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[LanceSolous13]

Woah. When does Ashley kill Wrex?! O_o

[lillitheris]

^ It’s if you don’t have enough points for the persuasion and don’t have the armor.

(Incidentally, I headcanon-would-have court-martialed her in that run for ROE and disobedience if she hadn’t gotten killed anyway.)

Modifié par lillitheris, 17 août 2012 - 08:24 .

[jtav]

Not liking Miranda is fine. It's indifference that's death. Trying to get everyone to like your characters ends in the bloodlessness of ME3.

[Babi_Siha]

fiendishchicken wrote...

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Me and Taboo are having a discussion about this, and why fans of other characters are turned off by Miranda. We've concluded that they are incredibly intimidated by her. A lot of guys don't really like the woman who is equal to Shepard and more than likely greater. She's incredibly confidant and driven, and also competitive. A lot of them prefer the submissiveness of say Liara or Tali. People had the same problem with Sarah Walker in Chuck. They feel threatened by it. They don't understand how it's a 2 way street.

1.  I completely agree.  They much prefer Tali to follow them around and agree with everything they do.
2.  You can say the same about Ash.  Coincidentally, I only hang out in two character threads.  Hmmmm...

I'll be honest (and throw you a bone). Ash is a strong woman, no doubt, but she still tries a little too hard. And her attitude is a complete turnoff in that hers comes from deep rooted beliefs, than actual observations. And she does fawn over Shepard too, she's just not prostrating nearly as much as Liara or Tali. And she just plain lacks the cool, icy sophistication and mystery that Miranda has. There isn't that level of competition and the chemistry between Shepard and Miranda is just. plain. hawt.

Miranda will also tear the galaxy apart to find Shepard if he's in danger. Ashley, quite frankly, won't. 

Talk to Taboo about it. We've been discussing this for like a week now.

Yes, Ash is a strong woman, a great soldier, but her religion, blind loyalty to the Alliance and prejudice against other species is sort of a deal breaker, also the poems, can she stop reciting them? In all seriousness, in my first playthrough with ManShep I romanced her, because even though she's got a great deal of flaws you could count on her to have Shepard's back and share his views about the Council and I liked their flirty ways.

However, much in the same way they did with Miranda in ME3, in the second game the writers completely killed her character and in ME3 when she accepted being a Spectre they turned her into a hypocrite, the writers never fully redeemed her character for the awful acusations she made on Horizon. That's why I feel Miranda is the better match for Shepard; her priorities in the third game are all wrong, but she still cares about him, she never judged Shepard for going back to the Alliance after all the sh*t they put him through and she accepts that, Ash could never accept Shepard's choices, even if joining Cerberus wasn't exactly something he wanted, it was a necessity.

And I agree with the bold text, I honestly think that Miranda is most likely to search for Shepard than Ashley. The latter would let her loyalty to the Alliance speak louder and would resume her duties as a soldier as soon as they wanted her to. Miranda would maybe help the Alliance with a few things, but she would always be looking for him.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 17 août 2012 - 08:26 .

[krukow]

Or you can tell her to do it, and she kills him. I've only done it one (my renegade playthrough, where I'm romancing Miranda actually).

But yeah, she guns him down, steps over his still twitching body, and shoots him a couple more times.

Ash is a BAMF yo.

Then Kaidan cries about it

[LanceSolous13]

Is it always Ashley who kills Wrex or is it LI spesific or? O_o I've never heard of this before (Never killed Wrex period.)

[LanceSolous13]

Does anyone have a link to the scene?

[lillitheris]

It’s Ash. Kaidan knows better than to shoot before an order, right past his commanding officer to boot.

[krukow]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Is it always Ashley who kills Wrex or is it LI spesific or? O_o I've never heard of this before (Never killed Wrex period.)

It's always Ashley.  It's her character.  Romanced or not, male or female, she's very protective of Shepard.  You can hear it in her dialogue during battle (ME1/3).  It's one of the few things that carried over...

[krukow]

'd!

Back on topic:

I find it weird that so many gamers would dislike Miranda for being a member of Cerberus.  I don't like cerberus (I find their ME3 portrayal not that different from their ME1, just larger), but I see her as one of the people who were trying to do good in a bad organization if that makes sense?  She clearly doesn't retain cerberus loyalty...

Modifié par krukow, 17 août 2012 - 08:29 .

[Babi_Siha]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Miranda's got other problems, like trying to find her sister who has been kindnapped by her megalomaniacal father. I'm not sure if it's possble for her to race across the galaxy with Shepard while that's going on.

Actually, krukow is right about that. Miranda's obsession with saving her sister is not the right thing to be concerned in the middle of a war. And it would be possible to do both, she'd have the SB resources available to her and Traynor to help her sort through data, if anything I think that way she'd find Ori a lot faster, she'd be safe from Cerberus and she would be useful in the war.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 17 août 2012 - 08:34 .

[lillitheris]

krukow…

I find it weird that so many gamers would dislike Miranda for being a
member of Cerberus.  I don't like cerberus (I find their ME3 portrayal
not that different from their ME1, just larger), but I see her as one of
the people who were trying to do good in a bad organization if that
makes sense?

I don’t really want to get into That Discussion, but try this for size: substitute ‘Cerberus’ with ‘KKK’, or ‘Stormfront’, or whatever.

That’s why.

Now, it’s not inconceivable to think that maybe they actually are trying to do good, but it seems the less likely option. (It’s also somewhat of a writing failure to not address it.)

