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[Taboo]

lillitheris wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I thought about my interpretation on the dossiers a lot lately and now come to the conclusion she was just curious. She had sexual desires like everyone else and the infertility maybe added to that in a way she got curious about it.

As with many things, I think the interpretation of the dossier says a lot about the reader. Maybe more than the writer.

I never got the vibe that she was looking to get pregnant. Busy professional, casual sex, prudent about STDs. Never thought the infertility result was specifically related to wanting to have children.

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Also, her romanced death speech in ME3 kind of gives you an idea of what they mean in retrospect...

Whether or not you decide to take it seriously is up to you.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 21 août 2012 - 03:14 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miranda<3

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 21 août 2012 - 03:11 .

[Stalker]

Taboo-XX wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I thought about my interpretation on the dossiers a lot lately and now come to the conclusion she was just curious. She had sexual desires like everyone else and the infertility maybe added to that in a way she got curious about it.

As with many things, I think the interpretation of the dossier says a lot about the reader. Maybe more than the writer.

I never got the vibe that she was looking to get pregnant. Busy professional, casual sex, prudent about STDs. Never thought the infertility result was specifically related to wanting to have children.

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Also, her romanced death speech in ME3 kind of gives you an idea of what they mean in retrospect...

Whether or not you decide to take it seriously is up to you.

I don't take something serious that doesn't make sense 

I actually find the idea fitting. It's a common Human desire to want kids at some point in life and infertility really strikes as a rather tragic character attribute. I can actually imagine that buried desire in Miranda pretty well.

However, the way it was shown (dossier) doesn't make any sense: Why would she try to get children when she doesn't even want to face her own sister? Why have sex with random guys when you have a relatively giant tumor in there? Why would she do that so close around the suicide mission (SR2)?... nonsense.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 août 2012 - 03:28 .

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Which time is in question here?

[Taboo]

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't something serious that doesn't make sense 

I actually find the idea fitting. It's a common Human desire to want kids at some point in life and infertility really strikes as a rather tragic character attribute. I can actually imagine that buried desire in Miranda pretty well.

However, the way it was shown (dossier) doesn't make any sense: Why would she try to get children when she doesn't even want to face her own sister? Why have sex with random guys when you have a relatively giant tumor in there? Why would she do that so close around the suicide mission (SR2)?... nonsense.

Did you look at that picture I linked? Imagine something like that inside of her. 

I find the idea fitting as well, but the presentation is presented so poorly.

That's why I'm going to take it as an error on Bioware's part. The dossiers are full of them. They didn't fact check. The SR2 could be a mistake.

That way I can head canon that they took place years prior, before she became so high up in Cerberus. That way I can explain it as her being younger and wanting something without being experienced.

At least that way it doesn't look like she's a Time Lord with a TARDIS.

[Taboo]

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Which time is in question here?

If taken literally she's out trying to get pregnant before or during the Suicide Mission. She would have had no time in the latter and it wouldn't make sense in the former.

That's why I'm wondering if the SR2 part of her username is a mistake, like quite a few of the things in those Dossiers.

[Stalker]

Taboo-XX wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Which time is in question here?

If taken literally she's out trying to get pregnant before or during the Suicide Mission. She would have had no time in the latter and it wouldn't make sense in the former.

That's why I'm wondering if the SR2 part of her username is a mistake, like quite a few of the things in those Dossiers.

The inconsistency with the situation of her sister and the nonsense of random sex to sidestep a tumor both stay, though...

[Taboo]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Which time is in question here?

If taken literally she's out trying to get pregnant before or during the Suicide Mission. She would have had no time in the latter and it wouldn't make sense in the former.

That's why I'm wondering if the SR2 part of her username is a mistake, like quite a few of the things in those Dossiers.

The inconsistency with the situation of her sister and the nonsense of random sex to sidestep a tumor both stay, though...

That message only appers if you convince Miranda to talk to her sister.

The others are there regardless. I can understand the random sex in a desire to connect but not preganancy within that timeframe. The intent IS for pregnancy.

I can understand it happening say, ten years ago when she wasn't as high up as she was. At the time, who knows what she could have wanted.

If she dies in Santuary she tells Oriana that she wanted to give her everything she couldn't have. I would think that that desire for her is much older than two or three years. I'd like to think she'd know about the infertility way before that.

