82210 réponses à ce sujet

[krukow]

Even if she didn't know, that's HER FAULT. She's the XO of an organization. What happens under her is her responsibility, wether she's dilligent in her duty or not.

Adorable top miri cuz we're all still friends

Modifié par krukow, 23 août 2012 - 06:29 .

[Taboo]

lillitheris wrote...

Ooh, neat, the “Cerberus is composed of cells so all those verified and widely publicized cases of their terrorist activities don’t count” argument.

Miranda knew. Maybe not details, but she knew.

Of course. So did members of the IRA.

Not everyone in there supported bombing buildings and killing innocents.

Some merely wanted freedom. They were overshadowed by the more extremist views.

Sociology is a fasinating topic.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...
 She's saying the facility went rogue, and thus doesn't count as Cerberus. 

Arguably the line can be interpreted either way, or a little of both. I tend to think it's slanted a little more toward "that isn't what the organisation is really about."

The facility has already been destroyed.

krukow wrote...
She's the XO of an organization.

Cerberus doesn't have an XO. She's a high-ranking operative who has led certain cells, and is XO of the SR2.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2012 - 06:31 .

[krukow]

flemm wrote...

krukow wrote...
 She's saying the facility went rogue, and thus doesn't count as Cerberus. 

Arguably the line can be interpreted either way, or a little of both. I tend to think it's slanted a little more toward "that isn't what the organisation is really about."

The facility has already been destroyed.

Doesn't undo what happened.  Miranda needs to step up as a high ranking official and admit what happened was wrong.  That's all.

Edit: I was apparently wrong, she's no XO.

Modifié par krukow, 23 août 2012 - 06:33 .

[Taboo]

That's my screengrab! And it's a good one.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...
 Miranda needs to step up as XO and admit what happened was wrong. 

She *has* admitted it at that point. And never denied it, in fact. You can take her on the mission.

Jack is threatening her. It's "Apologise, or else." basically. There is no reason why she should back down when confronted in that way.

Which isn't to say that she couldn't have handled it better.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2012 - 06:34 .

[krukow]

flemm wrote...

krukow wrote...
 Miranda needs to step up as XO and admit what happened was wrong. 

She *has* admitted it at that point. And never denied it, in fact. You can take her on the mission.

Jack: She won't admit that what Cerberus did to me was wrong.
Miranda: It wasn't Cerberus.  Not really.

[Skullheart]

Miranda wasn't part of that cell, and I doubt she was trusted enough at that time to know about othercells (she should be like 20-24 when the Teltin cell was active).

And that cell was rogue; forgering reports, not following the Cerberus protocols, etc.

She isn't responsible for whatever that Cell did to Jack.

[krukow]

Skullheart wrote...

Miranda wasn't part of that cell, and I doubt she was trusted enough at that time to know about othercells (she should be like 20-24 when the Teltin cell was active).

And that cell was rogue; forgering reports, not following the Cerberus protocols, etc.

She isn't responsible for whatever that Cell did to Jack.

Cerberus is though.  And Miranda won't admit it, she keeps trying to pretend "going rogue" cleans cerberus' hands.  Cerberus is responsible for what their people, in their facilities, with their money, did.

Miri isn't directly responsible (and I was wrong about XO), but she's wrong to pretend Cerberus isn't at fault.

[krukow]

I'll stop now. Miri question (from either head canon or if it's been established):

When she joined up, how do you think Cerberus used her at first? Field operative? Project manager? What was her first assignment type?

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

Well, Miranda doesn't really lash out until she feels directly threatened. But... I don't think it's really surprising that she would have little patience for Jack at that point. Jack has never been respectful of her, and Miranda herself is no doubt troubled by what she saw at the facility.

Miranda could have handled it better, but... it's a realistic mistake on her part, I think. I prefer to neutralise the dispute via persuade options.

I don't like the persuade options. So I side with Miranda (and I even find this option too gentle considering Jack's threat against Miranda).

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 août 2012 - 06:40 .

[wright1978]

krukow wrote...

flemm wrote...

krukow wrote...
 Miranda needs to step up as XO and admit what happened was wrong. 

She *has* admitted it at that point. And never denied it, in fact. You can take her on the mission.

