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"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


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#66951
flemm

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jtav wrote...
Anyway, I've been doing some thinking. Does anyone else see a strain of "reverse snobbery" running through parts of the game. It didn't work, but the ME2 narrative talks up Jacob as a potentially great commander and hero in his own right. And he finds his fulfillment in being a father and protecting his loved ones. Which is fine, but pretty humble. Miranda really is physically and mentally superior, but she too longs for and achieves "normal."



Well, the mentality underlying that part of the game is that "normal" is like an absolute good, really. It's what everybody wants. Including Shepard, of course.

That's why it's problematic, because "normal" doesn't exist, really. At best, it's a social construct, or a point of view established by consensus. Unfortunately, one of the things that happens when you try to establish such a thing as an absolute is that you start bumbling into all kinds of stereotypes and problematic ideas (mostly without really meaning to, I guess, in this case).

The reason for that is that many stereotypes exist and are perpetuated to stigmatize what is not perceived as normal by the majority.

Which isn't to swing the other way and claim that wanting to focus soley on family, for example, is a bad choice. But that is a choice, and not one everybody makes or should make. So the problem is the moralistic and one-sided presentation (with religious undertones).

Modifié par flemm, 17 août 2012 - 02:05 .


#66952
Dr. Doctor

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Taboo-XX wrote...

I prefer to think that their first meeting will be rather nice. She obviously knows about Shepard and her sister and she approves. But I don't know what she'd say. Bioware has given me nothing to go off of.

Perhaps that's a good thing.

OT: What armor do the people who play as Sentinel's use in here? The Blood Dragon Armor is popular in the online videos...

Do you guys mix and match or...do you do something else?


For a more power-usage based Sentinel I use the Inferno Armor.

For a sheild-heavy weapons focused Sentinel I use the following combination:

-Capacitor Helmet
-Serrice Council Chestplate
-Kassa Fabrication Shoulders
-Kassa Fabrication Arms
-Rosenkov Materials Legs

+10% shield regeneration speed
+20% shields
+10% power recharge
+10% power damage

#66953
Beep Il

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jtav wrote...

You'll fit right in, Beep. Welcome.
 


Thanks, but I don't think I'll post here a lot since I mostly hang out in the Kaidan thread. :P

Anyway, during my first playthrough, I had a renegade Shep. I mostly picked renegade options during dialogue wheels. Easy to guess, I didn't let Miranda to have access to the files and she died. I was kinda shocked since I didn't know she could die in ME3. :pinched:

#66954
hot_heart

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Beep Il wrote...
I didn't let Miranda to have access to the files and she died.

That's it, you've overstayed your welcome. Goodbye now. :P

#66955
Beep Il

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hot_heart wrote...
That's it, you've overstayed your welcome. Goodbye now. :P


Eheh! How could I have known? :P

*Offers Miranda pic as a peace offering*
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#66956
fiendishchicken

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hot_heart wrote...

Beep Il wrote...
I didn't let Miranda to have access to the files and she died.

That's it, you've overstayed your welcome. Goodbye now. :P


Read your fic yesterday. Ashley is totally the person to take with Garrus, especially if formerly romanced. There was no real romance conflict there. 

Me and Taboo have been talking about this a lot.

PM me and I'll give you some idea's if you want.

#66957
jtav

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Well, one of the nice things about the slides, especially Control, is that Miranda's desire for family exists in harmony with her professional goals. She has Ori at her side and is studying something profoundly interesting.

#66958
flemm

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jtav wrote...

Well, one of the nice things about the slides, especially Control, is that Miranda's desire for family exists in harmony with her professional goals. She has Ori at her side and is studying something profoundly interesting.


At the end of the day, it's not that complicated, really. Miranda just needs some interesting things to do in addition to the personal/family stuff. Which she naturally would have, of course.

#66959
hot_heart

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fiendishchicken wrote...
Read your fic yesterday. Ashley is totally the person to take with Garrus, especially if formerly romanced. There was no real romance conflict there.

Oh, thank you, but I'm OK on the ideas front. Also, I am working within the constraints of the game so I won't be adding in any extra dialogue. It would merely be an observation or snide remark in her head; something like that.

Though I have noticed most people who romanced Miranda had switched from Ashley though, which I guess makes sense. Not sure if I wanted to narrowly define those elements so much though. I shall see what others say.