That would give her character some justification in the department of defending her sister. She can't have it for herself so she's going to make sure her sister can.

I don't even know anymore.

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Which time is in question here?

If taken literally she's out trying to get pregnant before or during the Suicide Mission. She would have had no time in the latter and it wouldn't make sense in the former.

That's why I'm wondering if the SR2 part of her username is a mistake, like quite a few of the things in those Dossiers.

No, it’s not a mistake. It’s Miranda looking for company when the Normandy is docked in those locations.

I don’t see how you can take it particularly literally. You’re reading into it if you assume she’s trying to get pregnant (or even that the data is chronologically ordered).

I’m going to ask you to provide actual citations that show that she’s trying to get pregnant.

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 août 2012 - 03:46 .

[CrutchCricket]

Issues of pregnancy aside, dating logs make more sense if they happened prior to ME2 and none if they happen during.
As for the username, it's all retarded but the Normandy SR2 was being built at the same time as Shepard and Miranda likely knew of it. "SR2" by itself would not have had much significance to anyone until the Normandy was unleashed back onto the galaxy and thus might serve as well as any other characters in creating a username.

[Taboo]

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Entirely possible. But it doesn't make sense time wise so that's the real issue.

Which time is in question here?

If taken literally she's out trying to get pregnant before or during the Suicide Mission. She would have had no time in the latter and it wouldn't make sense in the former.

That's why I'm wondering if the SR2 part of her username is a mistake, like quite a few of the things in those Dossiers.

No, it’s not a mistake. It’s Miranda looking for company when the Normandy is docked in those locations.

I don’t see how you can take it particularly literally. You’re reading into it if you assume she’s trying to get pregnant (or even that the data is chronologically ordered).

I’m going to ask you to provide actual citations that show that she’s trying to get pregnant.

We have authorial intent here AND we have her statements in ME3. You're asking me to provide evidence to support YOUR interpretation. Burden of proof.

Let's look at it that way. If this is the case we'd need to assume that she's taken the time to do this while she's out and about with everyone. If Miranda goes everywhere with you, there is no way she could have done this.

As soon as your business is concluded the ship leaves.

I really don't care what she does, the inconsistency is the issue.

And lastly, she only goes through with it once. One time. And the following email is about her infertility.

[Stalker]

Taboo-XX wrote...
That message only appers if you convince Miranda to talk to her sister.

The others are there regardless. I can understand the random sex in a desire to connect but not preganancy within that timeframe. The intent IS for pregnancy.

I can understand it happening say, ten years ago when she wasn't as high up as she was. At the time, who knows what she could have wanted.

If she dies in Santuary she tells Oriana that she wanted to give her everything she couldn't have. I would think that that desire for her is much older than two or three years. I'd like to think she'd know about the infertility way before that.

That would give her character some justification in the department of defending her sister. She can't have it for herself so she's going to make sure her sister can.

I don't even know anymore.

So... there is a far past where she tried to get pregnant, realized she is not able to, and much later turns to her sister to assure she gets it? Could make sense. 

Now we just need the SR2 scrapped, assume the infertility was revealed after the iPartner things, and an explanation why she treated those men like **** before...

lillitheris wrote..

No, it’s not a mistake. It’s Miranda looking for company when the Normandy is docked in those locations.

I don’t see how you can take it particularly literally. You’re reading into it if you assume she’s trying to get pregnant (or even that the data is chronologically ordered).

I’m going to ask you to provide actual citations that show that she’s trying to get pregnant.

It's kind of an insult to assume she was looking for sexual company while running Lazarus. That's just nonsense.

About your question. Long story short: It's the whole compilation of e-mails that makes people think about pregnancy: ordering relationship-advice book, getting to know about infertility, meet random sex partners.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

We have authorial intent here

What authorial intent?

AND we have her statements in ME3.

Which statements?  (Edit: also, those could have been written specifically to support an emergent interpretation, since they were introduced later… Whatever they are, that is.)

You're asking me to provide evidence to support YOUR interpretation. Burden of proof.

Yes, you’re asserting that she does something for a reason, you should provide proof.

Let's look at it that way. If this is the case we'd need to assume that she's taken the time to do this while she's out and about with everyone. If Miranda goes everywhere with you, there is no way she could have done this.

Do what?

As soon as your business is concluded the ship leaves.

