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[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

And? It also has some embodiment of fascist ideals. That fits too. Does that mean it applies? I don't think so.

People do this **** now with dogs. They breed to get desired traits. That's all she is, an amalgamation of desired traits.

Henry didn't make her for transhumanist goals. He made her to be a part of his dynasty. A human dog almost. He certainly treated her like one.

I fail to see why something that has nothing to do with the character explictely is a reason for liking them.

At this point I'm starting to lose track of what you mean. Henry's motivations are not especially relevant to the use of the term. She is genetically enhanced. Therefore she is transhuman, as well as human. It is simply one common meaning of the word.

It doesn't imply an association with ideals or goals necessarily.

Your analogy with breeding is a poor one, since the process is not the same.

Modifié par flemm, 16 août 2012 - 02:09 .

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

And? It also has some embodiment of fascist ideals. That fits too. Does that mean it applies? I don't think so.

People do this **** now with dogs. They breed to get desired traits. That's all she is, an amalgamation of desired traits.

Henry didn't make her for transhumanist goals. He made her to be a part of his dynasty. A human dog almost. He certainly treated her like one.

I fail to see why something that has nothing to do with the character explictely is a reason for liking them.

At this point I'm starting to lose track of what you mean. Henry's motivations are not especially relevant to the use of the term. She is genetically enhanced. Therefore she is transhuman, as well as human. It is simply one common meaning of the word.

Your analogy with breeding is a poor one, since the process is not the same.

She is an amalgamation of traits that already exist.

It's no different than picking the traits you want and putting them in a mixer to make one thing.

There is nothing in her that hasn't already been accomplished.

Nothing is artificial. THAT is what you need to be transhuman.

[LanceSolous13]

Damn....I forgot about that. XD Oops.


Then, my other thought was....

All Squaddies have a scene on the Citadel.

Kaidan takes you to dinner.
Liara has lunch with her father and later speaks with Shepard in the Commons.
Garrus flies Shepard to the top of the Precidium for a shooting contest.
And Vega appears in the bar with the more lively crowd.

So, if Miranda were a full Squaddie, Where would she and Shepard go and what would they do?

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Nothing is artificial. THAT is what you need to be transhuman.

Well, that is simply not true. Her genome is artificially constructed and enhanced. That adds a transhuman element to her character. It's not complicated. I'm sorry you don't like the word, but it applies.

Modifié par flemm, 16 août 2012 - 02:12 .

[krukow]

Do you think they still have different human languages, or have they all melded into one at this point (ala firefly)? I know they don't words from other languages, but I always assumed that was for presentation (just like all the russians in hunt for red october speaking english most of the time).

[kaymarierose]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Damn....I forgot about that. XD Oops.


Then, my other thought was....

All Squaddies have a scene on the Citadel.

Kaidan takes you to dinner.
Liara has lunch with her father and later speaks with Shepard in the Commons.
Garrus flies Shepard to the top of the Precidium for a shooting contest.
And Vega appears in the bar with the more lively crowd.

So, if Miranda were a full Squaddie, Where would she and Shepard go and what would they do?

Dinner or something with her and Oriana. Despite you knowing each other, you never actually officially meet her.

Modifié par kaymarierose, 16 août 2012 - 02:17 .

[JeanLuc761]

kaymarierose wrote...

Dinner or something with her and Oriana. Despite you knowing each other, you never actually officially meet her.

Which results in Miranda telling embarassing stories about Shepard.

I don't know why, but I that's what I think would happen 

[Jonata]

Taboo-XX wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I think Miranda would be fluent in French, English, Spanish, and German for the sake of her employment.

Dawg they have universal translaters now.

There is no reason to speak any other language.

That's quite an interesting topic actually. When the universal translators where implemented? And in which language? Does every human speak english now, or are there Italian/German/French translators out there? 

More importantly: if the Quarian have a russian accent in english, how does a Russian Universal Translator would make them sound?

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Nothing is artificial. THAT is what you need to be transhuman.

Well, that is simply not true. Her genome is artificially constructed and enhanced. That adds a transhuman element to her character. It's not complicated. I'm sorry you don't like the word, but it applies.

No it doesn't.

If you put in enough desireable traits you can make a better human...genetically.

Nothing she has has not existed before.

You speak of transhuman being the mid point between human and post human. She posses nothing to suggest she is anything past human.

She is not the next step in evolution, she is merely an amalgamation of it's best traits.

A pedigree human. That's it.

[kaymarierose]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

kaymarierose wrote...

Dinner or something with her and Oriana. Despite you knowing each other, you never actually officially meet her.

Which results in Miranda telling embarassing stories about Shepard.

I don't know why, but I that's what I think would happen 

Or Oriana sharing embarassing conversations she had with Miranda. That would not go well for Shepard. 

[Taboo]

kaymarierose wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

kaymarierose wrote...

Dinner or something with her and Oriana. Despite you knowing each other, you never actually officially meet her.

Which results in Miranda telling embarassing stories about Shepard.

I don't know why, but I that's what I think would happen 

Or Oriana sharing embarassing conversations she had with Miranda. That would not go well for Shepard. 

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

A pedigree human. That's it.

That term doesn't really apply, because "pedigree" implies breeding or inherited traits. Not designed or engineered traits. So, that term is really not appropriate.