#66960
Dr. Doctor

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jtav wrote...

Does anyone think Miranda would have been better suited to Brynn's role, omitting the romance with Jacob? Far from ideal, but a step in the right direction.


Having it officially kick off her story arc would work pretty well.  Having her use her position as TIM's second in command (or working covertly after resigning in ME2)  to help scientists escape from Cerberus would work pretty well. Considering the the rogue cell on Gellix is continuing it's experiments it's pretty much the last bastion of the organization she believed in.

If that were to happen I'd have Oriana and her family be on the base as well considering that it makes no sense for her to stay where Cerberus put her in ME2 with Miranda on the run from TIM. Having the escape shuttle carrying Oriana be captured by Cerberus forces (preferably lead by Kai Leng) would be much better than what we currently have. 

Ideally by the end of the mission Cerberus has sent the people Miranda swore to protect running and took her sister she then takes a handful of her former colleagues and starts hunting down TIM.

#66961
Taboo

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I didn't switch. I have a no romance Shepard in ME1 when I'm playing.

I got the paramour achievement with Ashley once though. That Shepard never went anywhere though.

He'll have to die and be resurrected before he meets anyone.

#66962
fiendishchicken

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Dr. Doctor wrote...

jtav wrote...

Does anyone think Miranda would have been better suited to Brynn's role, omitting the romance with Jacob? Far from ideal, but a step in the right direction.


Having it officially kick off her story arc would work pretty well.  Having her use her position as TIM's second in command (or working covertly after resigning in ME2)  to help scientists escape from Cerberus would work pretty well. Considering the the rogue cell on Gellix is continuing it's experiments it's pretty much the last bastion of the organization she believed in.

If that were to happen I'd have Oriana and her family be on the base as well considering that it makes no sense for her to stay where Cerberus put her in ME2 with Miranda on the run from TIM. Having the escape shuttle carrying Oriana be captured by Cerberus forces (preferably lead by Kai Leng) would be much better than what we currently have. 

Ideally by the end of the mission Cerberus has sent the people Miranda swore to protect running and took her sister she then takes a handful of her former colleagues and starts hunting down TIM.


I agree but I would argue that it goes against what Miranda wanted for Oriana, and what she wants for Oriana may cloud her judgement. She SHOULD have Oriana and her family on the base with her, but she wouldn't because it would interfere with Oriana's life, nevermind the fact the Reapers are on the march.

#66963
Taboo

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I think a lot of things would have been better than what we have.

Any inclusion with her in a Cerberus arc would have been golden.

And we still could have had the scene like we did on the Citadel when they reunite.

#66964
wright1978

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jtav wrote...

Does anyone think Miranda would have been better suited to Brynn's role, omitting the romance with Jacob? Far from ideal, but a step in the right direction.


No i don't think Brynn's role would have suited Miranda at all well. Something much more active like an expanded andd properly developed version of Cerberus renegades would.

#66965
Ieldra

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Beep Il wrote...
Now that this thread is quiet, I can now express that I really liked Miranda. She's by far my favorite female character in ME universe. She along with Mordin were my favorite squadmembers in ME2.
Would have been awesome to combine her combat abilities with Kaidan's. I'm really hoping she'll become at least a temporary squadmember at some point in ME3.
The only thing I found boring about her, was her family, but that's just a minor thing.
Didn't romance her though. She has the "wrong equipment."

Yeah, this thread can be crazy at times. Welcome in the madhouse. :lol:

#66966
Taboo

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But what fun would this thread be if it wasn't a madhouse? Ieldra will never admit it but he enjoys it.

Any news from Gamescom? All I got from Twitter were concert pics from Miss Merizan...

#66967
Ieldra

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jtav wrote...
Well, one of the nice things about the slides, especially Control, is that Miranda's desire for family exists in harmony with her professional goals. She has Ori at her side and is studying something profoundly interesting.

Indeed. too bad we don't have something similar for Synthesis. I can see her studying her how exactly things have changed and how to utilize its fullest potential.

#66968
Taboo

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Indeed. too bad we don't have something similar for Synthesis. I can see her studying her how exactly things have changed and how to utilize its fullest potential.


She's studying at twice the normal pace. You just have to imagine it.