Jack: She won't admit that what Cerberus did to me was wrong.
Miranda: It wasn't Cerberus.  Not really.

Jack wants Miranda to admit that it really was Cerberus and not a rogue cell. Evidence in ME2 suggests Teltin was rogue and Miranda readily admits what went on at Teltin is wrong. Jack won't settle for anything else other than a fight. Me3 might suggest maybe TIM might have privately supported such operations whilst publicly denouncing them but that's judging with hindsight not facts at Miranda and jack's fintertips.

Modifié par wright1978, 23 août 2012 - 06:39 .

[flemm]

krukow wrote...
Jack: She won't admit that what Cerberus did to me was wrong.
Miranda: It wasn't Cerberus.  Not really.

And?

What happened there was wrong. Nobody disagrees on that. The facility has been destroyed (by a Cerberus ship and crew, though I will grant you that there is some roleplay wiggle room there). The cell had gone rogue and was apparently no longer acting under orders. 

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2012 - 06:40 .

[krukow]

flemm wrote...

krukow wrote...
Jack: She won't admit that what Cerberus did to me was wrong.
Miranda: It wasn't Cerberus.  Not really.

And?

What happened there was wrong. Nobody disagrees on that. The facility has been destroyed (by a Cerberus ship and crew, though I will grant you that there is some roleplay wiggle room there). The cell had gone rogue and was apparently no longer acting under orders. 

That.  Doesn't.  Matter.
You are responsible for the actions of your subordinates.  This is true in both military and business.  Cerberus had a responsibility to monitor what was going on and they were very (VERY) negligent.  They also hired the people who lied to them.  They also built the facility.  They also gave them the money neccessary to fly all those kids in and do stuff.

It's Cerberus' fault.

Argh!  Okay, I'll stop now, I promise.

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

I'll stop now. Miri question (from either head canon or if it's been established):

When she joined up, how do you think Cerberus used her at first? Field operative? Project manager? What was her first assignment type?

It took her twenty years to get to her position. She'd have to work her way up. Grunt to where she is now.

With TIMs real plans revealed in ME3 it looks like he didn't much care if she made it back from the SM or not. That's rather troubling.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...
It's Cerberus' fault.

I don't disagree with that. As I've already said, Miranda could doubtless have handled the situation better. Or at least she could have tried. But Jack probably wanted a confrontation regardless. If Miranda apologises, then that would probably not have been enough. That is why Miranda cannot be expected to back down in that situation.

They weren't having a reasoned discussion over tea.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2012 - 06:47 .

[Taboo]

Distraction! Look at this distracting POV shot!

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Distraction! Look at this distracting POV shot!

....:innocent:<3

[lillitheris]

Basically all Cerberus cells are ‘rogue’. That tells you pretty much all you need to know.

Miranda’s smart.

[Taboo]

lillitheris wrote...

Basically all Cerberus cells are ‘rogue’. That tells you pretty much all you need to know.

Miranda’s smart.

But that doesn't mean her views match the others. She simply buries it. THAT isn't good.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 23 août 2012 - 06:52 .

[flemm]

lillitheris wrote...

Basically all Cerberus cells are ‘rogue’. That tells you pretty much all you need to know.

Miranda’s smart.

Sure, one can look at it that way. In which case that would be one reason to side with jack, I guess. It's not a reason to expect Miranda to behave any differently, though.

[krukow]

You know what would have been cool? Instead of the "miri sleeps around and is probably cheating on you but can't have kids" dossier stuff, some sort of emails that either made it clear that she did know about pragia, or various emails that made it clear TIM was hiding things like Pragia and Admiral Karakhou (spelling, whatever) from her. Either one would have been interesting...

[Taboo]

^ She already knew about certain things. She simply buries it in the back of her head and tries to justify it.

Not a good thing to do.

[hot_heart]

Yeah. I saw part of it as denial/rationalisation. Doesn't make it right, but it makes it interesting.

Of course, there is a line...

[lillitheris]

flemm wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Basically all Cerberus cells are ‘rogue’. That tells you pretty much all you need to know.

Miranda’s smart.

Sure, one can look at it that way. In which case that would be one reason to side with jack, I guess. It's not a reason to expect Miranda to behave any differently, though.

It’s not about Jack, in my opinion.