82210 réponses à ce sujet

[krukow]

flemm wrote...
The issue isn't that Miranda wants to have a baby. The issue is that Jay W. wants and expects you and I to read that dossier and to deduce something like the following: "Miranda has casual sex, wants a baby and cannot have one. And therefore is a bad person."

I... Wha?  Look, I'm not the mirifan you kids are, but I always saw that as "Miranda wants to have a baby, but can't have one, and you should feel bad for her".  Which I do, because that's a perfectly normal instinct/desire, and it's one she can't have.  Infertility is a pretty tragic thing for those suffering from it.

Where are you getting "bad person" from?  Paranoid much...?

Top Miri:
http://t0.gstatic.co...8FRBMSJQ2F1lVW-

Modifié par krukow, 15 août 2012 - 04:57 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Which makes me want to inform Miranda of the lovely little thing called sperm banks.

I find it much better for my mental health if I just change the dossier to "Miranda has casual sex. Miranda wants children, but can't have them."

The character derailment started there.

Indeed. From that point on, I dreaded what they'd do with Miranda, and I was 100% correct. I recall you dreaded the same...

I have some special hatred reserved for the SB dossier for that reason. I recall when LotSB came out, I don't think I've written "I hate this" about anything else nearly that often. Not even about the original ending of ME3.

[JeanLuc761]

Mr Massakka wrote...

krukow wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

I do like that.

Also, I like that, at one point, Jacob is all, "Let's go get the Collectors NAAAOO!" and Miranda actually recommends building the team some more. I mean, it's a good call but I always felt the roles would've been switched there.

No likey.  Miranda just wants Kelly to die

It's after the Reaper IFF is mentioned I believe. Not after the team got captured.

I think it depends on how prepared you are.  In my case, all my missions are complete by the time the Collectors take everyone, so both Miranda and Jacob confirm that we're as ready as we're going to be.  If you're missing a couple loyalty missions, I think Miranda suggests that they shouldn't rush without being certain.

[Ieldra]

krukow wrote...

flemm wrote...
The issue isn't that Miranda wants to have a baby. The issue is that Jay W. wants and expects you and I to read that dossier and to deduce something like the following: "Miranda has casual sex, wants a baby and cannot have one. And therefore is a bad person."

I... Wha?  Look, I'm not the mirifan you kids are, but I always saw that as "Miranda wants to have a baby, but can't have one, and you should feel bad for her".  Which I do, because that's a perfectly normal instinct/desire, and it's one she can't have.  Infertility is a pretty tragic thing for those suffering from it.

Where are you getting "bad person" from?  Paranoid much...?

What flemm meant is that it's meant to be a comment on her genetic engineering. Being infertile casts a bad light on that, it's meant to say "genetic engineering is bad" in a roundabout way. Miranda might not be bad, but she's an abomination, that's what the dossier comes down to.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...
Where are you getting "bad person" from?  Paranoid much...?

Not at all. That is why there is no much emphasis on the death scene. That is mainly what Jay was focusing on.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
Never saw her dossier that way and I see how it all ties together now, but what's the sense of forcefully getting pregnant from a stranger?

Exactly. I reject that interpretation because it makes no f*cking sense. I refuse to let any artificial stupidity touch Miranda.

Agree think concept of her jumping in bed with random blokes to get pregant is stupid

Thats why i'm now so attracted to her using dating service as her own donor screening process before she lures victim in.

[JeanLuc761]

krukow wrote...

flemm wrote...
The issue isn't that Miranda wants to have a baby. The issue is that Jay W. wants and expects you and I to read that dossier and to deduce something like the following: "Miranda has casual sex, wants a baby and cannot have one. And therefore is a bad person."

I... Wha?  Look, I'm not the mirifan you kids are, but I always saw that as "Miranda wants to have a baby, but can't have one, and you should feel bad for her".  Which I do, because that's a perfectly normal instinct/desire, and it's one she can't have.  Infertility is a pretty tragic thing for those suffering from it.

Where are you getting "bad person" from?  Paranoid much...?