Sure. I think this is fudged to assume there’s always some downtime docked.

And lastly, she only goes through with it once. One time. And the following email is about her infertility.

Through what? You’re also assuming chronology. And you’re assuming that she went to the doctor about infertility.

Let’s say that the doctor mail actually is after the encounter: what if something happened? Unusual sensations, pain, bleeding? Prudent woman goes to the doctor, they find out there’s a tumor or whatever.

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 août 2012 - 04:09 .

[lillitheris]

Mr Massakka wrote...

lillitheris wrote..

No, it’s not a mistake. It’s Miranda looking for company when the Normandy is docked in those locations.

I don’t see how you can take it particularly literally. You’re reading into it if you assume she’s trying to get pregnant (or even that the data is chronologically ordered).

I’m going to ask you to provide actual citations that show that she’s trying to get pregnant.

It's kind of an insult to assume she was looking for sexual company while running Lazarus. That's just nonsense.

It’s kind of insulting that you don’t think women should have sex while they’re working? What is it you’re trying to say here?

(Also, I’m not sure what you mean by Lazarus, but I was referring to when Shep and crew fly to, you know, Omega and Illium? Though I don’t see anything wrong with having sex while Lazarus is ongoing, either…)

Long story short: It's the whole compilation of e-mails that makes people think about pregnancy: ordering relationship-advice book, getting to know about infertility, meet random sex partners.

I certainly can’t dispute that it makes people think that. I’m just saying that maybe it shouldn’t!

Now, if you wish to believe that it is about pregnancy, that’s perfectly fine. If you want to claim that as a fact, then I need some proof.

Edit: if I were mean—and I am—I would suggest that one possible explanation is that the thought of a woman seeking casual sexual encounters is foreign enough to be immediately dismissed, leading to the ‘pregnancy theory’.

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 août 2012 - 04:07 .

[Skullheart]

Maybe whoever wrote her dossier dislikes the character and wanted to troll her fanbase.

[Taboo]

Look at the way the emails are constructed. All lead up to one, ONE, sexual encounter. All others are turned down on the basis of simply wanting pictures or being ill. If she wanted sex she'd **** the first person able. That's what people who want sex do.

She states in ME3 that all she ever really wanted was a family and children. She can't so she ensures that Oriana can. "Things I could never have..."

The tumor is located within the Uterus, NOT the vaginal cavity. Had it been in there she would have known something was up long before she was planning sexual encounters. She's thirty six. If she was having vaginal pain and bleeding OUTSIDE of her menstrual cycle she would have done something. She's smart enough to know that it isn't normal.

I'd post a picture but it's far too graphic.

If you take Miranda one very missions she has no time to do anything. The Normandy LEAVES the planet when you go back on board. I would think that people would notice if she was leaving all the ****ing time. Furthermore there is no way she could have done so.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 21 août 2012 - 04:11 .

[krukow]

I really think it's clear Miranda's just looking for a baby daddy. If she was looking for companionship or sex, she would have asked them anything about what they looked like or themselves. She asks them none of this. She simply was a genetic history to make sure her baby is healthy.

I know Taboo thinks Mirada is the girl version of Fassbender from Shame, but really, I think she would at least want to check and make sure she's attracted to someone before bedding them, if that was her goal. The majority of human beings want a picture of someone before they meet. So either Miranda is a raging tramp, or she just needs a donor.

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

I really think it's clear Miranda's just looking for a baby daddy. If she was looking for companionship or sex, she would have asked them anything about what they looked like or themselves. She asks them none of this. She simply was a genetic history to make sure her baby is healthy.

I know Taboo thinks Mirada is the girl version of Fassbender from Shame, but really, I think she would at least want to check and make sure she's attracted to someone before bedding them, if that was her goal. The majority of human beings want a picture of someone before they meet. So either Miranda is a raging tramp, or she just needs a donor.

If they were casual sex encounters she wouldn't ask for information.

What she was doing was simply SAFER than sleeping with a random man she met on Omega to get preganant.

This way she can make sure everything is safe and that the baby will be healthy.

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Look at the way the emails are constructed. Really simple dear. Real simple. All lead up to one, ONE, sexual encounter. All others are turned down on the basis of simply wanting pictures or being ill. If she wanted sex she'd **** the first person able. That's what people who want sex do.

…No, they don’t. People tend to have sex with people they find attractive. Ideally, anyway. Also, ideally, people with no STDs.

