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[lillitheris]

hot_heart wrote...

I couldn't see Miranda asking, "The f#%k did I do?" though.

I’m not sure I see the comparison, really. There are some commonalities, yes, but I think there are some fundamental differences. Interesting characters, both, of course.

…But Garrus is totally Bunk.

[hot_heart]

flemm wrote...
Well, she admits it right away when you talk to her in private. So, one might say that there is a facade of over-confidence, I guess, that covers up the insecurities. She doesn't really know Shepard well yet, at that point.

True, but she knows all his history and everything. The respect is already there. To an outsider, and all the players who don't bother talking to her, she appears obnoxious.

Even though she can make mistakes, I think she's still confident that her way of doing things is generally the best.

[krukow]

hot_heart wrote...

flemm wrote...
She is naturally a *big picture* character, she is very focused on the "galaxy": the Reapers, the collectors, her work, goals, ideals. She needs the *nephew* to bring balance and a personal connection. And that is what the loyalty mission basically does. But the idea was never to lose the connection with the "galaxy." The whole point is to establish that connection.

That's a good summation, and something I've been trying to touch on in my story (though not exactly the same).

I also had an enthusiastic rant about The Wire in another thread yesterday, and I think one of my favourite characters from that shares some similarities with Miranda.

All the outside stuff is different - he's male, alcoholic, a cop, separated with kids - but at the core, a lot of his troubles come from acting like he's the smartest person in the room, and being too focused on his work at the cost of everything else. And I was actually going to appropriate a line said about him "You're no good for people".

I couldn't see Miranda asking, "The f#%k did I do?" though.

The Wire is the greatest TV show ever, and possibly the apex of art in the visual medium.

David Simon >>> all those crappy foreign directors Taboo loves.

FACT

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

David Simon >>> all those crappy foreign directors Taboo loves.

FACT

Yo krukow Im'ma let you finish but Robert Bresson,Nagisa Oshima,Michael Haneke,Theodoros Angelopoulos and Akira Kurosawa have written some of the best scripts of all time.

OF ALL TIME.

I use them as references for my writing, especially Bresson.

DEEEEEAL WITH IT.

[hot_heart]

lillitheris wrote...
I’m not sure I see the comparison, really. There are some commonalities, yes, but I think there are some fundamental differences. Interesting characters, both, of course.

…But Garrus is totally Bunk.

Hehe. I can see Garrus like that.

Well, yeah, there are fundamental differences given how dramatically different the environments are, but I was speaking in terms of what it is about a character that fascinates me, more than anything else, I guess. I'd call it a way into understanding the character maybe.

[LanceSolous13]

Pair....As in shipping.......As in, out of all the people we know from the series, Who would she have the most emotional connection with on a romantic level.

[hot_heart]

krukow wrote...
The Wire is the greatest TV show ever, and possibly the apex of art in the visual medium.

Amen.

And it's funny because it is a TV show that is very much like a book (with a lot of authors writing episodes, too). Though, those writers understood the differences in the medium...

[Dragon_Claw]

Taboo-XX wrote...

krukow wrote...

David Simon >>> all those crappy foreign directors Taboo loves.

FACT

Yo krukow Im'ma let you finish but Robert Bresson,Nagisa Oshima,Michael Haneke,Theodoros Angelopoulos and Akira Kurosawa have written some of the best scripts of all time.

OF ALL TIME.

I use them as references for my writing, especially Bresson.

DEEEEEAL WITH IT.

You forgot Takeshi Kitano !!!

[flemm]

hot_heart wrote...
To an outsider, and all the players who don't bother talking to her, she appears obnoxious.

It really depends. Some people do react to "crit path" Miranda that way, but others see it more as a positive "take charge" sort of attitude. Especially Miranda's female fans, from what I've seen, unsurprisingly (of which there are a lot).

I think it's a little of both.

hot_heart wrote...

Even though she can make mistakes, I think she's still confident that her way of doing things is generally the best.