Agreed.  I simply saw it as depressing, and I thought it actually added to her character quite well (and partially explained some of her coldness).  I didn't think Miranda was a bad person at any point.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What flemm meant is that it's meant to be a comment on her genetic engineering. Being infertile casts a bad light on that, it's meant to say "genetic engineering is bad" in a roundabout way. Miranda might not be bad, but she's an abomination, that's what the dossier comes down to.

Yes, this as well. It is intended to stigmatize her genetic engineering.

It replaced Mr. Weekes' nuanced perspective. Lines like: "He gave you gifts, but you can be proud of what you've done with them."

[krukow]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What flemm meant is that it's meant to be a comment on her genetic engineering. Being infertile casts a bad light on that, it's meant to say "genetic engineering is bad" in a roundabout way. Miranda might not be bad, but she's an abomination, that's what the dossier comes down to.

I guess.  I just never made that connectioin.  I always saw it as adding more depth/tragedy to a character.  Here you have this perfect person who can literally do anything she sets her mind to, but is incapable of doing the most basic, yet debatably important, thing a woman can do.

I mean, I see what you guys are saying, but I'm just going to ignore that possible intent and stay with my interpretation.  Poor Miranda

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

flemm wrote...
The issue isn't that Miranda wants to have a baby. The issue is that Jay W. wants and expects you and I to read that dossier and to deduce something like the following: "Miranda has casual sex, wants a baby and cannot have one. And therefore is a bad person."

I... Wha?  Look, I'm not the mirifan you kids are, but I always saw that as "Miranda wants to have a baby, but can't have one, and you should feel bad for her".  Which I do, because that's a perfectly normal instinct/desire, and it's one she can't have.  Infertility is a pretty tragic thing for those suffering from it.

Where are you getting "bad person" from?  Paranoid much...?

She has a base want and has sex like everyone else. Not once did I see it as portraying her in a bad light. One character trait simply manifested.

Some people didn't like that part of the character and were upset when it did manifest.

She's human, just like everyone else.

Although interviews that people could have watched beforehand would have told them what they needed to know.

[Stalker]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Which makes me want to inform Miranda of the lovely little thing called sperm banks.

I find it much better for my mental health if I just change the dossier to "Miranda has casual sex. Miranda wants children, but can't have them."

The character derailment started there.

Indeed. From that point on, I dreaded what they'd do with Miranda, and I was 100% correct. I recall you dreaded the same...

I have some special hatred reserved for the SB dossier for that reason. I recall when LotSB came out, I don't think I've written "I hate this" about anything else nearly that often. Not even about the original ending of ME3.

There is one thing I liked about the dossier and that is that she is infertile. The infertile career-driven woman. I liked that, because it added some kind of depth through a striking issue that many of todays' people can refer to.

But this idea of casual sex because she desperately wants to get pregnant from a stranger still won't fit in my book. However, I also hate scraping canon, so I will just keep it as "part of the character I understand and appreciate, but don't really like".

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 15 août 2012 - 05:05 .

[JeanLuc761]

Ieldra2 wrote...
What flemm meant is that it's meant to be a comment on her genetic engineering. Being infertile casts a bad light on that, it's meant to say "genetic engineering is bad" in a roundabout way. Miranda might not be bad, but she's an abomination, that's what the dossier comes down to.

Eh, I never really got that vibe.  Agree to disagree I guess.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

She has a base want and has sex like everyone else. 

Of course she does. But that is not what Jay had in mind.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What flemm meant is that it's meant to be a comment on her genetic engineering. Being infertile casts a bad light on that, it's meant to say "genetic engineering is bad" in a roundabout way. Miranda might not be bad, but she's an abomination, that's what the dossier comes down to.

Yes, this as well. It is intended to stigmatize her genetic engineering.

It replaced Mr. Weekes' nuanced perspective. Lines like: "He gave you gifts, but you can be proud of what you've done with them."

You have no reason to believe that. At all.

It simply says that the tumor is a result of it, it never says it's a bad thing.

Weekes was involved with LotSB. He most likely wrote that part.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

She has a base want and has sex like everyone else. 