"Transhuman" is appropriate: her genome is artificially designed and enhanced. That is a non-controversial statement, really. It is simply part of the character.

[LanceSolous13]

Where the heck would they have dinner? I already feel like Apollo's is over used from Kaidan, Liara, and Ashley while Purgatory is used for Aria, James, Joker (twice), Steve, and Jack.

Besides, I'd rather a dinner with Miri and Ori be in Shepard's Cabin or something. I sort of have a mental image of them sitting on the floor eating take out Chineese food.

Hmmmmmm....I could see Shepard and Miri running through the inner workings of the Citadel Titanic style.

Miranda: Shepard. There are protocalls.
Shepard: So?
Miranda: Those rules are there for a reason.
Shepard: You're point?
Miranda: We can't just go running through the inner workings of the Citadel! It's dangerious!
Shepard: Isn't that the point?

*Shepard grabbs Miranda's hand and the two run across giant catwalks above loud machines

[kaymarierose]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Where the heck would they have dinner? I already feel like Apollo's is over used from Kaidan, Liara, and Ashley while Purgatory is used for Aria, James, Joker (twice), Steve, and Jack.

Besides, I'd rather a dinner with Miri and Ori be in Shepard's Cabin or something. I sort of have a mental image of them sitting on the floor eating take out Chineese food.

Hmmmmmm....I could see Shepard and Miri running through the inner workings of the Citadel Titanic style.

Miranda: Shepard. There are protocalls.
Shepard: So?
Miranda: Those rules are there for a reason.
Shepard: You're point?
Miranda: We can't just go running through the inner workings of the Citadel! It's dangerious!
Shepard: Isn't that the point?

*Shepard grabbs Miranda's hand and the two run across giant catwalks above loud machines

I like that idea. 

[jtav]

I know who else Jay wrote, thanks to Doc. Any interest?

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

A pedigree human. That's it.

That term doesn't really apply, because "pedigree" implies breeding or inherited traits. Not designed or engineered traits. So, that term is really not appropriate.

"Transhuman" is appropriate: her genome is artificially designed and enhanced. That is a non-controversial statement, really. It is simply part of the character.

She isn't transhuman. That's what I'm arguing. She is nothing more than an amalgamation of traits.

She is human and is not in the next stage of evolution.

Please stop cherry picking my posts.

[jtav]

Taboo, what flemm is saying is that you're using the word incorrectly. And you are.

[kaymarierose]

I think you guys should just agree to disagree. The conversation is at a standstill.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

She isn't transhuman. That's what I'm arguing. She is nothing more than an amalgamation of traits.

She is human and is not in the next stage of evolution.

Please stop cherry picking my posts.

I'm not cherry-picking anything. I understand what you are arguing. The points you are making do not really address the issue. Everyone is an amalgamation of traits. Everyone.

Transhuman does not necessarily imply that the next stage of evolution has been attained. It doesn't mean that automatically.

It can mean a variety of things. One thing that it can refer to is enhanced and/or artificially designed humans. Of which Miranda is uncontestably an example. In itself, that is not good or bad.

But it is part of the character.

Modifié par flemm, 16 août 2012 - 02:43 .

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

Taboo, what flemm is saying is that you're using the word incorrectly. And you are.

It's very difficult to tell what he's talking about at all as he selectivly cuts things out and comments on one part. He cherry picks all the time.

I have no idea what he's even arguing at this point and I don't think he knows what I am either. I get the impression that he belives she is in the mid point of evolution between human and post human.

She isn't.

[LanceSolous13]

Transhumans, and defined by EDI in Mass Effect 3, relate towards Synthetic alterations to brain functions and ete. Shepard's Implants and Miranda's birth wouldn't define them as transhumans.

President Huerta of the U.S.A. is a transhuman.

[krukow]

I think I get what flemm is saying, and I still disagree. I think Miranda is the ultimate human (or close), I don't think she's an early step towards something beyond human.

Am I getting it right?

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

She isn't transhuman. That's what I'm arguing. She is nothing more than an amalgamation of traits.

She is human and is not in the next stage of evolution.

Please stop cherry picking my posts.

I'm not cherry-picking anything. I understand what you are arguing. The points you are making do not really address the issue. Everyone is an amalgamation of traits. Everyone.

Transhuman does not necessarily imply that the next stage of evolution has been attained. It doesn't mean that automatically.

It can mean a variety of things. One thing that it can refer to is enhanced and/or artificially designed humans. Of which Miranda is uncontestably an example. In itself, that is not good or bad.

But it is part of the character.

You need to state that explicitly. This is a result of cherry picking.

You stated that it WAS the mid point.

Human -> Trans -> Post.

That's essentially what you said.

[jtav]

Lance, no transhumanist I know uses the ME definition of the word. Here's Wikipedia on Transhumanism: "an international intellectual and cultural movement that affirms the possibility and desirability of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to eliminate aging and to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as study the ethical matters involved in developing and using such technologies.

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

Lance, no transhumanist I know uses the ME definition of the word. Here's Wikipedia on Transhumanism: "an international intellectual and cultural movement that affirms the possibility and desirability of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to eliminate aging and to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as study the ethical matters involved in developing and using such technologies.

Then they are not applicable.

Nothing that Miranda consists of has done anything to improve the human condition.