She turns down idiots, romantics, and the unclean. She knows what she wants.

She states in ME3 that all she ever really wanted was a family and children. She can't so she ensures that Oriana can. "Things I could never have..."

Ah, interesting. I’ll have to look it up!

The tumor is located within the Uterus, NOT the vaginal cavity. Had it been in there she would have known something was up long before she was planning sexual encounters. She's thirty six. If she was having vaginal pain and bleeding OUTSIDE of her menstrual cycle she would have done something. She's smart enough to know that it isn't normal.

And? I don’t see how you can categorically say she would have known anything before planning anything. Or maybe she just started having pain?

(And, once again, this assumes the emails are in chronological order, which is not clear.)

If you take Miranda one very missions she has no time to do anything. The Normandy LEAVES the planet when you go back on board. I would think that people would notice if she was leaving all the ****ing time. Furthermore there is no way she could have done so.

Shore leave.

[krukow]

Taboo, I will always completely disagree with you on this. Even for a no-strings one-time thing, a person like Miranda is going to want to make sure the other person is at least attractive (if the sex is the point). She's not Shame Fassbender, she's almost a semi-normal person, and that's what people do.

The fact that she didn't is the biggest arguement that the sex wasn't the point.

Also, I like the earlier post that suggested the dossier was created just to troll you mirimancers. It's sad, but totally possible...

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

If they were casual sex encounters she wouldn't ask for information.

This literally boggles my mind.

Do you seriously imagine that a woman goes to, let’s say, OkCupid, and just picks the first dude?

[wright1978]

Taboo-XX wrote...

If they were casual sex encounters she wouldn't ask for information.

What she was doing was simply SAFER than sleeping with a random man she met on Omega to get preganant.

This way she can make sure everything is safe and that the baby will be healthy.

Apart from the obvious patently ridiculous method to achieve that end.

[Stalker]

lillitheris wrote..
It’s kind of insulting that you don’t think women should have sex while they’re working? What is it you’re trying to say here?

(Also, I’m not sure what you mean by Lazarus, but I was referring to when Shep and crew fly to, you know, Omega and Illium? Though I don’t see anything wrong with having sex while Lazarus is ongoing, either…)

"Lazarus" is still running with a living Shepard.

And yes, she shouldn't have sex while on missions there.
Not only that it doesn't make sense time-wise because Normandy is just "go there, do mission, leave".
She has that attitude "mission comes first", yet she rents apartments to spend nights with random guys off the ship?
And all that even while attempting her first serious relationship with Shepard?... That's the insulting part

lillitheris wrote..
I certainly can’t dispute that it makes people think that. I’m just saying that maybe it shouldn’t!

Now, if you wish to believe that it is about pregnancy, that’s perfectly fine. If you want to claim that as a fact, then I need some proof.

Edit: if I were mean—and I am—I would suggest that one possible explanation is that the thought of a woman seeking casual sexual encounters is foreign enough to be immediately dismissed, leading to the ‘pregnancy theory’.

I am not accepting that she wants to get pregnant either, but I still believe it was the writer's intent. All the snippets are there to form a pretty clear picture about that. It's just that the facts don't match up there.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 août 2012 - 04:22 .

[lillitheris]

This is fascinating, as my favorite scientist would say…

[lillitheris]

Mr Massakka wrote...

"Lazarus" is still running with a living Shepard.

And yes, she shouldn't have sex while on missions there.

I categorically disagree with this, although I do assume the next:

Not only that it doesn't make sense time-wise because Normandy is just "go there, do mission, leave".

That’s a good point, but I’m going to say that there is shore leave implied. I don’t recall if that’s actually discussed at some point. One of the minor characters, maybe?

But given that there is some downtime (for whatever reason), I see absolutely no reason to cast judgment on her for however she chooses to spend that time.
 

She has that attitude "mission comes first", yet she rents apartments to spend nights with random guys off the ship?

It doesn’t seem like she’s spending more than hours, at most.

And all that even while attempting her first serious relationship with Shepard?... That's the insulting part

These would seem to be before that relationship gets anywhere.

I am not accepting that she wants to get pregnant either, but I still believe it was the writer's intent. All the snippets are there to form a pretty clear picture about that.

They can certainly be read that way. I personally don’t think it’s the natural implication.