Edit: and to stave off the “didn’t know” angle: Cerberus is a known terrorist organization. As in, they’ve been in the papers identified as performing terrorist acts.

Modifié par lillitheris, 17 août 2012 - 08:34 .

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...

Now, it’s not inconceivable to think that maybe they actually are trying to do good, but it seems the less likely option. (It’s also somewhat of a writing failure to not address it.)

Naturally the Cerberus connection is controversial. And that is also positive. That isn't the same thing as saying *LoL Cerberus = awesome*. Just that it is a positive character element.

Modifié par flemm, 17 août 2012 - 08:34 .

[Ieldra]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Me and Taboo are having a discussion about this, and why fans of other characters are turned off by Miranda. We've concluded that they are incredibly intimidated by her. A lot of guys don't really like the woman who is equal to Shepard and more than likely greater. She's incredibly confidant and driven, and also competitive. A lot of them prefer the submissiveness of say Liara or Tali. People had the same problem with Sarah Walker in Chuck. They feel threatened by it. They don't understand how it's a 2 way street.

Liara is submissive? Hmm....that's unexpected. I haven't seen her romance in ME3, so can anyone clarify? Doesn't really seem appropriate for Shadow Broker-Liara.

As for Miranda; I agree, but I don't understand that attitude. Cyrus Shepard wants a woman he can admire for her achievements, and it doesn't get much bigger than bringing him back to life. In ME2, both have proven that they deserve each other's respect, and that's how it should be. 

[krukow]

lillitheris wrote...

krukow…

I find it weird that so many gamers would dislike Miranda for being a
member of Cerberus.  I don't like cerberus (I find their ME3 portrayal
not that different from their ME1, just larger), but I see her as one of
the people who were trying to do good in a bad organization if that
makes sense?

I don’t really want to get into That Discussion, but try this for size: substitute ‘Cerberus’ with ‘KKK’, or ‘Stormfront’, or whatever.

That’s why.

Now, it’s not inconceivable to think that maybe they actually are trying to do good, but it seems the less likely option. (It’s also somewhat of a writing failure to not address it.)

I don't think the KKK is a fair comparison because you join that group SPECIFICALLY because you hate, and want to harm, a different type of person than you.

A better comparison would be a **** doctor.  Not the ones at the camps, I mean one who just works as a doctor.  Healing the sick, binding up their wounds, never causing harm to anyone.  Really, their military affiliation is just a function of where they were born, so that's not their fault.  Is a **** doctor bad just because of the group the work for?

**** gonna get bleeped I bet...
****=german military in the 30's and 40's.

Modifié par krukow, 17 août 2012 - 08:37 .

[lillitheris]

flemm wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Now, it’s not inconceivable to think that maybe they actually are trying to do good, but it seems the less likely option. (It’s also somewhat of a writing failure to not address it.)

Naturally the Cerberus connection is controversial. And that is also positive. That isn't the same thing as saying *LoL Cerberus = awesome*. Just that it is a positive character element.

I understand what you mean. I don’t really think it‘s controversial enough. It’s not addressed sufficiently, which allows these “they’re really nice people” headcanons. Actually owning it brings a lot into the character.

[jtav]

I'd class Liara's ME3 romance as normal and healthy adults. Same with Tali. Neither struck me as particularly submissive.

[lillitheris]

krukow wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

krukow…

I find it weird that so many gamers would dislike Miranda for being a
member of Cerberus.  I don't like cerberus (I find their ME3 portrayal
not that different from their ME1, just larger), but I see her as one of
the people who were trying to do good in a bad organization if that
makes sense?

I don’t really want to get into That Discussion, but try this for size: substitute ‘Cerberus’ with ‘KKK’, or ‘Stormfront’, or whatever.

That’s why.

Now, it’s not inconceivable to think that maybe they actually are trying to do good, but it seems the less likely option. (It’s also somewhat of a writing failure to not address it.)

I don't think the KKK is a fair comparison because you join that group SPECIFICALLY because you hate, and want to harm, a different type of person than you.

No, it’s actually pretty accurate. If you’re interested, you can find various ‘mission statements’ and whatnot that explain that the KKK only wishes to ‘protect the interests’ and ‘do good in the community’ etc.

And, you know, there is that whole thing about doing terrorist stuff.

[krukow]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Miranda's got other problems, like trying to find her sister who has been kindnapped by her megalomaniacal father. I'm not sure if it's possble for her to race across the galaxy with Shepard while that's going on.

Actually, krukow is right about that. Miranda's obsession with saving her sister is not the right thing to be concerned in the middle of a war. And it would be possible to do both, she'd have the SB resources available to her and Traynor to help her sort through data, if anything I think that way she'd find Ori a lot faster, she'd be safe from Cerberus and she would be useful in the war.

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I'm sure Miranda would be so caught up in saving Orianna that everything else would took a back seat, including racing across the galaxy with Shepard. I know I'd be doing my damndest to find my sister if I was in that situation. How could you even fight a war when that's weighing on your mind constantly?

Most people are experiencing that.  Joker's family is at Tiptree.  Ashley's family may or may not have gotten away from Earth at the begining of the game.  Everyone is fighting this war while wondering about the safety/status of their families...

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...
I understand what you mean. I don’t really think it‘s controversial enough. It’s not addressed sufficiently, which allows these “they’re really nice people” headcanons. Actually owning it brings a lot into the character.

I think in ME2 it's fine. Miranda doesn't hide from the reality of what Cerberus is, she just has a certain view of it, and what it should be.

I don't like how the whole thing was handled in ME3.