Yeah, that's true. But, then again, she wouldn't be that good at her job if she were constantly second-guessing herself or had a hard time making decisions. Neither would Shepard, who can also be pretty obnoxious

Modifié par flemm, 17 août 2012 - 07:42 .

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

krukow wrote...

David Simon >>> all those crappy foreign directors Taboo loves.

FACT

Yo krukow Im'ma let you finish but Robert Bresson,Nagisa Oshima,Michael Haneke,Theodoros Angelopoulos and Akira Kurosawa have written some of the best scripts of all time.

OF ALL TIME.

I use them as references for my writing, especially Bresson.

DEEEEEAL WITH IT.

Taboo.  Take all those guys you just mentioned.  Put every creative thing they've ever done into a pool.  Multiply it by 10.  Multiply it by 8.  Add 1.

Combined, that all still has less to say about the world, the real world, than 5 seasons of the Wire.

[fiendishchicken]

flemm wrote...

hot_heart wrote...
To an outsider, and all the players who don't bother talking to her, she appears obnoxious.

It really depends. Some people do react to "crit path" Miranda that way, but others see it more as a positive "take charge" sort of attitude. Especially Miranda's female fans, from what I've seen, unsurprisingly (of which there are a lot).

I think it's a little of both.

hot_heart wrote...

Even though she can make mistakes, I think she's still confident that her way of doing things is generally the best.

Yeah, that's true. But, then again, she wouldn't be that good at her job if she were constantly second-guessing herself or had a hard time making decisions. Neither would Shepard, who can also be pretty obnoxious

Me and Taboo are having a discussion about this, and why fans of other characters are turned off by Miranda. We've concluded that they are incredibly intimidated by her. A lot of guys don't really like the woman who is equal to Shepard and more than likely greater. She's incredibly confidant and driven, and also competitive. A lot of them prefer the submissiveness of say Liara or Tali. People had the same problem with Sarah Walker in Chuck. They feel threatened by it. They don't understand how it's a 2 way street.

[krukow]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Me and Taboo are having a discussion about this, and why fans of other characters are turned off by Miranda. We've concluded that they are incredibly intimidated by her. A lot of guys don't really like the woman who is equal to Shepard and more than likely greater. She's incredibly confidant and driven, and also competitive. A lot of them prefer the submissiveness of say Liara or Tali. People had the same problem with Sarah Walker in Chuck. They feel threatened by it. They don't understand how it's a 2 way street.

1.  I completely agree.  They much prefer Tali to follow them around and agree with everything they do.
2.  You can say the same about Ash.  Coincidentally, I only hang out in two character threads.  Hmmmm...

[Dragon_Claw]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Me and Taboo are having a discussion about this, and why fans of other characters are turned off by Miranda. We've concluded that they are incredibly intimidated by her. A lot of guys don't really like the woman who is equal to Shepard and more than likely greater. She's incredibly confidant and driven, and also competitive. A lot of them prefer the submissiveness of say Liara or Tali. People had the same problem with Sarah Walker in Chuck. They feel threatened by it. They don't understand how it's a 2 way street.

1.  I completely agree.  They much prefer Tali to follow them around and agree with everything they do.
2.  You can say the same about Ash.  Coincidentally, I only hang out in two character threads.  Hmmmm...

I might actually concede that Ashley trumps Miranda in that. I don't think any LI is more combatitive with Shepard than Ashley can be.

Jack...

[fiendishchicken]

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Me and Taboo are having a discussion about this, and why fans of other characters are turned off by Miranda. We've concluded that they are incredibly intimidated by her. A lot of guys don't really like the woman who is equal to Shepard and more than likely greater. She's incredibly confidant and driven, and also competitive. A lot of them prefer the submissiveness of say Liara or Tali. People had the same problem with Sarah Walker in Chuck. They feel threatened by it. They don't understand how it's a 2 way street.

1.  I completely agree.  They much prefer Tali to follow them around and agree with everything they do.
2.  You can say the same about Ash.  Coincidentally, I only hang out in two character threads.  Hmmmm...

