.

[Taboo]

All the Catholic School did to me was give me a resentment of certain authority figures. You also felt bad about yourself for simply being alive. YOU ARE A SINNER. YOU WILL REPENT.

People resent being controlled, that's what I learned, especially in this day and age.

I was in that school for what, ten years? It certainly shaped my life, and not always in a positive way.

Ten plus years of real emotional abuse would certainly be very damaging to Miranda. I can't imagine how horrible it was.

[hot_heart]

I'm going to assume this poll hasn't been seen by the thread yet and that it's not just us.

Now we get to completely skew it.

[flemm]

hot_heart wrote...
Now we get to completely skew it.

Excellent, everything is preceding according to plan

Mouhahahahaha.

[Taboo]

You make it sound like assailing that poll is a bad thing.

Even people who don't romance Miranda want her back. A think that's a testament to just how much she's missing.

[Aliqaiser]

flemm wrote...

hot_heart wrote...
Now we get to completely skew it.

Excellent, everything is preceding according to plan

Mouhahahahaha.

Holy WOW, so true Flemm.

And Damn this thread has gone WILD.

Modifié par Aliqaiser, 09 août 2012 - 06:37 .

[cbutz]

Taboo-XX wrote...



I'm simply not fond of the Cerberus that is willing to cause harm in the name of foreign policies that's all.

From a conservative standpoint, things like Science and transhumanism would be an issue, but only to the truly, truly conservative.

One might easily make an argument from the other side as well. I know plenty of liberals who won't vaccinate their children because they believe it is harmful, and it has nothing to do with religious beliefs. That doesn't make sense to me, at all, as anyone reading papers would know that that reseach linking vaccines to autism was proven to be false.

I think what a lot of it boils down to is how said person was raised and how they feel about certain things. Sex does not bother me in the slightest, niether does science. What I care about more than anything is whether or not the person is choosing these things willingly. You have every right to be a ******, but you do not have the right to cause harm by BEING a ******.

I agre with this. As an Conservative, by American general scale, I have no problem with the advancement of science and humans. This includes genetically altering humans so that they are less prone to disase and have a better chance of living a longer and healthier life.

I can see how those on the left and right would like/hate Cerberus. For myself, I like the  idea of an organization that can be above the corruption and beuracracy of government. A organization funded by private individuals, although that can lead to other forms of corruption. There are other reasons but it will end in a jumbled, rambled mess that will frustrate everyone here.

    As for Jingoism, it is something that everyone from the left and right fall into. Back in presidential campaign of  08 ,  the congressional races of 10, and this presidential campaign of 12,  people from both sides of the spectrum get whipped up and believe the "jingos" of their respective sides.


Edit: Sorry if this was a little late to the discussion, I see it has moved on to the poll. I hope bioware sees thes polls, the stickied thread that was unstickied, and the other forums and discussions and sees that the fans want Miranda as DLC, because msot of the fans realize the exclusion of Miranda from the Cerberus arc makes no sense.

Modifié par cbutz, 09 août 2012 - 07:01 .

[Taboo]

The issue is that at some point, something needs to be done in certain cases. The Collector's needed to be stopped, without question. An organization that can work for the best interests of humanity in that regard, outside of galactic law, is my preferred Cerberus.

At some point it isn't about left or right ideology to me, it's that something HAS to be done.

[fiendishchicken]

So Yvonne is doing a theatre production of 'golden boy'

http://artsbeat.blog...danny-burstein/

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The issue is that at some point, something needs to be done in certain cases. The Collector's needed to be stopped, without question. An organization that can work for the best interests of humanity in that regard, outside of galactic law, is my preferred Cerberus.

I prefer unicorns.



(It’s painfully obvious that the writing of ME2 specifically blocked out all reasonable response by the SA in order to prop up Cerberus’ role. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but a little source criticism would be expected before you try to actually start ‘analyzing’ it.)

Modifié par lillitheris, 09 août 2012 - 07:54 .