Of course she does. But that is not what Jay had in mind.

Burden of proof is on you. You have no reason to believe that was his intention.

At all.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...
What flemm meant is that it's meant to be a comment on her genetic engineering. Being infertile casts a bad light on that, it's meant to say "genetic engineering is bad" in a roundabout way. Miranda might not be bad, but she's an abomination, that's what the dossier comes down to.

Yeah it certainly has that feel to me too, coupled with the attempted force feeding of  infertile abomination leads to tragic death vibes in ME3.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Weekes was involved with LotSB. He most likely wrote that part.

He wrote the DLC, yes, but not the dossiers.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Weekes was involved with LotSB. He most likely wrote that part.

He wrote the DLC, yes, but not the dossiers.

You have no reason to believe that that was his intent.

You have chosen to look at it as malicious.

[Sajuro]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
Never saw her dossier that way and I see how it all ties together now, but what's the sense of forcefully getting pregnant from a stranger?

Exactly. I reject that interpretation because it makes no f*cking sense. I refuse to let any artificial stupidity touch Miranda.

"Let me help you miranda"
"No shepard, I have to confront my father and the Cerberus army that's with him alone"

[Babi_Siha]

Taboo-XX wrote...

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Weekes was involved with LotSB. He most likely wrote that part.

He wrote the DLC, yes, but not the dossiers.

You have no reason to believe that that was his intent.

You have chosen to look at it as malicious.

Well, let's face it that as of late anything related to Miranda it's easy to assume is malicious. I don't doubt that they wanted to paint her on a bad light since LotSB.

[krukow]

Sajuro wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
Never saw her dossier that way and I see how it all ties together now, but what's the sense of forcefully getting pregnant from a stranger?

Exactly. I reject that interpretation because it makes no f*cking sense. I refuse to let any artificial stupidity touch Miranda.

"Let me help you miranda"
"No shepard, I have to confront my father and the Cerberus army that's with him alone"

In Miranda's defense, she watched Shepard assemble this huge, diverse team with lots and lots of talent, and then go on every mission (where he fights his way through a small army) with just two team mates.

Shepard: "I'm going to go fight through an army of mercenaries and clone krogan to find a warlord.  Miranda, Jack, you're with me."
Zaeed: "I could help."
Shepard: "No, you stay on the ship, I want a challenge!"

maybe she just wanted a challenge too...?

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You have chosen to look at it as malicious.

It depends what you mean. More misguided than malicious, actually. Jay's view basically amounts to "while Miranda is not all bad, in the sense that she is capable of good, healthy feelings, the fact that she is genetically engineered is inherently bad, because it is unnatural, and the sign of this is that she is unable to have children."

This nonsense was of course not part of the character as originally introduced.

It's also separate from the idea that Miranda has natural desires for sex, children, etc. Of course she should and does.

[jtav]

Not a bad light. They think it's a good light. Her learning what's really important. We disagree. Strongly.

[JeanLuc761]

Babi_Siha wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Weekes was involved with LotSB. He most likely wrote that part.

He wrote the DLC, yes, but not the dossiers.

You have no reason to believe that that was his intent.

You have chosen to look at it as malicious.

Well, let's face it that as of late anything related to Miranda it's easy to assume is malicious. I don't doubt that they wanted to paint her on a bad light since LotSB.

But why?  What possible reason would they have to casting Miranda in a negative light?  There's nothing malicious about the implication that genetic engineering is not a perfect process, nor is it a negative character quality for Miranda to apparently be attempting to overcome that disability.  As for Mass Effect 3...I agree she should have had more of a role, but at no point in the ENTIRE GAME did I see Miranda being painted in a bad light.  

I'm not seeing where this is coming from.

[Taboo]

Babi_Siha wrote...

Well, let's face it that as of late anything related to Miranda it's easy to assume is malicious. I don't doubt that they wanted to paint her on a bad light since LotSB.

You have ZERO proof that this was intended as malicious.

It's known that Jay took advice from Weekes. 

Something happened that people didn't like and they interpreted it as malicious.

People need to accept it and move on.