#66969
Ieldra

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Taboo-XX wrote...
But what fun would this thread be if it wasn't a madhouse? Ieldra will never admit it but he enjoys it.

:lol:
I wouldn't be here if I weren't a crazy fan myself.

Any news from Gamescom? All I got from Twitter were concert pics from Miss Merizan...

I've not been there today. It's just too hot to be fun. I'll attend the party tomorrow and that will be it. I hate summer. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 17 août 2012 - 04:16 .


#66970
Ieldra

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Indeed. too bad we don't have something similar for Synthesis. I can see her studying her how exactly things have changed and how to utilize its fullest potential.

She's studying at twice the normal pace. You just have to imagine it.

I do imagine it. But an epilogue slide would make it canon ;)

#66971
jtav

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The more I think about it, the more tempted I am by Control. Miranda has always been my Shepard's right hand, the person who restrains his worst impulses and tempers his enthusiasm. And the fact that "now my purpose" plays over her slide lets me believe they could continue that in a strange way.

Oh, dear.

#66972
Taboo

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Indeed. too bad we don't have something similar for Synthesis. I can see her studying her how exactly things have changed and how to utilize its fullest potential.

She's studying at twice the normal pace. You just have to imagine it.

I do imagine it. But an epilogue slide would make it canon ;)


She's out doing all sorts of things depending on which ending you choose.

She''ll be doing the exact same thing in Destroy as she will in Synthesis, except that Shepard will be there and she won't work at an improved rate.

As for Control, I don't think anyone is ever going to really know what happened. Shepard has no reason to reveal himself. And seeing as he no longer has any attachment to organics, he has no reason to contact Miranda.

All the slides are canon for whichever ending you choose for your Shepard.

#66973
flemm

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fiendishchicken wrote...
 She SHOULD have Oriana and her family on the base with her, but she wouldn't because it would interfere with Oriana's life, nevermind the fact the Reapers are on the march.



Well, I think part of what the overall story should be about is Miranda bringing her family and her more ambitious side together. Previously, she felt the need to keep them separate.

That is why I will never say that the family aspect of Miranda's story is a bad thing.

The need for that connection is part of why I have an affinity for Mr. Weekes' writing and why I would like to see him back in supervision of the character.

It is not to eliminate the personal.

Mordin basically explains this in one of the dialogues in ME2 (also one of Mr. Weekes' characters, and my other favorite): the galaxy is too big, the issues are too large to comprehend without any personal connection. He needs to think of his nephew. That allows him to focus, to understand, to care. But the idea is never to lose that connection with the galaxy. The idea is to *have* that connection between the galaxy and the nephew.

That is part of Mordin's character, but you can also see that as a philosophy of writing: keep it personal and relatable, but always with a connection to bigger issues, concepts and ideas. And I think it is a good one.

If you look at what Mr. Weekes did with Miranda in ME2, I think we can see this philosophy at work. She is naturally a *big picture* character, she is very focused on the "galaxy": the Reapers, the collectors, her work, goals, ideals. She needs the *nephew* to bring balance and a personal connection. And that is what the loyalty mission basically does. But the idea was never to lose the connection with the "galaxy." The whole point is to establish that connection.

So, that is what is needed, and what was lost, I believe, when responsability for the character changed hands. The *nephew* is important, but so is the *galaxy*: we need both. 

Modifié par flemm, 17 août 2012 - 04:44 .


#66974
JeffZero

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jtav wrote...

The more I think about it, the more tempted I am by Control. Miranda has always been my Shepard's right hand, the person who restrains his worst impulses and tempers his enthusiasm. And the fact that "now my purpose" plays over her slide lets me believe they could continue that in a strange way.

Oh, dear.


I buckled and decided I'd dedicate my signature to both endings. I don't even dislike Destroy though, I just don't like it nearly as much because the EDI/geth sacrifice is so absurdly shoehorned and the "Shepard gasps for air; fade to  black" sequence makes me facepalm hard.

#66975
Taboo

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flemm wrote...

The need for that connection is part of why I have an affinity for Mr. Weekes' writing and why I would like to see him back in supervision of the character.


This. Seriously. He knocked it out of the park.

I really hope that if they give her DLC that he writes it. It would be great to have that Miranda again.