I'll be honest (and throw you a bone). Ash is a strong woman, no doubt, but she still tries a little too hard. And her attitude is a complete turnoff in that hers comes from deep rooted beliefs, than actual observations. And she does fawn over Shepard too, she's just not prostrating nearly as much as Liara or Tali. And she just plain lacks the cool, icy sophistication and mystery that Miranda has. There isn't that level of competition and the chemistry between Shepard and Miranda is just. plain. hawt.

Miranda will also tear the galaxy apart to find Shepard if he's in danger. Ashley, quite frankly, won't. 

Talk to Taboo about it. We've been discussing this for like a week now.

[krukow]

fiendishchicken wrote...

I'll be honest (and throw you a bone). Ash is a strong woman, no doubt, but she still tries a little too hard. And her attitude is a complete turnoff in that hers comes from deep rooted beliefs, than actual observations. And she does fawn over Shepard too, she's just not prostrating nearly as much as Liara or Tali. And she just plain lacks the cool, icy sophistication and mystery that Miranda has. There isn't that level of competition and the chemistry between Shepard and Miranda is just. plain. hawt.

Miranda will also tear the galaxy apart to find Shepard if he's in danger. Ashley, quite frankly, won't. 

Talk to Taboo about it. We've been discussing this for like a week now.

ummmmmm...
1.  No she won't.  She won't even join Shepard when he's fighting a freaking war (and yes, he's in danger while fighting a war).  I get that you kids have some cool James Bond-style headcanon for Miri.  I like it and even agree with some of the ideas, but Shep's in danger for all of ME3 and Ashley's off listening to emo music and looking for her sister. 
2.  You do realize that one of Ashley's character traits is that she's, if anything, over protective of Shepard?  Like in combat and stuff?  Even unromanced, it's very important to her that Shep be okay.  SHE FREAKING KILLS WREX IF IT COMES TO THAT, A KROGAN WARLORD!

I'm not trying to disparage either character, they're both great.  You're just wrong with your conclusion about Ashley.

[lillitheris]

fiendishchicken wrote...


Me and Taboo are having a discussion about this, and why fans of other characters are turned off by Miranda. We've concluded that they are incredibly intimidated by her. A lot of guys don't really like the woman who is equal to Shepard and more than likely greater. She's incredibly confidant and driven, and also competitive. A lot of them prefer the submissiveness of say Liara or Tali. People had the same problem with Sarah Walker in Chuck. They feel threatened by it. They don't understand how it's a 2 way street.

…And that’s BS for probably half the people who don’t like Miranda.

Ironically enough, I think the (association with an organization that uses) categorization and stereotyping is causing more problems.

Bonus points if you can figure out what the irony is.

[jtav]

Reasons people tend not to like Miranda:
1. She's a true believer in Cerberus, they of Akuze and Teltin.
2. She wanted to implant a control chip in Shepard.
3. She's sexualized, and that sexuality is shoved in the player's face.
4. Her issues can read as essentially "complaining about superpowers"
5. She's abrasive.

And so on.

[LanceSolous13]

Jack is actually rather submissive despite her exterior. Just look at the sex scene. She comes to Shepard in tears. Shepard is the one in control of the scene.

Then look at Miranda. Shepard does initeate the sex like the other scenes (Thane, Jack) but Miranda initeates it. She even says she will. She has equal or more control over the act than Shepard.

Looking at Ashely, one should look at Mass Effect 1. She's blunt and honest with her views and doesn't hide them. She only cares about Shepard's opinions on her own out of the fact he's her CO. After having sex, She takes control of the scene and then refuses to say she loves him til he survives the mission. Heck, just like all the ME1 sex scenes, the partner initeates sex, not Shepard.

Its probably why I like Ashley and Miranda's characters.

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...
…And that’s BS for probably half the people who don’t like Miranda.

Probably, while also having some truth to it. Actually, I think people like and don't like Miranda for a variety of different reasons. In fact, I would go so far as to say I know this, because I have seen it.

And some of those reasons for not liking her are... wait for it... perfectly valid

It is a positive thing. Liking or not liking really gets too much focus. I like strawberry slurpees, doesn't mean they're worth a damn.